Now, I will stand directly by my point. Mods, before warning me, listen to my point. One point I wanted to make was this:

Mods, how much do you want to bet that you'll go crazy when Goliath/the Vice Ed/Section Heads ask you in so many posts, accept him, accept her!

The old forums were much better, and you said on the forums that you wouldn't get in between our newspaper stuff. But making this new forum IS going between our stuff. We were much bettre off at the old forum. Now all the mods/global mods most likely not have the same powers, everything is so bland looking, it's just really bad. I'm pretty sure that some people will totally disagree, and some mods will think of warning me just because of the title. I just wanted to prove my point and express my opinions. If you don't like it, I don't know what to say.

This makes everything much easier.

Mods and Admins do not accept articles.

There is no use in fighting; the move is inevitable. You need to adjust.

Meh, its neither good or bad. Better than the last one though...

agreed . It makes things easier and like common. adjust some of our newspaper is staff is acting like they are taking our rights away . They are just asking us to change offices and new location. whats the big commotion?!

A big fuss over nothing. What difference does it make, whether you post your articles at the old forum or here?

I think the last newspaper forum was "buried deep" within Sal's.I like this one.

I think the vote sums it all up. Personally I would close the old forum as quickly as possible.

Stobbo. read prashes post in the Newspaper Round Table forum. Read his new topic. Anyway, mods close this.

Why should we close this? We are having a discussion.

I have read it, my opinion on the matter has not been changed.

I really don't see the matter with either forums. In fact, I don't particuarly like the paper, because it is censored (Through actual censoring AND intimidation) by all the mods and admins for only "Happy, pro-everything!" things, and I beleve that's a bit of the First Amendment down the tubes.

Really, while we're at it, why don't we scrap the whole thing? (Jk, but it's not too bad of an idea )

Allright though, back on topic. I beleve that if I had to take a side, i'd prefer the older Newspaper forums just because of the lack of control that big brother appears to have. I'm a bit of a silent witness to the whole newspaper process... I don't post, I just watch. And it's one hell of a "General Hospital".

I'm sure I hate the idea more than you do, but there is now an official Sal's Newspaper located on these forums. If people don't want to move here, they can create their own paper. But its never going to be put on the Sal's Realm website, so you probably would get almost no viewers.

What they mod team has done here they have definitely done using their authority, though one could easily argue that some of what happened on the old forums wasn't done using their proper authority. Not that arguing that now would do us any good, as their decision is clearly final. We need to forget about all this crap, move on, and write a good issue.

Once all of the newspaper staff is able to view the newspaper forums, we should be given a much more thorough explanation of everything that is happening. Then we can discuss it (hopefully better than I, along with many others, did on the newspaper forums) and hopefully everybody will be at least partially content with the changes.

Meh, I'd rather have the newspaper at it's old location. After all, sals paper is affiliated with Sal's Website not the forum.

Anyway... I prefer the last one tons more. And where can I post my articles now????

-cosmic

Mod Interference to the rescue.

Why? We can't edit permission masks; we can't edit ranks; it's an admin's job.

1. The name of the newspaper is "Sal's Newspaper".
2. You are "rocks and socks rox my sox".
3. rocks and socks rox my sox =/= Sal
4. Therefore, the newspaper isn't yours.
Not to mention that we don't (nor won't) accept articles, vote in nominations, reject articles, etc.

I see. Perhaps you think that we just want to dress you in prison orange and ship you to e-Guantànamo. Well, your attitude isn't helping in any way. Actually, it's only making matters worse.

Error 501: User has no clue. Like we're actually censoring what's on the paper...right. Have fun with your e-martyrdom.

We can't create forums. How can WE (greenies) have done anything?

OMG we r not getting our way SO I DUN LIKE DIS!!!!

Thats how this sounds like to me guys.

This is well... "Sal's Newspaper". Made by the community here on Sals. Who monitors the community? The Mods and Admins, collectively known as the Staff.


So the Newspaper is "equal" to the forums and should be kept apart?
But then Salmoneus can't be everywhere, so he has the moderation team.

You know, I would have taken this whole post seriously if you actually started in a proper fashion, not immediately trying to portray us as a bunch of power abusers. Do you think this forum runs smoothly by itself? Do you think we immediately ban anyone we dislike just because we dislike them?
You Sir, are trying to incite to disagreements on this issue, even when you are totally clueless on what the Staff actually are forced to deal with each day. If you want to disagree, then fine, promote it simple and polite. Hell, if it's something the Staff favours, it's constructive criticism because it helps showing things from a different viewpoint.
18 months ago when I was a normal member, I did nothing else but argue and find flaws in rules and moderator behaviour, I along with countless others has spent time trying to smoothen the rules and make the place good enough for the rest. Do you honestly think I forget that time, even if I take another pip and a mountain of other responsibilities?



