[John_And_Edward]

Magic on its own is really bad to be honest. But with all that Soul Wars rewards, combining it with another combat skill is pretty good, as Magic doesn't get combat levels up. Can't you hit more than 30 with a staff casting Ice Barrage?

[error404]

Multy combat is a small percentage of PvP. To say that the entire skill is balanced just from looking at one aspect is absurd. With that notion you could go on forever with pointless claims. The more important thing to note is that there is no way for a person to only use magic and win a 1v1 fight. It does not have a ko. That is absurd. Jagex almost fixed this with extreme potions, which gave magic a max hit of around 50, but then made them completely useless by banning them from pvp. Everyone knows magic is underpowered, even Andrew has stated that there will be a magic rebalance.

Great another guy that has never left Edgeville lol. Multi combat is a small percentage of PvP? Don't make me laugh, there are countless huge clans that use the multi-combat areas of PvP everyday and they have wars that usually last 10+ hours, yeah that's right. Last big war between DI and RoT lasted 13 hours if I'm not mistaken. 300+ people fighting for 10+ hours. There are 50 times more people PKing in multi than solo. Why do you think the clan section is the most used section of RuneScape Community the biggest RuneScape fansite there is? (Zybez in case you don't know). And why the hell are you saying it's impossible for a Mage to win 1v1 fights? I've done it before countless times? Want me to PM you with like 10 solo Magic kills? Give me 1-2 hours and I'll do it.
Magic is a goddamn support skill it's not a skill intented to be used for 1v1 why the heck do you think most spells are multi?
Jesus, don't embarrass yourself talking about stuff you don't know.

You seem to be very confidant that magic is a support skill. If that was the case then Jagex would say that and actually say that. If it was a support skill then they would make it so it evenly complimented range and melee and it would be impossible to solo with. For someone who thinks that they know what they're talking about it seems very contradictory to say you can kill easily with solo magic and then say its a support skill. You're approaching your argument from two totally different sides and you end up sounding like a nut off his pills. Besides, compare the number of people in edge to the number of people in multy. Edge might be trashy luck pking but it has way more volume. I've walked through a multy zone in 10m and only met a trashy 3 person team fail. Your example is from a select time and doesnt reflect the overall volume. Clan forums are the most popular because there are too many egotistical morons like you flaming other clans. You also seem to include hybriding with clan pking which is a bigger lie then this topic's title; hybriding even takes place at edge, and plenty in drags both of which are non multy.
Oh and did I mention that all pvp multy is just an unorganized runescape click orgy?

P.S. That last comment was just to see you blow your top again. Take a chilly pilly.

Have you ever PKed in your life? What do you mean I seem to be very confident that magic is a support skill? I am sure Magic is a support skill because jagex already stated it is. Hell they even made a whole spellbook filled with support spells! (Lunar)
All i see is you claiming that Jagex said Magic was overpowered but you haven't show me any proof yet maybe if you show me some I'll believe. How am I contradicing myself? I said Magic is more useful in multi areas and it's true but it's also possible to get kills with Magic 1v1 and I'll prove you anyday, you can range/melee I don't care and I'll fight you simply with Magic and we'll see who wins. Just because your not looking in the right places doesn't mean the multi-areas are empty maybe you should open your eyes and actually PK when the big clans are out and stop hiding in Edgeville. Your also saying I need a chill pill? Your the one insulting me for having a different opinion how about you get some decent arguments before trying to sound e-cool? Insulting me won't change reality, only shows how immature you are. PvP multi is a unorganizated click orgy lmfao that made my day. Clan PKing takes more skill and organization than anything else in RuneScape. Before telling me to chill just look at yourself your raging over a game. Really consider taking a break your clearly taking this too far. It's pathetic when people like you insult others and presume things they don't know, you don't even know me so how do you know the kind of person I am? Makes you look like one of these people that get all upset and start insulting when someone disagrees with them. Your free to quote me and say whatever you want I'm not going to argue with someone who can't clearly have a clean debate about a game without insulting everyone who disagrees with him. If you feel you have something to teach me about PvP feel free to PM me the time and place and I'll fight you whenever you want.

Take a "chilly pilly" and have a nice day.

