Sal's RuneScape Forum > Microsoft Browser Comparison Chart

Cattius

Jun 19 2009, 01:14 PM

Okay, I decided I would post this because it made me so angry when I saw it

QUOTE (Lifehacker)

Spoiler: Click to Toggle the Spoiler.

[Close]

Internet Explorer 8 is by far the best browser Microsoft's ever released, but most of our readers are happily using a better alternative like Firefox or Chrome. Microsoft's not happy about this, so they've created an absurd piece of propaganda to win you back.

This browser comparison chart pits IE8 against Firefox and Chrome and puts IE8 on top time after time, but in very dubious categories. Each row comes with its own ridiculous set of comments justifying the seemingly meaningless checkmarks, like this note on customizability:

Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 – right out of the box.

Interesting, since none of the Firefox extensions I install add any IE8 functionality. We've given Microsoft props for significantly improving Internet Explorer in the latest release, but this chart feels like dirty pool to us. Let's hear what you think of this insane (to us, at least) chart in the comments.

Article

So, discuss. Do you think Microsoft were right to make this comparison chart?

My personal opinion is that, as Lifehacker says, this comparison chart of Microsoft's is absurd. It's so biased it's sickening, and most of it is either blatant lies or a twisted version of the truth.

Caboose

Jun 19 2009, 01:26 PM

Security: Firefox
Privacy: Chrome
Ease of Use: Chrome
Web Standards: Probably Right
Developer Tools: I'd say Chrome
Reliability: I've never had Chrome crash on me, and when Firefox does it saves all of my Tabs. IE8 crashes a lot and takes forever to reboot, when i usually find me staring at my homepage.
Customization: If the features are already there (which they aren't) then it isn't an option, so it isn't customization numbnuts.

Emo_Nemo

Jun 19 2009, 09:14 PM

Security: People are going to hate me for this one but actually from a security standpoint IE in sandboxed mode is the most secure browser along with its other protection mechanisms.

Privacy: Google has had bouts of issues with privacy and calls home way to damn much. IE possibly wins this but im not completely sure.

Ease of use: This is a toss up on opinion to be honest with you.

Web standards: IE does have the best CSS 2.1 compliance this has been proven but other standards not so much.

Developer tools: This is definitely a tie between Chrome and IE. FF can't even hold a light to the ease of use both of these browsers provide in testing and organizing code.

Reliability: They do have FF and Chrome on this. The first browser to add these features and the first to have both.

Add ons: IE8 out of the box does have more features then FF.

Flame me if you want but I judged these while looking at the competition and not on blind hate.

opac

Jun 19 2009, 10:39 PM

Yea it's pretty biased.

Security: Firefox
Privacy: Firefox
Ease of use: Chrome
Standards: All a tie
Developer Tools: Chrome
Realibility: It depends

Nrox

Jun 19 2009, 11:16 PM

A more truthful chart:

Security - False, it's Firefox. IE8 pretty much misses half the phishing sites thrown at it.
Privacy - Tie
Ease of use - Dubious, not commenting
Web standards - IE8 crashes on Acid3 when it gets to 13/100, so Chrome & Firefox
Developer tools: Tie since Firefox has great addons like Firebug
Reliability: Firefox and Chrome. Microsoft should be ashamed of calling IE8 "reliable." Probably more reliable than Windows ME but not much else.
Customizability: Firefox, hands down.
Compatibility: Dubious. The only reason why IE is more compatible is because of frustrated developers having to purposely write malformed HTML in order for IE to properly display it. Or maybe it's because of developers who don't care about cross-browser compatibility.
Manageability: Dubious
Performance: Chrome, but just barely

Cattius

Jun 20 2009, 03:07 AM

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 20 2009, 02:14 AM)

Security: People are going to hate me for this one but actually from a security standpoint IE in sandboxed mode is the most secure browser along with its other protection mechanisms.

Google Chrome and Firefox both use 'sandboxing' security models, particularly Chrome. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(software)#Security and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Firefox#Security

Privacy: Google has had bouts of issues with privacy and calls home way to damn much. IE possibly wins this but im not completely sure.

I wouldn't say Firefox is any worse than IE with privacy. And Google only 'calls home' about your Google habits so it can give you good search suggestions and so forth.

Ease of use: This is a toss up on opinion to be honest with you.

Agreed.

Web standards: IE does have the best CSS 2.1 compliance this has been proven but other standards not so much.

