[Sparhawke]

Some time ago I was at the Grand Exchange chatting with others about merchant clans and ended up speaking with one of the high rankers of one of the largest, things progressed for an hour and it quickly became apparent that we both had sides that had never before been allowed to come to the surface, I questioned him for a while, he questioned me and it was in these small beginnings that this interview was born. Much has been said about merchant clans yet no fansite has before tried to get someone to talk beyond a few soundbites spoken hastily ingame, until now.

A few e-mails were exchanged, questions thought up or simply pinched from others while they weren't looking and sent off...a week or two later here we are for your reading pleasure, an exclusive with the leader of Smokin' Mils himself, Mr J Rune

Hi there, I am Sparhawke of Sals Realm, a former forum admin and current forum mod...we would love to do an interview with you sometime for mutual benefit. I have spoken to Randydrew/Abby ingame and we both agree it could help us greatly

(I will post a link to a picture of the mask doing his patented "Sch'mokin!!" image in my siggy to prove I am indeed who I say I am)

Of course we have to be utterly impartial but I hope this will be an opportunity for both of us to get our points across and allow you to answer your critics and maybe gain new fans as we gain new readers, please consider our offer and accept our thanks for allowing us this rare opportunity

We at Sals Realm eagerly await your reply

Hi, Mr J Rune here

I agree that an interview would be mutually beneficial and I would appreciate the opportunity to answer any questions Sals Realm might have for me. It will be good to give RS players more detailed information on how our clan works and perhaps how we are different to other merchanting clans. I won't be avoiding any questions at all so feel free to ask whatever you like

I look forward to the interview!

Regards,
Mr J Rune

Obviously this interview is going to strike a nerve with a lot of people but we felt that shouldn't stop us asking the questions many wanted answering. It should be noted here that these questions were as we sent them and have not been doctored to place S.Mils in a favourable light nor J Runes answers have been changed in any way to make them look like the Devil. As they appear here are the way they were sent, written and then e-mailed back to me.

He was true to his word that he would answer anything we threw at him.

Sals Realm is entirely impartial in this and simply asking the questions, we cannot endorse any clan particularly over another whether it be for fighting, pking, skilling or money making. What you invest in items is to your own risk and as prices fall, they can go up too.

How and when did you come across Runescape?

A friend introduced me many years ago. I liked the variety of activities available in game. I quit years ago and then returned in June 2009 with a new account (my current main).

What did you do before the GE came about, were you usually found in the Pking spots hawking sharks and potions or were you a partyhat trader?

On an old account I would trade partyhats and rares, and just generally look for any good deals available I loved the activity of merchanting more than anything else in game.

How many hours per day do you play?

Currently real life only allows me to play the game about 1 hour a day, but I dedicate about 2 hours a day to managing the clan on our forum.

What do you do in real life, are you at school, college or work?

I in the final year of my physics degree in England

Beyond making money, are you often to be found quietly fishing, woodcutting or hacking players heads off in the wilderness?

Surprisingly I don't play the actual game all that much But I do dabble in the occasional bit of skilling or questing. It's a little embarrassing but I only have one level 99!

What do you do besides Runescape, do you watch television, listen to music or do you simply read forums?

I like to go out, but while home I always have the television or some music on, and I spend a lot of time checking forums too. Some of my favorite shows are The Unit, CSI, and Family Guy. My Music taste varies greatly

What is the funniest rumor you have heard about yourself, and how long did it take you from first starting it to others believing it? lol

There have been quite a few rumors about me and the clan... but the funniest must have been the one about me being in a real life relationship with the female leader of a rival clan The rumor probably only existed for a few days and I don't think it lasted very long

When you put on public chat how long is it before you can start moving and walking about normally again with the spam messages flooding through or do you not get that?

I've put on public chat for 'Smokin Mils' account a few times and it seems to produce a constant flood of 50% praise, 10% criticism, and 40% begging for a rank . Having a conversation with pm on would be impossible.

How much are you worth? lol

I am currently worth 5.7 billion gp on my main account.

Is your goal mentality somewhat like that of a skiller; just to keep going and see how long it takes to own every gold coin in Runescape?

I thoroughly enjoy the activity of merchanting and running the clan, and I don't have any 'end' goal in mind in terms of wealth. I just keep going for the fun of it . I am not nearly as profit orientated as I used to be because I can afford anything that I would ever need in game. Now it is mostly for the fun.

What actually made you get up one day and realize that creating spontaneous demand for an item would be a great way to make prices rise and therefore profits?

I discovered the power of clan manipulation when I was introduced to a merch clan through a friend. I enjoyed being part of the clan and quickly made friends and learned a lot about the secrets of the grand exchange.