Your saying that magic can be used as supporting other combat types, but then you say that magic can be used as 1v1, the topic poster has said that magic isn't for 1v1, we have proven that it isn't for 1v1 and you still say that it can be used in 1v1, even though it can't be used efficiently? That is really contradictory, to magic be used in 1v1 it must be improved, why can't it be improved?
And clan PKing is really disorganized when I see them, magic really needs improving, it is in the combat triangle, there is something called a mage, it must be able to win a fight with 1v1 with a meleer.

[Micael Fatia]

Jagex said that Magic is UNDERpowered, not OVERpowered. There was something recently where MArk Gerhard said that he was going to boost magic to balance it... having a hard time finding it though...

*Underpowered. Sorry, I wrote that in a rush last night.
Anyway it's not Jagex who plays the game, why do you think they have player testers and are open to all kinds of suggestions? Why do you think so many weapons and stuff has been nerfed? Because Jagex listens to the players that play the game and know more about how the new items and new stuff affect the game more than Jagex and if Jagex said they are going to "balance" Magic it's because they got tired of all the idiots whinning about Magic being underpowered just because they don't know how to effectively use it.

Your saying that magic can be used as supporting other combat types, but then you say that magic can be used as 1v1, the topic poster has said that magic isn't for 1v1, we have proven that it isn't for 1v1 and you still say that it can be used in 1v1, even though it can't be used efficiently? That is really contradictory, to magic be used in 1v1 it must be improved, why can't it be improved?
And clan PKing is really disorganized when I see them, magic really needs improving, it is in the combat triangle, there is something called a mage, it must be able to win a fight with 1v1 with a meleer.

Of course we haven proven Magic isn't for 1v1, it was me who proved it remember? But that doesn't mean Magic can be effectively used in 1v1 if you know what your doing, if you read one of my last posts you'll noticed I said Magic is supposed to be great for some things and not so great for others. Melee for example we all agree it's very good for solo combat right, it was designed for solo combat and there are few weapons good for multi-combat but that doesn't mean you can't kill someone in multi with melee. Just like my M1 Garand example, if you didn't get it I'll try to make it a bit more RuneScapeish: Before the Corrupt dragon weapons the Rune 2hand was the best K0 weapon in F2P but now it's not even in the top 5 best F2P weapons, but does that mean you can't K0 anyone with a Rune 2hand just because there are better weapons? It's the same thing with Magic, just because there are skill better than Magic for 1v1 combats doesn't mean you can't kill anyone with Magic. No offense you definitely don't know anything about clan PKing if you think it's disorganizated, they use a lot of tactics, such as having fall in leaders to call piles, binders/tbers to stop their opponents from running, snipers to target enemy binders, and they don't use the "normal" means to do this, all the good clans and teams use ventrillo or teamspeak for superior organization. If you think clan PKing is unorganization probably you've seen crappy clans fight because all the top clans are super organizated.

[GmanGomez]

Stack bonusing is much slower than normal spell casting, I can stack hit with bow and 2h, what's the difference? D hide makes magic underpowered and magic isn't a nuke, it is simply an attack that is de-powered by some armours and fails at attacking at close range, it needs a boost, honestly the arguments you base on are just of one. Now back to the topic you posted, this has been posted before and I will give my arguments to it.

Ok I realise that this is only for members, big disadvantage to f2p which is my first argument.
With stack hitting, it takes more time and still hits lowER than most, rangers can totally nullify the damage and meleers can wear d'hide to reduce damage, protect from magic prayer isn't helpful either.

Ice is known as the ancient spells that are the LEAST accurate and shadow as the most accurate, with that in mind, stack hitting might miss or hit low most of the time and magic is kinda not that accurate. Stack hitting also reduces the speed of the spells and fails more easily, it is not the way to power or use magic successfully.

Ice blitz and shadow barrage hits quite...low, 29 is not that much and IMO d'hide could nullify the effects. Although this is quite aggressive, this lacks accuracy making it hit lower on a long term basis.

I say the same with Ice blitz and blood barrage but smoke barrage and shadow barrage hits even lower, although more accurate, it is quite troublesome to use and could not decapitate a player quickly. This spell is neither biased on defensiveness or aggressiveness so it takes more patience to use.