I'd rather start a bet on if you know exactly who Drokarus was and if you know what he did when he was banned the dozen times he broke countless rules. You say we'll interfere... how? I only have moderating powers, not administrator priveleges.

Creating newspaper-content, editing and correcting this content and bring it to a point where it can be published is your job, as well as running the daily life on the Newspaper. However, the newspaper is neither YOUR newspaper nor the general management of it as a project doesn't concern any of you... at all.
It's a project of Sal's Realm, not a project from the Newspaper.
A Board of Directors on a Hospital (Newspaper staff on the Newspaper) still got to answer to the Department of Health (Moderating Team) which again are subject to the Head of State (Salmoneus). It's that simple.



Please try to refrain from making your cause look just and rightous, the way you're expressing yourself portray you as something far more ridiculous.


Your attitude on segregating the Newspaper from the Forum and Site brought that up, the strain of disobedience and refusal to listen to what we kindly asked was an attempt by some of the Newspaper Staff to go Head to Head with Salmoneus and the Moderating Team. That, in itself, lead to us to use both the authority and leverage that we had to force it through. It's simply not a debatable issue after what some of you did, either you listen to it (and criticize us constructively so we can ensure this works out great in the end with few hindrances), or more forcible actions would have had to be taken, and I personally don't want that.



I agree with you Steve, let the Sectional-heads and editors work on how to smoothen the move and also ensure you can work as good as possible, then just lets give it a try and see how it goes. I don't intend to go and read articles atleast, nor start commenting on how you should work. I think a few of you doesn't really understand that, we're just moving your offices, we're not intending to nurse you like nannies.

Why should we have a forum seperate from Sal's, when this is apart of Sal's?

This seems to be creating a barrier between us.

"The mod team" refers to moderators and admins collectively. You do know that admins can moderate the forum, right?

The biggest and best change I'll notice is that the only sections we'll have to work with now are the only necessary ones. Newspaper staff members, take a look at the old newspaper forums. There are a lot of pointless/unused sections in that forum. Here (once we get the sections sorted out as we desire and agree upon), we will be using a much more neatly organized set of useful newspaper sections.

The staff is not trying to control the newspaper proceedings, but has decided to provide a place for us to work on the official Sal's forums. Therefore, the following is NOT actually occurring:

They aren't getting between us and our work. And yes, it does help enforce certain policies.

Ok. But we are working on a new issue/ At least let us finish.. the deadline is in 10 days! You should have made it right when we released it, so we wouldn't have this delay!

Just a question on how the new forums are going to work. Will there have to be a new usergroup for us of the newspaper staff? Before you say "wtf are you talking about," let me explain.

The newspaper is not necessarily a SECRET, but part of the reason for its own forum was so that we don't have guests reading the unfinished articles and stuff like that before the newspaper is finalized. With it now on Slams, anyone who is registered to Sal's Forum can read the articles. This will make it: 1. hard to distinguish who's staff and who's not, and 2. boring to read for the viewers, since they can just see it on the forums beforehand. So now that I think you understand my train of logic, what do you think? Will they have to make the Newspaper Staff a new usergroup so that only they can view the Newspaper Forums here on Sal's? Or is the a different and better way?

Only the Newspaper Team can see the Newspaper Submissions and Discussion Forums. They are there now actually. No there is no usergroup for Newspaper Staff.

You can't expect things here to be synchronized with what was happening in the other forums. We will just be delayed a bit, not a big problem.

Okay good. I didn't realize you could have a permission mask without being part of a user group. Thanks for clarification

I was actually thinking that it would be a good idea to let you finish your current issue of the "old" newspaper forum, then you can start writing the articles for the new newspaper issue in here.

Bubble, bubble boil and trouble look what this mess is turning into... Wait for it..


A bigger mess!!!!! Mods, please read my post on the old paper forums.

-cosmic

Funny, most people here seem to adapt and work on equalizing the possibilities, yet it turns into a bigger mess?

If you yourself decided to possibly work on trying the new option out and working together with the Staff to simplify things, you'd maybe start to see less mess.

Well gee, thanks for that diamond advice. I'm trying to see the point in this. I'm trying to see the good that will come out if it, yet so far I have accomplished nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nil. Nothing. Before you jump to a conclusion and state "you're not trying hard enough", yes, I am. Well, duh, of course the staff is trying to adapt to the new forum. Do we have a choice? Well, I'll answer that for you, no. We don't. Not a single ounce of choice of where this paper will go. sure, we power it. We keep it running. But no It doesn't matter where it goes. We can just let the mighty all powerful moderating team to do such an honourable job...