Developer tools: This is definitely a tie between Chrome and IE. FF can't even hold a light to the ease of use both of these browsers provide in testing and organizing code.

Reliability: They do have FF and Chrome on this. The first browser to add these features and the first to have both.

Google Chrome has both tab isolation and crash recovery features...

Add ons: IE8 out of the box does have more features then FF.

Flame me if you want but I judged these while looking at the competition and not on blind hate.

Anyway, now that the discussion's started I'll add my own version of the chart

Spoiler: Click to Toggle the Spoiler.

Security: All the browsers have sharpened up security, but personally I would say Google Chrome wins, and Firefox and IE8 tie. However, IE is obviously faced with more malware as it has a larger market share, so malware authors write for it.

Privacy: IE8 and Firefox tie, Chrome is a bit behind because of all the fuss people have made about its privacy. Personally what Chrome does (sends info about my Google usage) doesn't bother me.

Ease of Use: All of them are easy to use. Personal preferences I suppose.

Web Standards: Firefox and Chrome tie. IE8 still behind, although Microsoft have done quite a bit of work on web standards in IE.

Developer Tools: Tie between Chrome and IE, although there are add-ons for Firefox that can even the odds. And let's face it, most people won't even use the Developer Tools anyway.

Reliability: Chrome and Firefox tie (Chrome has tab isolation and crash recovery, Firefox has crash recovery and is very stable anyway), IE8 is a little behind because it tends to crash more for me.

Add-ons: You can't beat Firefox on this. IE8 is WAY behind on the customization front. Chrome is last as it currently doesn't support add-ons, but hey, there's always bookmarklets.

Compatibility: I've never found a site that wouldn't work in Chrome or Firefox. If one exists it probably only doesn't work because the developer has had to use poor standards in order to make IE work.

Manageability: I'm not dumb, if I have a problem I'll post on Sals or Google it. Microsoft's 'support' is normally rubbish anyway. So all the browsers tie here.

Performance: I'm going to say it's a tie between all three, as the speed comparison charts I've seen tend to contradict one another.

My conclusion: It's a draw between Chrome and Firefox. IE8 comes third. I would have added more browsers to my comparison but these three are the only 'current' browsers that I use regularly, so I can't judge any others.

[Close]

Arianna

Jun 20 2009, 06:52 AM

Oh no, Microsoft is advertising its own product. WATCH OUT THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING!

Cattius

Jun 20 2009, 06:57 AM

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 12:52 PM)

Oh no, Microsoft is advertising its own product. WATCH OUT THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING!

Advertising, and totally biased propaganda that lies about competitor's products, are two completely different things.

Haleth

Jun 20 2009, 07:14 AM

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 01:52 PM)

Oh no, Microsoft is advertising its own product. WATCH OUT THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING!

I thought you'd reply with "WHAT, NO OPERA???!?".

Arianna

Jun 20 2009, 07:18 AM

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 01:57 PM)

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 12:52 PM)

Oh no, Microsoft is advertising its own product. WATCH OUT THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING!

Advertising, and totally biased propaganda that lies about competitor's products, are two completely different things.

One is advertising, and the other is false advertising...which is still advertising. How many adverts tell the truth, actually?

QUOTE (Haleth @ Jun 20 2009, 02:14 PM)

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 01:52 PM)

Oh no, Microsoft is advertising its own product. WATCH OUT THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING!

I thought you'd reply with "WHAT, NO OPERA???!?".

Big Opera-shaped bomb to land in Redmond in 4, 3, 2, 1...
(Besides, Opera was excluded from the comparison because it is vastly superior.

)

Haleth

Jun 20 2009, 07:20 AM

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 01:18 PM)

QUOTE (Haleth @ Jun 20 2009, 02:14 PM)

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 01:52 PM)

Oh no, Microsoft is advertising its own product. WATCH OUT THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING!

I thought you'd reply with "WHAT, NO OPERA???!?".

Big Opera-shaped bomb to land in Redmond in 4, 3, 2, 1...
(Besides, Opera was excluded from the comparison because it is vastly superior.

)

You've got a point, Safari's not on that list either.

Cattius

Jun 20 2009, 07:21 AM

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 12:18 PM)

One is advertising, and the other is false advertising...which is still advertising. How many adverts tell the truth, actually?

They are allowed to 'distort' the truth to suit their own purposes, but blatant lies in advertising are illegal.

