[Eval Riz]

Interesting article, however I think it's answered in a clever way which hides the negatives of what is in my opinion unfair gameplay. Like all arguments there is 2 sides to the story, and this side just doesn't justify imo merch clans.

When an item spikes there will always be someone who loses the wealth from the top of the spike, back to the bottom...Just like when a rollercoaster goes up, it has to go back down.

Merch clans manipulate the economy, that's all they are really, manipulators, create a fake demand which pushes all those who actually *need* the items to pay a heavy price -- or it prevents them from actually training/bossing/whatever, which is really in the spirit of the game, those community friendly ge spammers merch clans.

You make some fair points; however, you also have to consider some exterior effects.

One of your points was that merchanting clans can ruin bossing and the spirit of the game. I agree. It can. But there are normally also many alternatives, and merches only last a few weeks, so other players can just wait. For example, Beserker Necklaces (current item). You caneasily use a fury for a while, and those who get it as a drop will be happy. Sure, some will get annoyed, but they can just buy again in a few weeks.

There are other circumstances, in which case Smokin Mils truly does take the right stand. Look at prayer potions. There is no alternative and they are high in demand. As a result, it totally interrupted gameplay and enjoyment. Smokin Mils recognized this an dumped early, the ranks even taking a large part of the hit, not the members (although they did, too).

Sure, it's manipulation, but they have the right attitude.

[Choccy]

Interesting article, however I think it's answered in a clever way which hides the negatives of what is in my opinion unfair gameplay. Like all arguments there is 2 sides to the story, and this side just doesn't justify imo merch clans.

When an item spikes there will always be someone who loses the wealth from the top of the spike, back to the bottom...Just like when a rollercoaster goes up, it has to go back down.

Merch clans manipulate the economy, that's all they are really, manipulators, create a fake demand which pushes all those who actually *need* the items to pay a heavy price -- or it prevents them from actually training/bossing/whatever, which is really in the spirit of the game, those community friendly ge spammers merch clans.

You make some fair points; however, you also have to consider some exterior effects.

One of your points was that merchanting clans can ruin bossing and the spirit of the game. I agree. It can. But there are normally also many alternatives, and merches only last a few weeks, so other players can just wait. For example, Beserker Necklaces (current item). You caneasily use a fury for a while, and those who get it as a drop will be happy. Sure, some will get annoyed, but they can just buy again in a few weeks.

There are other circumstances, in which case Smokin Mils truly does take the right stand. Look at prayer potions. There is no alternative and they are high in demand. As a result, it totally interrupted gameplay and enjoyment. Smokin Mils recognized this an dumped early, the ranks even taking a large part of the hit, not the members (although they did, too).

Sure, it's manipulation, but they have the right attitude.

So the justification of merch clans is that they don't disrupt degrade the game as much as they possibly could? Why should I have to wait a few weeks to buy something that should be in reasonable supply? There is no way of justifying merch clans, they make money through manipulation of money and items in which the ordinary player will loose out. It simply degrades the game and has a completely negative impact on the community.

And why are they doing it? Money junkies is the term that comes to mind, when you have more than a billion gp, why do you need more? ..Especially at the expense of the ordinary player?

This post has been edited by Choccy: Nov 18 2009, 10:18 AM

[Mohorak]

Just deal with it for a few weeks. Usually it's something that people don't use a lot. For instance, granite maces went up to 75k each not too long ago, and very few people actually use that weapon. But I made about 300k just camping out at the Bandos Throne Room in an HOUR, getting 4 granite maces, then selling them instantly on the G.E.

This post has been edited by Mohorak: Nov 18 2009, 10:20 AM

[Choccy]

Just deal with it for a few weeks. Usually it's something that people don't use a lot. For instance, granite maces went up to 75k each not too long ago, and very few people actually use that weapon. But I made about 300k just camping out at the Bandos Throne Room in an HOUR, getting 4 granite maces, then selling them instantly on the G.E.

