We're not pulling out the knuckledusters yet

But Spotify can't be used on the go, I find it to have a smaller range of music and you require an internet connection etc.

And at your last post, I've found it to be completely different - the genius bar in my opinion is incredibly useful.


You obviously have not seen a flame topic

So you think OSX is worth more than £1000? Look, it may be good but come on... even Windows 1.1 was $99 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk

Portability? Spotify's got that. Why would you want to download them anyway? I would only ever need that if i were making a video, and then i have a big enough music collection already... and then there's beemp3.com... Besides, if i want to watch Video's i'll do it on youtube Spotify's much faster, isn't effected by the stupid can't watch this in the UK thing. The odd advert is enough to put up with, especailly the ones about safe sex... they make me lulz.

Oh right, so basically F1?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3iM1qr-oC4



You're quite ignorant of the facts here. I was refering to the first coloured plastic design of an Apple Mac. And he did not 'steal code', that's practically impossible. Besides, if we're going along that route, Steve stole the idea of an Operating System.

I like this thread. It's a good way of arguing about Macs and PCs and such like without getting warned *looks at last few entreis into warn log*. No, i think we need something like this to stop it getting out of hand in other topics. I was going to do this myself a while ago but i couldn't be bothered.

Wow, that is an amazing advert *book marks* But nowadays, Vista is more expensive than macs


So I can transfer songs right to my iPod with spotify, control it from my iPod, watch full episodes of Criminal Minds and Family Guy all from Spotify?


No, although the Mac help function is amazing. The genius bar actually exists...

Thanks for the video :-) It is much slower than on a Mac, though :-(

I like PC's better. People say macs are better for artistic stuff but I actually like the creative programs for windows better. And on the commercials they say that macs have better tech support but when we had a problem with a program before the tech support was great. You were able to talk to a real person and they did the thing where they take control of your computer and they fixed it. And I also hate that lots of programs don't work for macs. And they are way too expensive.

Vista is more expensive than macs? That doesn't make sense. I can get a copy of Windows Vista for £60, find me a mac for that.

No, as i said, i use Youtube for videos, Spotify for listening to music and my 15 day music collection for anything else to do with music. It's the perfect combination for me.

Yeah... it's just the help function. What's different about it? By the way, that last remark was low

I'm merely going by their official market price:
Mac website: $129.00
Vista website: $319.95


So you listen to you 15 day music collection on Spotify?


The genius actually exists in real life, you can stub your toe on it, you know that, right?

The help function is amazing, it is so quick at finding things. For example in Word, instead of spending ages looking for the right thing in some strange location, I just type in "header". Similar to Spotlight:



Have you tried the Print Screen stuff on OS X that's incredibly useful as well...

How is development on Mac?
What language?
In Windows you have VB, its just like sentences, just less sense.

Seriously, here, you get a Mac for 10 000 NOK.
And a 64-bit Vista with 6GB RAM, 1,24TB HDD and a great CPU and GPU for 6 990 NOK.
Whats the better choice?
A 64-bit can beat Mac in performance at any time and play Halo 3 smoothly. (if it was an Xbox 360..)

X Code is very easy to use. Can you get simpler?



Norway, right? But everything is really expensive there...


I have a PS3 for playing games, though.

That market price is outdated. As i said, i can get Vista HP for £60 from Amazon, and i'm not aware of anywhere else that you can get OSX.

No, as i said, i use Youtube for Video's, Spotify for listening to music and my own collection for video editing and putting on my mp3 player. There's also beemp3, which i get everything i don't already have from.



Seems pretty much exactly the same. And i think you'll find screenshoting has been around for a long time... longer on windows. I remember a Correl screen capture program i had... i needed a floppy disc all to itself And i tried it on a mac running windows, i couldn't find the right key. Really, i hit everything, i had to use on screen keyboard in the end.

If I buy an OS, I want to get it from PC World or currys where I'm sure I can go back for help.

In my experience, F1 loads after 20 seconds, provides irrelevant results and then gives me instructions on how to do it. I just want to know where the button is.