Arianna

Jun 20 2009, 07:36 AM

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 02:21 PM)

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 12:18 PM)

One is advertising, and the other is false advertising...which is still advertising. How many adverts tell the truth, actually?

They are allowed to 'distort' the truth to suit their own purposes, but blatant lies in advertising are illegal.

You sincerely expect Microsoft to tell the truth?

Spirit Shield

Jun 20 2009, 07:38 AM

bltent lies. im trying out chrome today. expecting good standerds.

Cattius

Jun 20 2009, 07:55 AM

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 12:36 PM)

You sincerely expect Microsoft to tell the truth?

Yes, I expect them not to lie if lying in advertising is against the law, which it is.

QUOTE (goth fairy)

im trying out chrome today. expecting good standerds.

It'll live up to your expectations

I regularly use Chrome, especially on Windows 7 where the transparency effects work excellently.

Emo_Nemo

Jun 20 2009, 01:11 PM

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 07:57 AM)

QUOTE (Arianna @ Jun 20 2009, 12:52 PM)

Oh no, Microsoft is advertising its own product. WATCH OUT THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING!

Advertising, and totally biased propaganda that lies about competitor's products, are two completely different things.

Thank god Apple or Linux don't do this!

Oh wait..

Cattius

Jun 20 2009, 02:13 PM

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 20 2009, 06:11 PM)

Thank god Apple or Linux don't do this!

Oh wait..

Just because other companies do it as well doesn't make it right.

And I've seen Apple lying/twisting the truth on their site, but Linux?

Stobbo

Jun 20 2009, 02:18 PM

There not exactly lying, there more choosing very specific criteria to let IE8 come out top. You could put any product at the top if you were very specific in the criteria you used.

Emo_Nemo

Jun 20 2009, 02:20 PM

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 03:13 PM)

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 20 2009, 06:11 PM)

Thank god Apple or Linux don't do this!

Oh wait..

Just because other companies do it as well doesn't make it right.

And I've seen Apple lying/twisting the truth on their site, but Linux?

Linux spreads propaganda as well not on tv but through online media.

Cattius

Jun 20 2009, 02:21 PM

QUOTE (Stobbo @ Jun 20 2009, 08:18 PM)

There not exactly lying, there more choosing very specific criteria to let IE8 come out top. You could put any product at the top if you were very specific in the criteria you used.

There are sections that aren't true though. For example:

QUOTE

Only Internet Explorer 8 has both tab isolation and crash recovery features; Firefox and Chrome have one or the other.

This is wrong as Chrome has both tab isolation and crash recovery, so they should have at least let it tie with IE.

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 20 2009, 08:20 PM)

Linux spreads propaganda as well not on tv but through online media.

I haven't ever seen them lie though.

Caboose

Jun 20 2009, 02:27 PM

But even by their reasoning (which is wrong) Firefox should win customization.

QUOTE

Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 – right out of the box.

Many? But not all. So there are more on Firefox. Firefox has more add ons. And it works right out of the box? How is that customization? It's not, you don't get to choose.

Cattius

Jun 20 2009, 02:32 PM

QUOTE (Caboose @ Jun 20 2009, 08:27 PM)

But even by their reasoning (which is wrong) Firefox should win customization.

QUOTE

Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 – right out of the box.

Many? But not all. So there are more on Firefox. Firefox has more add ons. And it works right out of the box? How is that customization? It's not, you don't get to choose.

I completely agree, almost all of the parts that aren't lies have crazy reasoning behind them.

I think we should lobby Microsoft until they remove this chart

Day

Jun 21 2009, 07:54 PM

You guys are over-reacting. "Absurd Chart"? It's not like they are going to put up a chart showing how much FireFox is better than IE. They want downloads.

And it is definitely not biased. No way. NO advertisements are biased at all. NONE! The truth is this- if you see an advertisement that says "CALL OF DUTY IS THE BEST GAME OUT THERE!", how would you know that is was the best game for you? Like this chart- "IE8 IS THE BEST BROWSER FOR YOU!" but that may not be true. It's all advertising and promoting, guys. Get over it.

Although, personally, I prefer Chrome and Firefox a lot over IE8.

redmonke

Jun 21 2009, 09:34 PM

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 21 2009, 07:54 PM)

You guys are over-reacting. "Absurd Chart"? It's not like they are going to put up a chart showing how much FireFox is better than IE. They want downloads.

