So i finally got my Pump working yesterday and i thought I'd give my system a nice cooling boost by installing a water cooling setup. So this morning I went out and bought some thermal compound cleaner then came back and ran the setup for testing. Ran it for about 8 hours (OTT but i was busy with other stuff ) to check for leaks, bubbles or any problems. I've just installed it about 20mins ago and thought I'd let you guys know the results!

Before - Stable 24/7 OC
Idle
-45, 44, 43, 45
LOAD (Prime95 Large FTT)
-66, 67, 68, 66

(did spike to 70 at one point)

Overclock

3.25ghz Overclock
voltage 1.28750

I managed to hit 3.6ghz with a voltage of around 1.38 but hit a temperature wall with temps hitting 70 in blend.

Now with the setup
Idle
34,33,34,35

Load (prime95 Large FTT)
55,54,54,54



I ran prime for quite some time to let the cores warm up but nothing is going past 55 at the moment. The setup will certainly allow me to hit a higher overclock, and I'll tell you guys how i get on with that.

P.S the load temps will drop a little over time, just waiting for that arctic ceramic to settle in as well as the setup having a few cycles

Arctic Silver ArctiClean? Did you make sure it was free of bubbles? Also, you have secured the end of each tube to the barbs, correct? I've seen plenty of people who leave them unsecured, the tube pops off the barb, and then a good day becomes a bad day.


3.25GHz and 1.29V, right? Even under a Tuniq, those seem a bit high for core temperatures. What were you using for software monitoring? Quite often, CoreTemp has the wrong T_Junction--which lends itself to awkward temperatures.


Temperatures looking better.


Arctic Silver Ceramique doesn't have to set/cure. You're unlikely to see even a 1^oC drop in temperatures later. I'd say try for another 150-200MHz now that cooling is better.

What'd you end up doing for the case? I remember you had some troubles with fitting everything. IIRC, you have a 120.2 rad in there, somehow, and I don't remember that case having space for something that size. Outline your entire setup, please.

Also, I've managed to sort out my system as well. As I posted before, I had some major problems booting quite often. I managed to fix it last night between 10PM and 2AM, and got some better results. Right now I'm running Everest. I estimate it's been on for 6 hours now. When I last look at it (2 hours in), I had all load temperatures under 55^oC. I'm liking my 36cm fan right now--motherboard stayed at a constant 27-28^oC, no matter the load. I'll give you some numbers, but you'll have to guess what my new final overclock is.

Stock (1600MHz): 32.781 seconds
New OC (____MHz): 20.095 seconds

That's all I'll have to say about it--and my sig is the old OC so far.

EDIT: Fixed a few typos.

I used akasa thermal compound remover, a coffee filter and cotton buds to remove the thermal compound. Took some time but practically all of it off (from what i can see). Ran the system for 8 hours before installing it (just on my desk) and it had no bubbles, all ends are secured with hose clamps and it looks pretty sturdy.

I'm not sure if its the tuniqs fault, i think my case may be the culprit it doesn't have great airflow (despite what reviews will have you believe) and it doesn't house much. The Radiator/Reservoir is mounted on the back of the case with a 200mm Fan i'm fine with the way its setup at the moment and it appears to be working.

I'll try and guess in a moment I'm trying to keep the system stable at 3.7ghz at the moment, it really doesn't like it

My graphics card is running a little warm as well, i've been thinking about replacing the case with a CM Cosmos 1000, i don't have the money right now but maybe something to consider soon. I'll have a ganders at your overclock in the moment Just breaking i mean overclocking my computer at the moment.

Edit: Just downloaded Everest Corporate edition. It runs fine for a while and the temps are acceptable. My problem is that prime seems somewhat unstable which i don't particularly like. Could be memory, but my timings are relaxed (5-5-5-15) and the voltage is set at 2.05 (1.9-2.0 recommended). Currently running in sync at 820mhz (stock 800). Seems fairly odd...

Also experiencing quite a bit of vdroop. Set my vcore at 1.45 and Everest is showing min of 1.39 and max of 1.43 - Should i be worried?

For thermal compound removal, you need to be sure it's all off, or you run into problems with temperature. Quite often mixing compounds seems to ruin the thermal transfer and quite possibly "dry out" the material.