Smoke and blood barrage is more accurate and is more of a defensive combination than the above meaning it still fails with aggressively attacking and the mage will fall to more skilled meleers and rangers.

Ice and shadow barrage is the one I would choose if I was stuck with magic, a medium accuracy and high hitting spell which is aggressive and defensive so this is quite good, no arguments apart form the speed of this and the frustration when you need to stay a certain distance.

Finally ice barrage and blood barrage needs a good distance to set this up, as the opponent closes in this is rendered useless really, although it has medium damage, it's accuracy is limited and the slowness of this is immense.

Armours are limited for the mage, the ones suggested were enormously expensive or they lacked magic attack or range/melee defence, the mge needs more armours actually dedicated to them so they don't use shields for fighting dragons or armour for the ranger.

I have no arguments for the staff.

And melee weapons are out of the point, we are making a magic pure (maybe defence) not a hybrid.
Same with triple stacking, this is a magic pure not a range and magic hybrid.

That's all I have to say ATM.

agreed. Jagex needs to fix up the spells. I mean come on is there even a spell that can compare to a spec?

This post has been edited by GmanGomez: Nov 5 2009, 08:56 AM

[Micael Fatia]

agreed. Jagex needs to fix up the spells. I mean come on is there even a spell that can compare to a spec?

Miasmic spells can effectively halve your opponents damage capabilities, isn't that good enough for you?

[Uther]

agreed. Jagex needs to fix up the spells. I mean come on is there even a spell that can compare to a spec?

Miasmic spells can effectively halve your opponents damage capabilities, isn't that good enough for you?

For that you need a staff that's not even permanent.
And remember, you can't Ice Barrage and Teleblock at the sime time...

[Mario]

Stack bonusing is much slower than normal spell casting, I can stack hit with bow and 2h, what's the difference? D hide makes magic underpowered and magic isn't a nuke, it is simply an attack that is de-powered by some armours and fails at attacking at close range, it needs a boost, honestly the arguments you base on are just of one. Now back to the topic you posted, this has been posted before and I will give my arguments to it.

Ok I realise that this is only for members, big disadvantage to f2p which is my first argument.
With stack hitting, it takes more time and still hits lowER than most, rangers can totally nullify the damage and meleers can wear d'hide to reduce damage, protect from magic prayer isn't helpful either.

Ice is known as the ancient spells that are the LEAST accurate and shadow as the most accurate, with that in mind, stack hitting might miss or hit low most of the time and magic is kinda not that accurate. Stack hitting also reduces the speed of the spells and fails more easily, it is not the way to power or use magic successfully.

Ice blitz and shadow barrage hits quite...low, 29 is not that much and IMO d'hide could nullify the effects. Although this is quite aggressive, this lacks accuracy making it hit lower on a long term basis.

I say the same with Ice blitz and blood barrage but smoke barrage and shadow barrage hits even lower, although more accurate, it is quite troublesome to use and could not decapitate a player quickly. This spell is neither biased on defensiveness or aggressiveness so it takes more patience to use.

Smoke and blood barrage is more accurate and is more of a defensive combination than the above meaning it still fails with aggressively attacking and the mage will fall to more skilled meleers and rangers.

Ice and shadow barrage is the one I would choose if I was stuck with magic, a medium accuracy and high hitting spell which is aggressive and defensive so this is quite good, no arguments apart form the speed of this and the frustration when you need to stay a certain distance.

Finally ice barrage and blood barrage needs a good distance to set this up, as the opponent closes in this is rendered useless really, although it has medium damage, it's accuracy is limited and the slowness of this is immense.

Armours are limited for the mage, the ones suggested were enormously expensive or they lacked magic attack or range/melee defence, the mge needs more armours actually dedicated to them so they don't use shields for fighting dragons or armour for the ranger.

I have no arguments for the staff.

And melee weapons are out of the point, we are making a magic pure (maybe defence) not a hybrid.
Same with triple stacking, this is a magic pure not a range and magic hybrid.

That's all I have to say ATM.

agreed. Jagex needs to fix up the spells. I mean come on is there even a spell that can compare to a spec?