And it is definitely not biased. No way. NO advertisements are biased at all. NONE! The truth is this- if you see an advertisement that says "CALL OF DUTY IS THE BEST GAME OUT THERE!", how would you know that is was the best game for you? Like this chart- "IE8 IS THE BEST BROWSER FOR YOU!" but that may not be true. It's all advertising and promoting, guys. Get over it.

Although, personally, I prefer Chrome and Firefox a lot over IE8.

On the CoD games they usually have quotes from IGN, GameInformer, and all the big magazines that say "AMAZING" or "GAME OF THE YEAR".

It's like making a fake video game review then quoting it on the game.

Emo_Nemo

Jun 21 2009, 09:40 PM

QUOTE (redmonke @ Jun 21 2009, 10:34 PM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 21 2009, 07:54 PM)

You guys are over-reacting. "Absurd Chart"? It's not like they are going to put up a chart showing how much FireFox is better than IE. They want downloads.

And it is definitely not biased. No way. NO advertisements are biased at all. NONE! The truth is this- if you see an advertisement that says "CALL OF DUTY IS THE BEST GAME OUT THERE!", how would you know that is was the best game for you? Like this chart- "IE8 IS THE BEST BROWSER FOR YOU!" but that may not be true. It's all advertising and promoting, guys. Get over it.

Although, personally, I prefer Chrome and Firefox a lot over IE8.

On the CoD games they usually have quotes from IGN, GameInformer, and all the big magazines that say "AMAZING" or "GAME OF THE YEAR".

It's like making a fake video game review then quoting it on the game.

The thing is that everything on this chart is true to a point.

Everyone overexadderates in marketing.

redmonke

Jun 21 2009, 09:52 PM

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 21 2009, 09:40 PM)

QUOTE (redmonke @ Jun 21 2009, 10:34 PM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 21 2009, 07:54 PM)

You guys are over-reacting. "Absurd Chart"? It's not like they are going to put up a chart showing how much FireFox is better than IE. They want downloads.

And it is definitely not biased. No way. NO advertisements are biased at all. NONE! The truth is this- if you see an advertisement that says "CALL OF DUTY IS THE BEST GAME OUT THERE!", how would you know that is was the best game for you? Like this chart- "IE8 IS THE BEST BROWSER FOR YOU!" but that may not be true. It's all advertising and promoting, guys. Get over it.

Although, personally, I prefer Chrome and Firefox a lot over IE8.

On the CoD games they usually have quotes from IGN, GameInformer, and all the big magazines that say "AMAZING" or "GAME OF THE YEAR".

It's like making a fake video game review then quoting it on the game.

The thing is that everything on this chart is true to a point.

Everyone overexadderates in marketing.

A phony review of a game is true to a point, too. They are actually quoting directly from the review.

But it's the validity that counts.

Day

Jun 21 2009, 10:01 PM

QUOTE (redmonke @ Jun 21 2009, 07:52 PM)

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 21 2009, 09:40 PM)

QUOTE (redmonke @ Jun 21 2009, 10:34 PM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 21 2009, 07:54 PM)

You guys are over-reacting. "Absurd Chart"? It's not like they are going to put up a chart showing how much FireFox is better than IE. They want downloads.

And it is definitely not biased. No way. NO advertisements are biased at all. NONE! The truth is this- if you see an advertisement that says "CALL OF DUTY IS THE BEST GAME OUT THERE!", how would you know that is was the best game for you? Like this chart- "IE8 IS THE BEST BROWSER FOR YOU!" but that may not be true. It's all advertising and promoting, guys. Get over it.

Although, personally, I prefer Chrome and Firefox a lot over IE8.

On the CoD games they usually have quotes from IGN, GameInformer, and all the big magazines that say "AMAZING" or "GAME OF THE YEAR".

It's like making a fake video game review then quoting it on the game.

The thing is that everything on this chart is true to a point.

Everyone overexadderates in marketing.

A phony review of a game is true to a point, too. They are actually quoting directly from the review.

But it's the validity that counts.

No... Red... I wasn't talking directly about CoD... I was just throwing an example out there. I could have said the Linux operating system, and I would have gotten the same point across.

@Emo_Nemo

Exactly. But you spelled exaggerate wrong

Cattius

Jun 22 2009, 11:18 AM

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 22 2009, 03:40 AM)

The thing is that everything on this chart is true to a point.

Everyone overexadderates in marketing.

Did you not read my previous post?