Do you ever wish the maximum possible money stack would progress beyond 2.147bil or is it satisfying being able to say you have multiple stacks?

It would make things slightly more convenient if they raised the max cash, but it doesn't bother me all that much although I suppose it is a little satisfying to see the 'You cannot show that much in trade' message

What was the inspiration behind making a publicly known clan that anyone can join through the chat system rather than a group of like-minded merchants who had proved themselves in the market which would simply work independently of each other?

A powerful public merch clan has the ability to manipulate high-volume items by their maximum amounts each day, which results in an extremely high rate of income. I still partake in all other forms of merchanting and I would consider my friends and other ranks a "group of like-minded merchants" who share info to help each other in many ways, but the clan item brings in the most income.

What do you think of other merch clans or do you prefer to get on with your thing and let them get on with theirs, do you think too many are springing up constantly seemingly every week so that people simply go to the biggest and most well known?

There is inevitably some interaction between us and other clans, but I generally try to avoid being involved in their business. I don't worry about all the new clans springing up because they generally take about a week to die, or have little to no effect on the market if they survive.

Many questions have been raised about the mass advertisement from accounts set up with auto-bots, not just from your merch clan but all of them...can you comment on this from your side?

I can understand the fact that it may be annoying to some players seeing the advertising every time the go to the G.E. in some worlds. Our clan only uses 7-8 advertising accounts, and players can add them to their ignore list to mute them permanently.

There are of course advocates for both sides to the story, but all people really want to know are the numbers when everything else is stripped away. How much money does your clan actually make for a normal Joe on the street who happens to have randomly joined your clan one day?

I was an 'average joe' in a clan for many months before creating a clan. If I assume that an average joe is willing to invest 5m cash and logs into RS nearly every day then I would estimate they would make about 2-4m profit per merch, which would increase exponentially as their wealth increases. They could make much more if they are skilled at 'junk trading'.

Are there ever going to be plans to allow people to talk in the clanchat, or one set up specifically so that others can chat or do you think that would invite too much arguing and flaming from both sides, for and against?

We had an unmuted chat that members could join, but unfortunately we were never able to moderate it effectively enough to stop all the recruiting and planned attacks from other clans. It was disorganized and damaging to the clan and we have no plans to create an unmuted chat in the future, which is unfortunate because I do enjoy chatting directly to the people in the cc

If you had to guess, what average profit margin would you say an average Joe on the street would be happy with before he bottles it and sells out?

The general trend is that people sell when an item reaches a 100% price rise, but Smokin Mils broke that trend a long time ago and many people choose us because of our regular 200%+ price rises.

Do you sometimes find yourself merching the same items or very similar with other clans and how do you react to this?
We would know if we happened to be merchanting the same item as another clan and we would end the merch before it got started if it ever happened.

Do you find your fame at merchanting makes things easier or harder for you with people wanting to sell items or simply figure out that it must be your next merch?

I would never trade for the clan item before a merch has began. I don't think my fame has a big effect on how players trade with me, although I do get players opening trade screens for the sole purpose of asking for a rank, which can be a little annoying .

There must be a richlist leaderboard somewhere out there, how do the top richest compared each other, or is it a case of he or she with the biggest stack of partyhats is the winner?

The richest of the rich tend to keep their wealth a secret for security reasons, but when they do compare then it is normally based on the market price of their total wealth. However you do get the occasional player with an insanely large stack of an extremely rare and rising item like pumpkins or half wines, and the 'street value' of their wealth would be factored in. Believe it or not, there are some players out there worth 50b+.

How do you feel about Jagex' hints that they will quash merchant clans somehow in future updates, are you worried or do you feel that somehow you will be able to adapt?

I believe that there would be a way around any attempts by Jagex to alter the way the G.E. works. In fact I believe that they have made some recent unsuccessful attempts (notice strange anomalies such as purple partyhat dropping in price while still being in high demand). Players will always control the market - whether it be natural or organized, the market will fluctuate and profit will be made off of it.

How is the company structured now compared to when you first began, you state that no new ranks are created at this time...is this a permanent trend or will people be promoted to higher ranks for performing tasks other than spam advertising in every world?

We recently made big changes to the structure of the clan. We now have a three level system with Generals, Managers, and ranks. Managers will be responsible for a group of 10 ranks, and Generals will keep things running from the top. We never have and never will grant ranks solely for advertising. We rank based on skill at and passion for merchanting, and skill at junk trading (which is essential in a clan that forces all its ranks to hold their items until after the merch).