So a 200mm rad out the back. Ok. What blocks and pump are you using?

Graphics cards always run hot on stock--many cards will run upwards of even 85^oC. Basically don't worry about it--if you've not messed with it, it's usually enough. As for a Cosmos 1000--I've heard some news of that particular case not being particularly... good... for cooling. At least not as much as reviews & marketing wants you to believe. I have heard, however, that there is more than enough space for up to three or four radiators.

That RAM should be good--5-5-5-15 should be loose enough for DDR2 820 speeds. Then again, 2x2GB sets aren't exactly great for overclocking. Many serious benchers I know use a single "golden" 512MB or 1024MB stick of RAM. You should be fine up to DDR2 900--though there I'd start loosening the timings even more. I had my cheapo DDR2 800 overclocked to DDR2 900 speeds, though I relaxed timings from 5-5-5-16 to 6-6-6-19. It's not so much about frequency as it is about access. That being said, you'll have RAM respond about the same running at 200MHz (DDR2 400) and 3-3-3-9 as you will have at 400MHz (DDR2 800) and 6-6-6-18. For RAM limiting, just loosen the timings a good deal. You're not chasing down WRs, so you don't need the tightest timings. Also, as I'm sure you know, the amount of RAM generally matters more than the speed of the RAM.

So you've finally found that Vdroop. My recommendation? Up voltage. Even if you lose .05V (not that bad), up it more and you'll compensate for it. Intel's Conroe, Kentsfield, and Allendale cores can handle a good deal of voltage--I'd say max out at 1.55V or so. Right now, I'm running at 1.4V or about 1.34V actual. I started a Prime95 stress test--after finishing an 8-hour Everest burn-in. Also, don't be afraid of differing core temperatures, especially on a quad. Not only are the sensors inaccurate, but they also are reading four different cores that are dealing with differing tasks and have differing amounts of material between them, the IHS, and your block. Seeing a 0.04V to 0.06V drop is pretty normal. If you start seeing a 0.10V drop, you'll run into quite a few problems. Like power supplies, voltage regulators (Asus is really known for this) are about quality over quantity. While they'd like you to think your 8 or 12 phase voltage regulators are perfect, they're often beaten by higher-quality 4 or 6 phase voltage regulators on higher-quality motherboards. Also remember your quad is now consuming well over 100W--it's a 95W chip that's running at +0.2V and at a 50% higher frequency--it'll definitely suck a good deal of power itself. I'm going to estimate that it's putting out 130-150W of heat. My question is if your H₂O system can deal with all that heat. If it's a retail system, there's a good chance no. I'm just happy you didn't choose to go with retail TECs, as those are notorious for being underpowered.

EDIT: Almost forgot something...

You did clean out the radiator before using it, right?

EDIT 2: I stopped Prime95'ing at about 3PM or so--ran it for a good 8 hours. I'm Prime95'ing again myself, and I'll be stopping it after 4-6 hours.

As for your thoughts on a new case--I was looking through a number of logs on WC systems... expect a PM in a minute with a number of links to some of the nicer ones I've seen.

EDIT 4/7/08: You hit your performance/noise ratio because of the design. Reading what happens, I'm more afraid of your processor being damaged from constant vibrations then overheating. Since you went with a CPU Block & Pump combo (which I think was a stupid move--since for $30 more you could have got a CPU Lite WC system at Petra's), you won't have a quiet system. That was designed for lower-heat processors and for small-form-factor systems--since low-heat processors are usually in small-form-factor systems.

I'd like to keep this one cool since the fan on it is fairly loud when it wants to be. I've tuned it in rivatuner but prefer the automatic setting. Since i've removed that tuniq tower out of my case though my case temps have dropped about 5 degrees, as with my graphics card.

Yes i cleaned out the radiator did all the safety checks in the book, unfortunately i can't send back my system at the moment. The current setup i have was fairly cheap since a custom system would have cost me around £150 so i opted for a cheaper option. I was more worried about saving space with this case really. Its more then capable of dealing with the heat, however the vibrations may be of concern. It is very secure at the moment and not producing much of a disturbance. My system is actually fairly quiet since i set 50% PWM mode in the BIOS. It seems to be doing just fine at the moment ran core temp and prime on and off for the past two days as well as Everest. My main concern is the stability.