There may be no spell that can compare to a spec. Why should there be one? I haven't received an answer to that yet.

[error404]

Jagex said that Magic is UNDERpowered, not OVERpowered. There was something recently where MArk Gerhard said that he was going to boost magic to balance it... having a hard time finding it though...

*Underpowered. Sorry, I wrote that in a rush last night.
Anyway it's not Jagex who plays the game, why do you think they have player testers and are open to all kinds of suggestions? Why do you think so many weapons and stuff has been nerfed? Because Jagex listens to the players that play the game and know more about how the new items and new stuff affect the game more than Jagex and if Jagex said they are going to "balance" Magic it's because they got tired of all the idiots whinning about Magic being underpowered just because they don't know how to effectively use it.

Your saying that magic can be used as supporting other combat types, but then you say that magic can be used as 1v1, the topic poster has said that magic isn't for 1v1, we have proven that it isn't for 1v1 and you still say that it can be used in 1v1, even though it can't be used efficiently? That is really contradictory, to magic be used in 1v1 it must be improved, why can't it be improved?
And clan PKing is really disorganized when I see them, magic really needs improving, it is in the combat triangle, there is something called a mage, it must be able to win a fight with 1v1 with a meleer.

Of course we haven proven Magic isn't for 1v1, it was me who proved it remember? But that doesn't mean Magic can be effectively used in 1v1 if you know what your doing, if you read one of my last posts you'll noticed I said Magic is supposed to be great for some things and not so great for others. Melee for example we all agree it's very good for solo combat right, it was designed for solo combat and there are few weapons good for multi-combat but that doesn't mean you can't kill someone in multi with melee. Just like my M1 Garand example, if you didn't get it I'll try to make it a bit more RuneScapeish: Before the Corrupt dragon weapons the Rune 2hand was the best K0 weapon in F2P but now it's not even in the top 5 best F2P weapons, but does that mean you can't K0 anyone with a Rune 2hand just because there are better weapons? It's the same thing with Magic, just because there are skill better than Magic for 1v1 combats doesn't mean you can't kill anyone with Magic. No offense you definitely don't know anything about clan PKing if you think it's disorganizated, they use a lot of tactics, such as having fall in leaders to call piles, binders/tbers to stop their opponents from running, snipers to target enemy binders, and they don't use the "normal" means to do this, all the good clans and teams use ventrillo or teamspeak for superior organization. If you think clan PKing is unorganization probably you've seen crappy clans fight because all the top clans are super organizated.

Again there is a mage, there is a combat triangle involving the mage, there is a skill for the mage therefore it is essential that a mage can beat melee in a fight, it is simple, Jagex guides, sals guides, all Runescape fansite guides state that there is a triangle that clearly says that mages defeat melee. So far that is not true so yes magic is underpowered.

[Micael Fatia]

Again there is a mage, there is a combat triangle involving the mage, there is a skill for the mage therefore it is essential that a mage can beat melee in a fight, it is simple, Jagex guides, sals guides, all Runescape fansite guides state that there is a triangle that clearly says that mages defeat melee. So far that is not true so yes magic is underpowered.

Now your contradicing yourself. In a fair 1v1 fight a mage could still beat a meleer using ancient spells for example, just keep freezing your opponent until eventually die before even having the change of dealing any decent amount of damage to you. If the meleer changes to Dhide or any other Ranged armour then that is considered hybriding and you guys have been saying that pure magic =/= hybriding, in that case then melee with ranged arm =/= pure melee. That means the triangle still works, mages beat warriors, warriors beat rangers and rangers beat mages.

[Alyce]

I've been busy, sorry. Very good points on both sides here, guys.

[Micael Fatia]

I've been busy, sorry. Very good points on both sides here, guys.

There's not really two sides, it's pretty much just me against the world lol. But so far I think it's been a nice debate.

[Halanura]

I have no idea about members magic. But since I play f2p alot I can easily say that magic is underpowered in that realm.

[Alyce]

I've been busy, sorry. Very good points on both sides here, guys.

There's not really two sides, it's pretty much just me against the world lol. But so far I think it's been a nice debate.

I agree. Looking over it, it's everyone against you. Although, I do agree with you, I just can't debate too much.