With some hard to acquire and expensive items being popular to "merch" are you now feeling the pressure to choose things with a low inherent value that can be player created that might also have some real application if things go belly up so that not too much money is lost as these can be used for other areas of the game?

We don't base our choices on whether or not the items can be used by us after a merch. We don't worry about money loss because we are all skilled traders (every rank is a pre-GE merchant) and we have no problem converting items to cash through trade.

We put a lot of thought into all the items we merch. The following requirements must be met:
1) Reasonably large market volume
2) Affordable to non-ranked members of the clan
3) Cannot be produced for over ~300k/hr profit by the end of the merch
4) Has good liquidity (can be sold slowly in the G.E. after the merch)
5) Does not disrupt gameplay for regular players too much

What is your opinion on Jagex interfering with the market such as what "alledgedly" happened with limpwurt roots when everyone was trying to buy yet the price crashed?

It is their right to adjust prices as they wish, but naturally I would rather have them leave the market to the players and not adjust or cap any prices at all.

Are you fearful that Jagex might step in and close down your clan due to public pressure or are you confident that yours is just one of many clans that work within the rules; the prices go up due to supply and demand so you just utilise that feature?

We work within the rules of the game and I don't think that any attempts to close us down would be successful. We would still exist if the cc were locked and we can find our way around any obstacles, although I don't think that it is likely that Jagex would make merch clans against the rules. Most players bundle up all merch clans together instead of looking at them individually, in which case they would realize that some are completely legitimate.

How many successful merches do you have under your belt and how many have backfired on you, and more importantly, what is considered a good success?

I would estimate that I have around 50 successful merches under my belt. There havn't been any major problems but once we manipulated the price of a potion without realizing that we made one of its ingredients reach a price where it could be collected for a very hefty profit. We still managed to more than double the price. I would consider a merch a success if the price of an item surpasses a 100% rise and can then be sold in small amounts on the G.E. (for those people who don't want to trade).

You "release" the item an hour before the announcement on clanchat through various social networking sites, was there any particular reason this was done or is it simply a way to allow people who actually follow you to get some stuff before telling the mass populace?

It is partially a sort of 'returning member' bonus but also a method to separate us a little from the game in case we decide to move the clan to an external public forum, and it is an easier way to communicate directly with our investors. People can leave messages for us and we can respond to them later.

Many people have likened merchant clans to pyramid schemes and if I am honest I would probably be one of them, where a few powerful tycoons at the top buy up everything in sight and then drive people into a feeding frenzy of mass buying out while you sell up, making loads of profit...How would you turn this perception around and show people that actually someone not affliated might make some decent profit?

Merch clans CAN be pyramid schemes, but a few, like Smokin Mils, are not. Assuming that ranks do not 'sell up' during the merch it is easy for everyone to make a great deal of profit. It is true that for every gp made in the G.E. a gp is lost, but people need to consider the fact that the 'gp lost' is not confined to clan members but rather spread across every regular player in the game that pays an inflated price, while the great majority of the 'gp made' IS focused on clan members as we control the vast majority of the game volume. It should also be considered that ranks do not use the G.E. to get rid of their items but rather do so through 'junk trading' after the merch, which as it turns out is much more profitable for us as we get bigger total price rises.

Obviously the smart investor is (s)he who knows the inherent value of an item, if there are 3 things you could tell someone to check before investing in any announced item (assuming they would know how to anyway) either at the beginning of the merch or nearer the end what would those 3 things be?

1) Is the clan you are investing in reputable and reliable?
2) Do you know of players that use the item in their gameplay, and do you think that some richer or more desperate players would pay an inflated price for the item?
3) Does your logic or gut feeling tell you that the item could be valued higher than its current market price? For example: Berserker necklaces have been taken off PvP and monster drop tables, making them much rarer and expensive to produce. Do you think that this would cause an increase in their price?

What is the average wealth of the leaders in the clan and do you have more than all of them combined?

The average wealth of our 6 generals is about 3 bil. I don't have more than all of them combined they are all highly skilled merchants.

The first few minutes in any update; either to the game or the GE are critical for getting any items before anyone else...how fast do you tend to be in securing stuff and what is your process...do you run to the GE while at the same time checking a pre-made list of items or the updates news to see what has risen and fallen or what may in the future?

There is always a list of items I am interested in, like the clan item and most of the rares which can be used in trading later on. I either memorize their prices or already have existing offers up for them. Methods for catching updates include joining certain IRC channels or using MSN bots which alert you when it updates, but camping at the G.E. with an item in the price check screen to see when its price changes is the most effective method and is essential for obtaining items such as disks and pumkins (at the time of wring this) which are invaluable to us 'junk traders'.