-cosmic

Some good that will come out of it is having the paper forum located on Sal's, so people might view it more often. Also, more people will see the applications forum, so more people are likely to want to join the paper. I'm sure there are more, those are just the first ones that popped into my head (and I'm too tired to think of more ).

Whatever. I'm wrong. I'm always wrong. I'm just a big fat noob. Nothing to it. But.. I bet if you weigh the good vs the bad you might be a little surprised.

BAD:
*It will delay paper, with people taking time to move articles here, edit accept etc.
*it will take away all the hard work off the maintainers and creaters of the old forum
*a lot of people (eg. me don't want to make the move)
*it will make the mod team more of a power force.
*on sals newspaper forums you don't have to worry about little kiddies trying to get dm status, on here... Well.. It's another story.
*I prefer the old forum much, much more because: Interface, Layout and well, the whole forums better.

...Good:
*less of a secret
*more people will realise it
*more apps.

-cosmic

Your attempt at being witty and sarcastic has just failed in an epic fashion, and has just proven Yuanrang's post as true.

What do you mean by "Not a single ounce of choice of where this paper will go"? Do you think that now the mod team will control what you're doing? Do you think that we're going to check all your articles and if we disagrees we're going to delete them? Do you think that we just want to overrule you?

If so, the conclusion one can come to is only one: you don't care a single bit about the newspaper per se, but only about whether YOU get to keep your powers and abilities or not. Which is very, very, very sad.

About what I've seen recently in the newspaper forums:
Why? Why should we get a pre-emptive control on your articles? That's being paranoid at the least. (Not to mention that, if Sal saw such an article, would he publish it? ) Seriously, we aren't Hitler, yet it seems that many, for their personal convenience, like to compare us with ruthless dictators.

1. Make a thread in the Editors forum saying "z0mg promote Zombie Kid90, Zachary and DELOCH"
2. Report that thread saying "adminz plz" (OR, if you can move threads, move it into the mod forum)
3. An admin will see it and set up the permission masks.

Nothing too long nor complicated, and nothing that the staff can object to. If you (Newspaper staff) deem someone fit for the writer's job, he gets promoted, no (or very few) questions asked.

...which ones?

Ahem. We are not doing anything in secrecy. Sal knows all of this, you see. If he disagreed, he would at least have said something. But no, we're dictators, we've taken Sal's over.

Who's arrogant? Read your own post and see...

Steve wrote an awesome post about how the newspaper must go on, and yet, you don't do anything and just complain all day long. If we were against the newspaper, you, at the moment, are doing an even more destructive job.

...are you? What have you done? Provoke endless bickering? Spark flamewars? Yes, that's a good contribution.

If only you could get into your thick head that we are NOT going to mess with it...

Quoted from Dissentor:EDIT: about your post above:
Editors have moderating powers here..so why should it take more time?
If there isn't a newspaper group separated from the normal forum members, kiddies won't even try.
Please, PLEASE, how much will it take to you to realize that we DO NOT WANT TO MODERATE YOUR NEWSPAPER?

Steve, as much as he can oppose the move and as much as a noob he is (), is acting just in the best interest of the newspaper; while you are acting only in the best interests of yours.

Whatever. No, I have not sparked flame wars. I'm only trying to voice my opinion. I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm sorry for using free speech. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for trying to stop something that's happening to the paper. I take your post Dani offensively. It greatly offended me that you thought I'm arrogant and don't contribute anything to the paper. I do contribute to the paper. I do it because I want to. If you can call me voicing my opinion as sparking a flame wars I can call your post day as a personal insult to me. I don't see you as a sort of "glue that holds the forum together". I see it differently. But don't you worry. I won't say what I think. Because that's sparking a flame wars. *sigh*

Guess we just better let this pointless thing happen...

-cosmic

Good heavens, let's chill.

Same here. But..

Do you think I offended you on purpose?

But just saying that this is just going to become a bigger mess..how is it helping? See Steve's posts, I'm sure he hates the move way more than you, and yet still tries to collaborate. We're not here to dictate what you have to do.

Meh. All we do is to keep the forum in order. Guess it's not holding together the forum.

It comes down to this: The move has been made. To those of you who continue to work so hard to produce a such great paper, I commend you, for accepting the change, and moving on. Those of you who are complaining only joined the paper team because you viewed it as a status symbol, not because you wanted to help out, and that's really quite disappointing.

Want to prove me wrong? Then don't argue here, start helping out with the rest of the paper team, to the very best of your abilities. The quality of the paper changes according to how much effort its writers and editors put in, not what forums its written and edited on. I don't see any reason why the next issue can't be the best one yet. So stop complaining, and start contributing.