So on a PC it takes a picture of any program, or a selected area, or the entire screen and saves them in any format to any area you want? Times have changed

Why would you need to go back for help? All the discs are identical, and if it's faulty then you can send it back.

That's basically what F1 does. But really, there's not much i can imagine using it for, and if i have a problem that i can't solve then it's pretty serious and i'd come to Sals anyway

This is what i do with a screenshot:

*Prt Scr*
*Paint
*Ctrl V*
*Crop*
*Save*
*Upload*
*Post*

It's a good system, i like it.

Just setting it up and things...

As I said finding tools.



So say you're at an rs party, you have to take one pic at a time, missing the action? That must suck. On a mac you press cmd, shift space or 3 or 4 and then upload...

I think we can all agree that service packs suck for both systems.

Setting it up isn't hard. If there are any problems then i'm sure i for one could work my way round them.

If i played rs anymore and i knew there was going to be something i wanted to capture then i would have already set up video capturing software, like i used to show you how to drag and drop. Cam Studio's good, but it's not the best quality. Hypercam is better, but you get a stupid watermark...

Not just rs, anything really. And I'd imagine the setup to be fine, just amazon wouldn't be choice for problems.

PC, they cost less, have better games, and are more user friendly i have found.

I use a PC at home and a MAC at school, so i would say i'm pretty much on both for equal amounts of time.

Linux


OS X, of the two listed. Personally, I like that OS X 10.0 and up is built off Unix. Also, as far as price goes, yes, the Mac core is a little more, but when you buy a PC you spent 200-300$ easy on upgrades. When you buy new hardware on a PC, you'll probably need some sort of driver (or four). Macs are *usually* plug & play.


~Dark

Edit: and let the flaming of me begin.

People buy hardware upgrades for PCs because they can. I bet one day when Apple allows you to upgrade your hardware, the dumb excuse that "oh it already has what it needs" will be gone. ;)

IMOIMOIMO:

Windows < OSX (Not including gaming)
Custom built PC > iMac
PC Laptop = Mac Laptop

Now this is fairly vague, most of these points I could argue either way, but that's basically how I feel.
I will no longer touch this topic, as to not get my hands dirty.

To be fair, Macs are 64-bit. But I agree with you about the performance.


Definitely agreed. People that want to fiddle with their computers buy non-Mac products because Macs are just non-upgrade friendly.


That surprises me to be honest. PC World and the like are normally the reserve of computer beginners. You wouldn't see me dead in one of those shops


Lol leave us to do all the hard work, why don't you

Basically what Magical summed up here is that OSX is worth over £1000 and they would rather pay £200 for an operating system than £60 for no apparent reason.

Its another economical system in Norway.
We have higher values.
A phone without a operator is from 1 000 to 6 000, and with operator is from 2 000 down to 200.
A EeePC is around 2 500 or 3 000.

And by these means, you can save 3 000 by buying a gaming PC. (Its relativley much)
But in total you get more, you can use it with Avid MediaComposer. (Its the biggest hog of a video editor, but very good)
And many many other things that need much power.
Or, if you buy many, you could hook them up into a single PC and use all the power in one PC.

Also, here is a example of Visual Basic:

Easy?
This code would do as it says, show Form 1, make the width 640 and height 480.
Its as easy as it gets on Windows, and still advanced.

In terms of the developer tools and support for Mac I think it's far simpler and advanced.

You think wrongly:

http://www.shahine.com/omar/ProgrammingMacVsWindows.aspx

And also:

http://mac.elated.com/2008/12/12/10-ways-t...er-than-mac-os/

And then:

http://cityblogger.com/archives/2007/01/24...er-than-windows

Wow, I can also get articles off google.
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/101-undeniabl...etter-than-pcs/

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3446

Face it, any article off google just have filler points such as better advertisements in my link, or worse keyboard short cuts in yours...

Have you ever even tried programing on a Mac? You can create a fully functional text editor in around 10 minutes...