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 08:21 PM)

There are sections that aren't true though. For example:

QUOTE

Only Internet Explorer 8 has both tab isolation and crash recovery features; Firefox and Chrome have one or the other.

This is wrong as Chrome has both tab isolation and crash recovery, so they should have at least let it tie with IE.

Caboose

Jun 22 2009, 11:19 AM

Or indeed mine:

QUOTE (Caboose @ Jun 20 2009, 08:27 PM)

But even by their reasoning (which is wrong) Firefox should win customization.

QUOTE

Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 – right out of the box.

Many? But not all. So there are more on Firefox. Firefox has more add ons. And it works right out of the box? How is that customization? It's not, you don't get to choose.

redmonke

Jun 22 2009, 01:11 PM

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 21 2009, 10:01 PM)

QUOTE (redmonke @ Jun 21 2009, 07:52 PM)

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 21 2009, 09:40 PM)

QUOTE (redmonke @ Jun 21 2009, 10:34 PM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 21 2009, 07:54 PM)

You guys are over-reacting. "Absurd Chart"? It's not like they are going to put up a chart showing how much FireFox is better than IE. They want downloads.

And it is definitely not biased. No way. NO advertisements are biased at all. NONE! The truth is this- if you see an advertisement that says "CALL OF DUTY IS THE BEST GAME OUT THERE!", how would you know that is was the best game for you? Like this chart- "IE8 IS THE BEST BROWSER FOR YOU!" but that may not be true. It's all advertising and promoting, guys. Get over it.

Although, personally, I prefer Chrome and Firefox a lot over IE8.

On the CoD games they usually have quotes from IGN, GameInformer, and all the big magazines that say "AMAZING" or "GAME OF THE YEAR".

It's like making a fake video game review then quoting it on the game.

The thing is that everything on this chart is true to a point.

Everyone overexadderates in marketing.

A phony review of a game is true to a point, too. They are actually quoting directly from the review.

But it's the validity that counts.

No... Red... I wasn't talking directly about CoD... I was just throwing an example out there. I could have said the Linux operating system, and I would have gotten the same point across.

@Emo_Nemo

Exactly. But you spelled exaggerate wrong

No... Day... I wasn't talking directly about CoD... I was just throwing an example out there. I could have said anything that's been reviewed, and I would have gotten the same point across.

Day

Jun 22 2009, 01:43 PM

QUOTE

Only Internet Explorer 8 has both tab isolation and crash recovery features; Firefox and Chrome have one or the other.

This is wrong as Chrome has both tab isolation and crash recovery, so they should have at least let it tie with IE.

Everything in this chart is true to a point.

I am an example. I installed Chrome. I still have it installed now. I used it for around... four days. Since then, there have been multiple crashes, and many 'low spots' in Chrome's performance. For example, one time, I had 3 windows open. The first one was the main window I was using, with 3 tabs open, and one of them I was typing a very long e-mail. The two other windows were other stuff. As I was typing, I went into another tab... Google Chrome crashed. I then restarted it, and it said something like "Google Chrome has not been shut down properly. Do you wish to recover your data?" or something like that... I said yes. It then recovered my three tabs... and only my three tabs. The two other windows were gone. I went to my e-mail document, and it was not there. Bummer, huh? Not exactly what I would call a successful crash recovery, wouldn't you say?

Anyways, this is just another one of those charts showing how you should seriously download IE8. The only thing is, it is made by Microsoft. Therefore, it should be way more important than all those other charts out there that give you false information about other social communities or other hosting companies etc.

Caboose

Jun 22 2009, 02:34 PM

I like how you think you can trust Microsoft over smaller companies. Ignorance is bliss. Really though, you don't need to know many facts to know that the chart is complete rubbish.

Cattius

Jun 22 2009, 03:27 PM

QUOTE (Day)

Everything in this chart is true to a point.

I am an example. I installed Chrome. I still have it installed now. I used it for around... four days. Since then, there have been multiple crashes, and many 'low spots' in Chrome's performance. For example, one time, I had 3 windows open. The first one was the main window I was using, with 3 tabs open, and one of them I was typing a very long e-mail. The two other windows were other stuff. As I was typing, I went into another tab... Google Chrome crashed. I then restarted it, and it said something like "Google Chrome has not been shut down properly. Do you wish to recover your data?" or something like that... I said yes. It then recovered my three tabs... and only my three tabs. The two other windows were gone. I went to my e-mail document, and it was not there. Bummer, huh? Not exactly what I would call a successful crash recovery, wouldn't you say?