Agreed, on a side note a post about the affiliation thing. The paper is affiliated with Sal's Website and the Forums are associated with the website. Thus the two can be connected. It provides an easier to control work place just like how Tech Support and the Marketplace is based here. You do not see these groups on their own separate forums...if we did this, Sal's forum would be one GIANT link shed to many separate boards. That is had to manage and riduculous not to mention expensive.

The complaining about the move needs to stop. It happened then end live with it.

Ok, just a little input. Cosmicdude2, I really enjoy working with you in the newspaper. You produce pretty fascinating articles and when I work with you to improve and correct your writing, you always seem very grateful and very willing to get better. That being said, I did not expect such a reaction from you. We're still going to produce the Sal's newspaper like we always have, but it'll be on the Sal's forums, where it probably should have been all along. Here, let me show you something.

Delay the paper... remember last paper? It was quite delayed, without any big move in the middle of it. Also, we aren't being delayed from doing anything. So it hasn't been configured how we want it yet, but the newspaper sections are up and we are all able to contribute. We can continue with the paper right now, without delay.

You'll have to ask the creators of the old forum how much they care about their forum going unused now. Also, look at it from the flipside. The admins here have put in a lot of work too. They are trying to help us.

Some people don't want to move, some people do. After a little while, nobody will even care. We'll just be doing the same old thing again.

The mods aren't interested in controlling the paper. This has no influence on their power.

People here will not try to become DMs just by contributing to the paper. You can trust me, the DMs and forum staff can see through any foolish attempts at forum-wide attention and recognition.

Actually, I believe once it has been laid out here, it will be much better than the old forum. There were a lot of sections there that nobody used except for once in a blue moon. Then nobody would even post because they didn't even know it was there. Here, we'll have everything we need, organized the way we want.

Better communication with the rest of the Sal's forumers. We don't have to post a link to the newspaper forums in random places now.

Better publicity. Heck, this move has turned into such a stunt, that everyone and their brother knows about the paper in all of its awesomeness now!

Better organization. Like I just said, we'll have all the sections and powers we need, organized the way we'd like it. It will also be organized better, and with less random sections.

We're on Sal's now. It's more convenient for us to open up Sal's and just scroll down than it is to log into two different forums. As an official project of the community, this is where it belongs.

This will enforce the policy to keep banned users out. I probably shouldn't have said that because it sparked up a huge controversy before, but banned members are banned for a (FAIR) reason.

So cosmic, I really hate to see you getting so riled up over this, as it isn't terrible thing after all. I hope I have been able to help you see otherwise now. It would be a shame to lose an active participant over something so silly.

I was thinking that all we'd have to do was move it to the accepted applications subforum. Then an admin would see it and give that applicant the permission mask. If it isn't noticed right away, then just report it!

Mhmm. It's not even a bad thing anyway.

That's fine, too. But admins, once in a while, would overlook that forum, while they (almost) never overlook the mod board...

I don't even want to reply to Cosmic's posts. If he doesn't yet understand that we have no intention of controlling, manipulating, or taking over the newspaper with evil intent, I don't see what I can do.

If it seems inefficient or hard to use... Let me know exactly what you want changed. "Ohh, I hate this, I wish it was different.. This is so inefficient" and a bunch of grumbling doesn't help. We want to make this easy for you - that means that I won't mind changing permission masks, adding/removing forums. That can't happen, however, if all we do is sit here complaining.

Heh, mid life crisis over then Patou.
Cosmic, no point discussing this now. Like talking to a wall, a wall which seems to be far more stubborn than me. Which is very impressive.

That's a pretty good idea, I agree, we could pretend this didn't happen until the issues finished, and then start fresh here.

I've been posting all my articles here - so where should I post them then

I agree with you Pat. That was what I was saying. Let us finish this issue, then we'll move. We actually want to make an issue in 1 month!

I think we should just move all of the articles here, to make things less confusing.

Well now we have 8 days until the deadline. Making all these forums is slowing down the process.

It doesn't slow anything down. You can always save your work if you cannot post it.

Arguing about it is slowing down the process. I have a question...are the other newspaper forums restricted to other members, since they are not part of the staff? I don't know if you can restrict the sections among one member group.

Well currently everybody is working on this. Goliath needs to make the polls and everything.. it's still going to slow us down.

Viewing forums are totally different from usergroups. It is done on permission masks. Permission masks can be applied on a member by member basis or usergroup basis.

The admins have created a Newspaper Permission Mask and added it to every member's account. We have our usergroup masks and newspaper mask. So I can see the Newspaper Forums and Tech Support Hidden Forums even though I am on the newspaper permission mask.