Couldn't go past 3.9ghz since it was wanting way to much power, and upping the vcore didn't seem to help stability. I have a 600W OCZ GameXtreame PSU, and it should be enough to keep that sort of overclock stable, i haven't calculated how much draw that Pump can take off (takes 1 2 pin molex)

P.S. i live in the U.K. Chilled PC and tekheads are the main sellers over here. I defiantly will go with a proper setup next time. Just happy my first time water cooling went relatively ok.

heres the cpu block by the way.

Edit: I'm going to take a guess at your overclock, 3.3?

One site for you...

Petra's Tech Shop

In short, just e-mail Petra and ask for shipping to the UK. It'll end up being significantly less expensive, as you pay in the USD but usually have to pay duty. I am actually looking at the "Petra'sTech CoolKit Elite - Rev.2" for $250 USD (D-Tek FuZion, Laing DDC-3.2 w/ custom acetal top, Swiftech MCR220-QP, other stuff) for myself... the basic version is $220 and the Lite version (single-fan rad) is $140.

Anyways--sorry to hear you can't return the Swiftech Apogee Drive. That pump is loud because of the mounting method--many enthusiasts will use a dampering material, such as Gel-Stuff, or some other dampering method such as hanging the pump. That being said, you obviously cannot do that, because the pump is permanently placed on your block.

At 3.9, you're probably hitting a wall for the CPU. Most Q6600's can get up to 3.6 stable, and it's pretty hard to find Q6600s that can get much north of 3.8, at least for 24/7 machines. At 3.6, that processor should be stable. Again, check your draw. You may also need to add more voltage, regardless of stability tests. When I first got my E2140, I ran Prime95 for about 24 hours in blend. After gaming, I had to up the voltage thrice. The first time was after several (3) hours of gaming it'd randomly lock up. Reboot and it goes up by 0.02V. The second time was after about 8+ hours and a few times a week, it'd do the same random lock up. Up it by 0.02V again. Where I was before at 3GHz (1.3975V set) was stable. I haven't had a random lock up or crash since (2-3 weeks now, I think). In short, reality loads are much different from synthetic loads and mathematical loads. While one or two methods say you're stable, the third may refute that. For voltage, up the voltage after the second or third unexplained crash or lockup. Sometimes it's Windows, sometimes it's just unstable.

As for your PSU--it should be fine. Still, there's no accurate way to measure voltages with software. Period. Those OCZ power supplies aren't exactly the best, but they're also not the worst. For the price you probably paid, I would have went with a Seasonic S12 or M12 500W.

EDIT: Not far off. I'm not done either--I have at least another FSB+10 to test with more-adequate voltage, possibly FSB+19. I know that at current FSB+8, I was able to boot into Windows but quickly crashed. Also for my own load temperatures, I've never seen it go above 60^oC while Prime95'ing in a warm room (80^oF or 26^oC, or more!). In short, I'm very happy. My motherboard's temperature sensor doesn't go above 30^oC either--unless I turn off the side fan.

EDIT 2: I'll be nice...

Well the noise isn't actually that much of a problem the system is pretty quiet at the moment and it doesn't bother me. However i would go for a different setup next time round. The prices in the USA are crazy, the apogee drive cpu block is half the price over there! whats the deal

I was going to guess 3.2 because of the nice round number as FSB but figured you could probably push it a title more 10 extra FSB would bring it up to 3280 - pretty impressive for a 1.6ghz stock CPU. I've heard a lot about the Q9450 being a very cool processor, but the FSB and lower multi being harder to overclock with. I'm quite happy with my current build as it is should last me a good 2-3 years. Might jump on the nehleham band wagon who knows. For now back to stability testing, i'll remember to up the voltage if anything goes a little unstable at least with 3.6ghz i have room to breathe (1.41v)

Hopefully noise will stay low. I'd say keep the pump running at the same speed--don't let it try to auto-regulate if that's even an option. But these USA prices are realistic--I've looked a good bit at computers in Canada and they're priced within 10% of the USA, but for actual components?!? Who woulda thunk it... 50% or MORE on a single part. To me, that's inexcusable--duty does not add 50%, nor does shipping. When you do another system or need to replace yours--Petra's Tech Shop has excellent selection and are very helpful. I found those kits to be very well-selected. Only thing I'd really change is pointing you towards using distilled water after you flush and clean your system. If you get it clean, a drop or two of biocide will keep it clean for months. Many people with closed systems will do maintenance twice a year, or less. Once it's setup, you don't need to do anything more. As I said, I'm really thinking of the Elite package for $250--either with my current system or a future system. Water cooling, good keyboards, and monitors are the only things that nearly always outlast two or three generations of computers.