The point is WHY should I have to deal with it? Why do people with alot of money have the power to prevent me from doing certain things or make me waste my time doing something slower? There is no justification to manipulation other than to make money for me, my friends and clan - at the expense of the general pop. So that's why this interview,which paints a rosy picture of merch clans, is very deceiving.

This post has been edited by Choccy: Nov 18 2009, 10:25 AM

[Mohorak]

Just deal with it for a few weeks. Usually it's something that people don't use a lot. For instance, granite maces went up to 75k each not too long ago, and very few people actually use that weapon. But I made about 300k just camping out at the Bandos Throne Room in an HOUR, getting 4 granite maces, then selling them instantly on the G.E.

The point is WHY should I have to deal with it? Why do people with alot of money have the power to prevent me from doing certain things or make me waste my time doing something slower? There is no justification to manipulation other than to make money for me, my friends and clan - at the expense of the general pop. So that's why this interview,which paints a rosy picture of merch clans, is very deceiving.

People with a lot of money will ALWAYS have the upper hand. You're going to have to accept that sooner or later. It happens in real life too, so you're going to have to deal with it.

[Choccy]

Just deal with it for a few weeks. Usually it's something that people don't use a lot. For instance, granite maces went up to 75k each not too long ago, and very few people actually use that weapon. But I made about 300k just camping out at the Bandos Throne Room in an HOUR, getting 4 granite maces, then selling them instantly on the G.E.

The point is WHY should I have to deal with it? Why do people with alot of money have the power to prevent me from doing certain things or make me waste my time doing something slower? There is no justification to manipulation other than to make money for me, my friends and clan - at the expense of the general pop. So that's why this interview,which paints a rosy picture of merch clans, is very deceiving.

People with a lot of money will ALWAYS have the upper hand. You're going to have to accept that sooner or later. It happens in real life too, so you're going to have to deal with it.

My point exactly, they have the upper hand to manipulate, and they do, therefore how can they be justified to abuse their power of "wealth"?

[Mohorak]

Just deal with it for a few weeks. Usually it's something that people don't use a lot. For instance, granite maces went up to 75k each not too long ago, and very few people actually use that weapon. But I made about 300k just camping out at the Bandos Throne Room in an HOUR, getting 4 granite maces, then selling them instantly on the G.E.

The point is WHY should I have to deal with it? Why do people with alot of money have the power to prevent me from doing certain things or make me waste my time doing something slower? There is no justification to manipulation other than to make money for me, my friends and clan - at the expense of the general pop. So that's why this interview,which paints a rosy picture of merch clans, is very deceiving.

People with a lot of money will ALWAYS have the upper hand. You're going to have to accept that sooner or later. It happens in real life too, so you're going to have to deal with it.

My point exactly, they have the upper hand to manipulate, and they do, therefore how can they be justified to abuse their power of "wealth"?

What else would they use their money on? They don't skill with it...

[Eval Riz]

It's not much different than the stock market, although you are tight. Manipulating the stock market is illegal. You don't have to buy it when it's low. They're just investing in something they already know will rise.

If you've been wanting to buy stock with apple and then it shoots up, you missed your chance and can get it again when, or even in this case if it goes down, or risk buying it high.

[Egghebrecht]

Just deal with it for a few weeks. Usually it's something that people don't use a lot. For instance, granite maces went up to 75k each not too long ago, and very few people actually use that weapon. But I made about 300k just camping out at the Bandos Throne Room in an HOUR, getting 4 granite maces, then selling them instantly on the G.E.

The point is WHY should I have to deal with it? Why do people with alot of money have the power to prevent me from doing certain things or make me waste my time doing something slower? There is no justification to manipulation other than to make money for me, my friends and clan - at the expense of the general pop. So that's why this interview,which paints a rosy picture of merch clans, is very deceiving.

People with a lot of money will ALWAYS have the upper hand. You're going to have to accept that sooner or later. It happens in real life too, so you're going to have to deal with it.