Five of the main points in that article are that Apple produce better advertisements, Macs can run windows, Macs are cheaper, Macs create fanboys and they make nicer paperweights. Now anybody with more than... several brain cells can see that those have nothing to do with the topic or are just a downright lie. The other points had nothing to do with anything either... did you even read that?

And that second article basically said that the SZ series was better in every way but somehow managed to conclude that the macbook was it's equal, for no apparent reason.

No, i haven't tried programming on a mac. I've barely tried programming on a PC, but i know enough about it to make a passable judgment. But i also know for a fact that you can create a text editor in ten minutes with VB, so no win there. Hang on, is VB anything like Basic? But more visual? If that's true, then it wins hands down for me

There was a reason if you read it all...

That was my point, anyone can go onto google and get a random useless arcticle. Like being able to use any font I want for my desktop? WTF do I want to do that for. I'd much rather be able to use two os.

So your text editor will have a working menu bar, colour and font changing. Customizable menu bar for users, printing, saving etc in 10 minutes.

I skimmed through it and read the conclusion. I couldn't find any reason.

I read my articles, they were actually relevant and supported my point. Since i'd rather not waste my time i can't understand your second part, which one's which?

Yep: http://www.devx.com/getHelpOn/10MinuteSolution/20389

Currently if you buy a Mac you get a free 8gb iPod Touch.


THAT STILL DOESN'T JUSTIFY THE PRICE!!!

What don't you get? That looks like it requires a lot more work than on an Apple.

ONCE AGAIN Mac people ALWAYS obsessed with the looks!

Nah, if they really were obsessed with the looks why would they buy a black and white box? It's not very imaginative.



iMax monitor ftw!

Nah, looks horrid... (and black and gray look even worse IMO). But seriously, coding looks like a lot more work.

Most definitely Mac, sleek, user-friendly. It's one huge let-down is that most companies make games for the PC, not the Mac.

Because they don't want to lower quality and gameplay by 20% or redo the whole thing because a Mac doesn't have the specs to run it.

It's not. It's practically an iMax monitor, it doesn't matter what it looks like, it's an iMax monitor... for your home!

Coding is not a lot more work. That's the end of that.

Did you know that looking on a dark monitor is healthy for your eyes?
Looking at a all white one is the worst because your eyes both see the dark and light, so by being dark, the light blends and you get more focus on the screen.
A light one, in the other hand, disorders the light effect, and your eye need to concentrate multiple about the light and the white.
This is just like looking at the sun, if you have your hand infront it gets black because your eye adjusts so you can see the light, but not the darker with less light.
So, when its light on screen, and the frame is dark, you get a more comfort in looking, because you use less of your eye to adjust.

And of course they make most games for Windows, its more people using it, and that you are very free with the game.
Like Microsoft Game Studios.
They made a secret feature in Midtown Madness 2 to have ability to add vehicles and tracks and other mods.
They make quality, because they limit the runnable to requirements.
Not 1 where its all the same.

And about phones, Nokia doesnt rip, i know that.
Does iphone have S60 and resistive screen?
Does it have a system from 1990s?
Nokia bought Symbian, and developed it, so why not use the ability for touch?
Touch wasnt even Apples invention.

Realistically...

The malware thing is all Mac has going for them and even that's starting to come to a end. We already have trojans and a rather large botnet that won't be going away anytime soon.

Stability using both I honestly can't say Mac is necessarily more stable then Windows the only crash I have experienced on either is from applications crashing and that's do to poorly coded programs which is neither Apple's or Microsoft's fault.
They are even starting to lose on aesthetics front as PC OEMs build much better looking machines.


OSX is a nice OS but Apple is holding it back with there closed proprietary system because the profit from every aspect of it.

CPU dies: Go to the Apple store
GPU dies: Go to the Apple store
Motherboard dies: Go to the Apple store
RAM dies: You can replace this but the average user will be... Going to the Apple store
HDD: Dies replaceable but these things are so hard to get to in Macs requiring removing the screen and a bunch of other bs so you'll be... Going to the Apple store.
And when you have to make these trips when your warranty expires you can be sure it will be so expensive to fix you might as well buy a new one.