Wow good guess! I'll be testing FSB410 again, I guess. I had a CPU Nonfunctional error before--forgot what speed at which I had the problem. Sat in front of the computer for about 10 minutes while it tries to boot and I have to switch it off. I got it all fixed up now, though. I know i can get FSB408 or so with more voltage--it won't be that hard. I'm very happy--a $75 CPU that performs similarly overclocked as a $300 processor at stock. Yes--it's about as fast as an E6850 at stock.

As for Nehalem, I'll be waiting for Beckton DP. Yes--DP. It'll be the equivalent of Cloverfield for Conroe--Beckton DP will be 8-core processors with SMT (next-gen HT) and support two to four physical processors, each having controllers for quad-channel DDR2 FB-DIMMs. I'm looking forward to DP over QP--QP loses too much motherboard real estate when I'll be using it with dedicated graphics. I'm looking at no more than $2500.

EDIT: Hit my limit on this chip.



3,248 MHz (406.0*8)
1.3975V set, 1.34-1.36V actual
CPU:RAM is 1:1.00
CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC-RFC-RRD-WR-RTP
5-5-5-16-21-42-3-63-3

I improved SuperPi 1M times as well...
Safe Mode SPi 1M: 19.578 seconds!!!
Normal (unoptimized): 19.836s

My scores will be signifigantly less than yours since my processor is a 1MB cache chip--versus yours which is 2x4MB.

Grats on achieving that high of an overclock! pretty darn impressive, can't believe that budget CPU packs so much of a punch! Haven't ran SuperPi before;

1M normal - 14 seconds (3.6 OC)
Edit: 1M normal - 21 seconds (stock)

Good going on the E2140, I was taking a trip to PC world because my Sister wants a prebuilt computer and i couldn't let them sell her a E2140 at stock knowing that baby's bios would be locked (for some odd reason she won't let me build her a computer despite it being around the same price)

Nehalem looks pretty exciting, the 3 new sockets introduced have somewhat worried me when it comes to upgrade ability. By the looks of things now Lynnfield seems to be the way to go, i thought that intel was only going to increase multithreaded supported over quad cores? Haven't heard of an actual 8 core maybe in the westmere range. Oh well got a while before that comes along Come summer we may see the 4000s from ATI which are supposedly going to bring a 50% increase over the last core. Quite exciting stuff since nvidias 9000 range have been somewhat green yet abysmal.

P.S. couldn't you have tightened those timings to CL4? or would that be to aggressive?

Also i'm thinking if i build again i'd order parts from the USA especially with the prices, heck i might even take a trip over there. (was seriously considering that since newegg would sell my build for cheaper + the cost of a flight to America) thing is with duty and shipping it may be quite expensive. You guys always get the good stuff! IC Diamond 7 carat TC only $7 heck the thermal cleaner cost me $16 and TC usually goes for about that too

As I've said many times before... $75 USD well-spent. Intel did a great thing with this line--priced it very low and it still has all the potential of Conroe. My temperatures look high because of the method the IHS is attached to the core. In short, it's glued on and has a gel as a TIM between the core and IHS. I'm going to look in running without the IHS--my temperatures will be much less. And, all it takes is a heated razor blade. I'm finally a proud member of the 100% overclock club! 103% in a matter of fact...

As for your sister's computer--an E2140/E2160 at stock is plenty fast. Remember that it's about as fast as a Pentium D at 3GHz. That, and depending what she wants to do with it (and what you want to do with it), it's probably best just to run it at stock.