My point exactly, they have the upper hand to manipulate, and they do, therefore how can they be justified to abuse their power of "wealth"?

because that is how a capitalistic system works

i must say i like the controversy this creates

it might make all lot of people think twice about saying that capitalism is a good and honest system...

This post has been edited by Egghebrecht: Nov 19 2009, 03:14 AM

[Simple013]

Just deal with it for a few weeks. Usually it's something that people don't use a lot. For instance, granite maces went up to 75k each not too long ago, and very few people actually use that weapon. But I made about 300k just camping out at the Bandos Throne Room in an HOUR, getting 4 granite maces, then selling them instantly on the G.E.

The point is WHY should I have to deal with it? Why do people with alot of money have the power to prevent me from doing certain things or make me waste my time doing something slower? There is no justification to manipulation other than to make money for me, my friends and clan - at the expense of the general pop. So that's why this interview,which paints a rosy picture of merch clans, is very deceiving.

People with a lot of money will ALWAYS have the upper hand. You're going to have to accept that sooner or later. It happens in real life too, so you're going to have to deal with it.

My point exactly, they have the upper hand to manipulate, and they do, therefore how can they be justified to abuse their power of "wealth"?

because that is how a capitalistic system works

i must say i like the controversy this creates

it might make all lot of people think twice about saying that capitalism is a good and honest system...

Sadly no, it won't have an influence on how people think. Why this remark? If the latest financial crash didn't wake people up a minor thing like an MMO won't change it either. People still think it is ok to make a lot of cash. But at the end of the day someone has to pay the price.

At present the 'western world' is paying for its greed, shown in the last few centuries. Who is profiting? Well, not those who should, but those copying the system we have: China, Russia, India. And of course people will say there are still a lot of poor people in those countries. Yup, right. But the core of the capitalist system is flawed: Someone HAS to pay the price. You cannot have economic growth in every place. It won't wash.

[Egghebrecht]

Just deal with it for a few weeks. Usually it's something that people don't use a lot. For instance, granite maces went up to 75k each not too long ago, and very few people actually use that weapon. But I made about 300k just camping out at the Bandos Throne Room in an HOUR, getting 4 granite maces, then selling them instantly on the G.E.

The point is WHY should I have to deal with it? Why do people with alot of money have the power to prevent me from doing certain things or make me waste my time doing something slower? There is no justification to manipulation other than to make money for me, my friends and clan - at the expense of the general pop. So that's why this interview,which paints a rosy picture of merch clans, is very deceiving.

People with a lot of money will ALWAYS have the upper hand. You're going to have to accept that sooner or later. It happens in real life too, so you're going to have to deal with it.

My point exactly, they have the upper hand to manipulate, and they do, therefore how can they be justified to abuse their power of "wealth"?

because that is how a capitalistic system works

i must say i like the controversy this creates

it might make all lot of people think twice about saying that capitalism is a good and honest system...

Sadly no, it won't have an influence on how people think. Why this remark? If the latest financial crash didn't wake people up a minor thing like an MMO won't change it either. People still think it is ok to make a lot of cash. But at the end of the day someone has to pay the price.

At present the 'western world' is paying for its greed, shown in the last few centuries. Who is profiting? Well, not those who should, but those copying the system we have: China, Russia, India. And of course people will say there are still a lot of poor people in those countries. Yup, right. But the core of the capitalist system is flawed: Someone HAS to pay the price. You cannot have economic growth in every place. It won't wash.

i was referring to those handful of people here on sals who keep bashing "socialism" in the debate room
it's a nice example for them since they aren't on the receiving end in rs clearly since they whine about it

[Mohorak]

It's certainly better to have a capitalist system on RS than one where you aren't allowed to have your own stuff (even though Jagex is more of a socialist society, as you don't own ANYTHING in RuneScape in real life).

This post has been edited by Mohorak: Nov 19 2009, 01:49 PM