How does it make you feel when most of the RS-players think those who are in merchant clans are nothing more than a horde of profiteers going against the core idea of the game; a game to play, not to profit off the work of others? It seems you are seen as the used-car-salesman onthe corner lot, despised by most.

It doesn't upset me all that much because I believe that most players misunderstand the workings of our clan and make many false assumptions, like "merch clans are responsible for the unstable economy", "merch clans are the reason that items like whips are so expensive", and "merch clans are all scams and the leaders dump early". None of these things are true in the case of our clan and therefore I don't take most criticism seriously. We also do not profit off the work of others - ranks work hard to keep a merch running smoothly and junk trading after every merch while members of the public simply buy and sell.

How would you gauge the overall feedback to your clan, good vs bad?

Most of the in game feedback is very positive. We always appreciate compliments and it makes it all worth while when a player comments about how they can now afford their first godsword or barrows armour because of Smokin Mils. Forum feedback tends to lump all merch clans together so the feedback in that area is nearly always bad.

Now you actively tell people to check the Jmod published post in the official forums, has that actually improved your business where people decide simply to have a punt, or has it made people walk away?

We knew that it would not improve business, however the buying power of the ranks has increased to a point where we simply do not require that many people from the public to be successful. The decision was made because we sincerely hope to separate ourselves from the image that people have in their heads of ALL merch clans being scams. We promote complete and total honesty with the public.

If lots of people dump items way before the target price reaches the goal,how prepared are the leaders to suck up those items and keep the merch going? Is there a cut-off point where you decide that things are going south too fast so it is best just to cut losses?

During a merch there are nearly always some "crashes" were the item is not bought out, but we have billions ready to prevent the snowball effect which would end the merch. All ranks are required to keep a certain percentage of their wealth on reserve (normally 50% but it varies) in case of early crashes. It is normally possible to prevent crashes until the late stages of the merch.

What do you expect from the future of merchant clans, can they survive Jagex' future statements saying they will try to dampen the effects?

There will always be ways to merch and there will always be ways for large groups of people to work together in order to make a profit on the market. The RS market is similar to the real world market and the people will always have some degree of control over the evolution of prices, natural or organized.

Do the oft-times ridiculous quantity limits imposed by the GE help or hinder your efforts, for instance..there is a limit of 2 per person every four hours on treasure items however 25,000 on runes...but with 62M fire runes being traded daily on average (purely as an example) does it frustrate that very few will ever get enough quantity to make a difference to their overall wealth?

The G.E. quantity limits do limit the number of items that we have to choose from, but there are still many items available with limits high enough for us to consider.

Much has been suggested about bringing in ways to see individual offers and quantities held on the GE at any one time as well as other new features, if you personally could add any update to the GE what would it be?

The one you just mentioned would be excellent for all kinds of merchanting. If I were to suggest another it would be that the min and max prices be moved further from the market prices of items, from 5% to 10% perhaps, so that prices could adjust more quickly to their game value instead of (in some cases) taking months before they can be effectively traded across the G.E.

What have you got planned for Smokin Mils into infinity and beyond?

We have implemented the new clan structure and will be recruiting roughly 60 new ranks in the near future and more after that. The new structure has made it much easier to expand, and we plan to begin an additional clan channel within the next 2-3 months. We also have plans for a general money making and merchanting public website in the future where regular players can learn the secrets to making 500k-1m+ per hour without high stat requirements, or making fortunes in their sleep through various forms of merchanting.

Ooooh and one last thing

If you would like to see all the ring's of stone and berserker necklaces that I still have please let me know. I have over 3000 ring of stone and over 500 berserker necklaces. Due to time constraints I'm not even able to junk trade my items . My plan is to rebuy ring of stone at a lower price, forcing them to bounce, and then playing around with the market until eventually they sell at high prices (2-3m).

No proof at this time due to lateness of hour and conflicting schedules ~ Spar

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 2:37 AM, Smokin Mils <email removed> wrote:
Oh and I forgot to add some videos:

Our most recent drop party:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoKwol-xkMU

Explanation of why we ended the prayer pot merch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqJ-vyMofiM

Thanks

This is J Rune showing me his rings of stone and beserker ncklaces to show he doesnt dump early, what he actually does is at end of the "merch" he then junk trades them off for other items that might be better...makes more money that way

This post has been edited by Sparhawke: Oct 22 2009, 12:26 PM

[Mohorak]

It's certainly better to have a capitalist system on RS than one where you aren't allowed to have your own stuff (even though Jagex is more of a socialist society, as you don't own ANYTHING in RuneScape in real life).

This post has been edited by Mohorak: Nov 19 2009, 01:49 PM