As for Nehalem--I'm looking forward to Intel replacing all their sockets. LGA775 has had a VERY long reign, as has LGA771. Hopefully Intel won't make the same mistake AMD made--having Skt764, Skt940, Skt939, and then SktAM2 for desktop in a very short period of time. If Intel made the same mistake and killed sockets prematurely, they'll likely have a good revolt from the enthusiast communities. Remember that LGA775 was designed for Prescott, just like PGA478 was designed for Northwood. We can basically forget about PGA423--from the original P4. I've never actually seen one--considering that PIII was still top processor for years after P4 was launched. Nehalem will be a first for Intel in several ways--it'll be the first with an IMC and using QPI. From what I've seen, Nehalem will be available at 3.2GHz from launch--considering how well Intel has been with pre-production silicon. Last I heard, they had one system die on them during a presentation, but that was months pre-production. Nehalem is ready to be launched today--but the market isn't yet ready for it. Especially considering that 45nm quads are hard to find and Intel makes a heap and really is giving AMD a beating with everything they have...

As for Radeon HD4000 series? 50% more in each GPU. That means RV670's 320SP will become RV770's 480SP. 50% more silicon available doesn't necessarily mean 50% faster--I'm guessing a good 30-40% over HD3000. Prices look very competitive--and ATI is probably going to give nVidia a nice hit--possibly swap positions again to be on top.

EDIT: For timings? I can't get any more aggressive. It's ValuRAM--$20/gig DDR2 800 and it runs at and slight above rated speeds.

I'm surprised the 45nm craze has brought about pretty decent energy efficiency standard. Most of the load got taken by the server market. Heck an X3350 is just a Q9450 with a xeon sticker slapped onto it. Many people forget about that though

Congratulations on achieving a 100% OC (didn't realize that lol) think i'd be able to hit a 100% OC with my Q6600 ? Might put my my old P3 on Liquid nitrogen to go Join you (might have trouble getting that stuff though) That's actually a monster PC in terms of price/performance. How much did it cost in the end?

Intel does most resizes right (except for 90nm!)--45nm is awesome for power savings under idle and under load. I was thinking of an X3350, but NewEgg seems afraid to stock it. If NewEgg is good for one thing, it's selection. If NewEgg is bad for one thing, it's selection of brand new parts. Once something new hits market, they stock a few and usually bump the price up after the first load is purchased and shipped. Anyways--for Xeon v. Core 2, there are some differences. The most noticeable difference is the prefetchers are different--Core 2's are designed for everyday tasks and Xeon's are designed for professional workloads. It doesn't change much though. Also, Xeons are higher binned than Core 2. You'll see many more LV chips with Xeon then you will with Core 2. Intel has a large portion of its market going towards workstations, servers, and mainframes--meaning they will do their best to give those segments the best of the best. I think it's much better to spend the $20 more on an equal Xeon then it is to risk having a higher-voltage processor.

Thanks. As for your Q6600--definitely no on conventional cooling. You should be able to get 4.8GHz under N₂, CO₂, under Phase/Cascade, or possibly with a Chiller (water cooling with antifreeze and and air conditioner--very exotic). Those methods are all quite exotic and not for 24/7 use--and putting your only computer under anything but a chiller is likely to give you a dead processor in a few hours to a few months, depending on how&what you do.

As for N₂, you should be able to find it if you call up several chemical companies. It won't be cheap though--and you'll likely need at least 40L and a good-sized dewar. Also, brush up on pots and insulation. I'm not going to go that exotic yet--but it's likely my next system will be dual-processor and under water. As for the P3--is the motherboard able to handle it? I'd say go around some forums (like XS--where I gave you the link to two worklogs, one on the Cosmos S) and look at the old stuff.

As for my system? I estimate $850. I coughed up $50 for a second case--but it had free shipping and I could use my computer with the side panel on! It really is a great system--I wouldn't change very much. The only thing notable that I'd change is going with a Radeon HD 3850 512MB instead of the 256MB. Still, the HD3850 brought 8800GTS 320 performance at $100 less. Next upgrade I'll definitely do is more RAM. I don't think I'll do liquid cooling on this system... unless I do a single loop--one of Petra's CoolKit Lite kits. Other than that, I found it to be absolutely killer for price/performance. It's very powerful, especially for an $800 price tag. I saw another guy's build at the same time as mine... he got the short end of the stick. A faster processor (E6750), similar motherboard, better RAM (2x1GB--I want more ability to upgrade than that), and a GeForce 8600GT. Yeah--not so good for a 3D gamer.