With PC's on the other hand everything is affordable and easy to replace.
Programs are vast
Yes we get malware but so will you. Ironically it plays well into a famous quote in history "A man who trades security for freedom deserves neither" and with the advance of trojans targeting OSX I think it plays out nicely.




OSX is not a true 64 bit OS

http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/64bit.html:

If it is not 64-bit, does that mean that Apple are lying on their own site?
But I completely agree with the other points you made.

whoa. Got back from camp and realized this has gone far. (Go magical!)

Anyways, keep up the good fight

I have only tried a Mac once it was ok but i have always had a Pc (cuz it was cheaper ) i dond't realley know about Mac that much but recentley i have tried it out again and i like it a lot i think i am gonna go with Mac (if i could afford it! )

Why care about looks on the OS when you can change it into anyhting you want?
Currently, i have a VS that looks precisely like Mac and i have RocketDock.
No, its not copycat, but its a free theme made by a them artist, completely from scratch without copying gfx.
So, no point with the visual looks, thats Windows' speciality.

And i really agree with Emo Nemo on some of it.
Why buy a Mac that has restricted access to hardware?
And about the viruses, there will become more when more ppl use Mac.
Isnt it clearly they go for the big amount then the less?

I would never be tempted to buy a Mac, even less when they bundle another apple product.
They put to little professionalism in it, its not advanced enough for me to use, because i need to have full access to all, and i like doing technical stuff. And i like to customize my computer. (Themes, hardware)
And also i just love my new surround system, i even got instructions in RealTek on where to plug it in! (It used 2 cables, confusing.. )

And on a PC you can run several DOS games directly without Dosbox, because some are without a desired framework.

It doesnt crash unless there is an unstable app.
Or if its Microsoft Update going on. (That forces you to restart sometimes, its annoying, but needed for the PC to not be hanging after)

Just saw this article on Lifehacker comparing the interface features of both Windows 7 and Mac OS X Leopard. As it's quite a long article I won't quote it all here, but I can tell you Lifehacker's verdicts:

Mac Finder vs Windows Explorer: Draw

Mac Quick Look vs Windows File Preview: Mac Wins

Mac Dock vs Windows Taskbar: Windows Wins

Windows System Tray vs Mac Menu Bar: Windows Wins

Mac Time Machine vs Windows Backup: Mac Wins

Windows Aero Peek vs Mac ? (no known Mac equivalent): Windows Wins

So according to this article, Windows 7 is a little better than Leopard with three wins instead of two. Obviously this is just one person's opinion, but I find it interesting all the same, particularly the reasons they give in the article for their verdicts

What the hell's a Windows Aero Peek?

I assume it's a display theme... still, from Vista onwards the Recovery system is a hell of a lot better, so i'd say it's at least a draw. And File Previewing? I can't say they've really mastered the main points of an operating system

Windows aero peek is when you hover your mouse over one of the icons on the taskbar (one that has an open window) and it makes everything else transparent except that window.

Here's a Lifehacker article explaining Windows Aero Peek. It's things like thumbnail previews of applications, windows automatically sizing themselves, and the little button on the taskbar that you hover over to show the desktop. I use Windows 7 and I find it very useful.


Lol I agree that they could have focused on more important points, but I think the idea was that they were comparing the interfaces. I presume Backup got featured because of Time Machine's fancy interface

Oh right...

Thanks

Mac most definitely. I mean I understand for you gamers who use PC. But if you get Parallels or another program that allows you to toggle between Windows and Mac OS X... so you don't even really need a PC . Yes, if you want a super insane graphics card and tons of memory, a gaming PC would fit. But overall... Mac is the winner, in my opinion. I can't stand viruses or malware at all. On my PC i've had smitfraud (if you've heard of it) which almost destroyed my computer. I've yet to have a problem with my Mac...