Anyways, this is just another one of those charts showing how you should seriously download IE8. The only thing is, it is made by Microsoft. Therefore, it should be way more important than all those other charts out there that give you false information about other social communities or other hosting companies etc.

Firstly, I would like to say that I hope your last paragraph was sarcastic. If it wasn't...frankly I'm worried about you

You mention Chrome's crash recovery features. Whether or not you were satisfied with them, the fact remains that they do exist. Chrome has both crash recovery and tab isolation. Microsoft says Chrome does not. Therefore Microsoft is lying. Simple.

Can I just ask what version of Chrome you were using, and what operating system you were using it on? I find Chrome 2 to be very stable on Windows 7, and I found that it was stable on Vista as well when I used to use that. If you were using an early release of Chrome (i.e. the first few months after it was released), or a beta, then that could be the cause of your stability issues.

The Dragoon

Jun 22 2009, 05:11 PM

the bigist reasen that firefox is better,safer ect. is that hackers,virsus ect do not target firefox as much as Internet explorer.because internet explorer is used my about everyone

Emo_Nemo

Jun 22 2009, 05:37 PM

QUOTE (Caboose @ Jun 22 2009, 03:34 PM)

I like how you think you can trust Microsoft over smaller companies. Ignorance is bliss. Really though, you don't need to know many facts to know that the chart is complete rubbish.

Why shouldn't we trust larger companies?
Larger companies have alot more to lose then a small start up.
The chart is not complete rubbish to be honest with you because every single claim can be backed up they've even mentioned that some may not be better than others for example the customization.

The whole Microsoft can't be trusted thing really needs to die down they haven't done anything wrong since the early 90's its going on 2010 isn't it time to let that go?

Cattius

Jun 23 2009, 02:18 AM

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 22 2009, 10:37 PM)

Why shouldn't we trust larger companies?
Larger companies have alot more to lose then a small start up.
The chart is not complete rubbish to be honest with you because every single claim can be backed up they've even mentioned that some may not be better than others for example the customization.

The whole Microsoft can't be trusted thing really needs to die down they haven't done anything wrong since the early 90's its going on 2010 isn't it time to let that go?

They haven't done anything wrong since the 90s? Where have you been living, Mars? Windows Vista is one of their most obvious recent failures (and Microsoft recognise this; they barely ever mention Vista anymore now they have 7 to talk about). I mean even XP was a mistake before SP1 - the security flaws in it were apalling.

And you mustn't have been reading me and Caboose's posts, because we've already established that certain parts are lies. Please stop this 'everything is true to a point' thing because it isn't.

Easl

Jun 23 2009, 04:03 AM

I might downlaod IE8, but firefox does everything I want it to and i only use 2 ad ons

Day

Jun 23 2009, 05:13 AM

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 22 2009, 01:27 PM)

Firstly, I would like to say that I hope your last paragraph was sarcastic. If it wasn't...frankly I'm worried about you

You mention Chrome's crash recovery features. Whether or not you were satisfied with them, the fact remains that they do exist. Chrome has both crash recovery and tab isolation. Microsoft says Chrome does not. Therefore Microsoft is lying. Simple.

Can I just ask what version of Chrome you were using, and what operating system you were using it on? I find Chrome 2 to be very stable on Windows 7, and I found that it was stable on Vista as well when I used to use that. If you were using an early release of Chrome (i.e. the first few months after it was released), or a beta, then that could be the cause of your stability issues.

First off, of course I was sarcastic. I'm not sure why you would even ask that question. I'm just saying that this particular chart should be 'so popular' because it is made by Microsoft, when this is happening all over the web. Seriously. Oh, and in case you didn't catch it... I was being sarcastic there too... (not the 'this is happening all over the web part'. I was dead serious about that).

Second, I use Google Chrome 2 on Vista. It's fast, I'll admit. It crashes far too much, and doesn't load many shockwave sites well, unless I refresh the page a couple times.

QUOTE

I like how you think you can trust Microsoft over smaller companies. Ignorance is bliss. Really though, you don't need to know many facts to know that the chart is complete rubbish.

So, you can base that off of a couple paragraphs that I typed? Seriously, get to know somebody before you call them ignorant.

I personally prefer FireFox over all browsers. IE8 may come last. Although I do not like IE8, the facts on that chart are...

QUOTE

And you mustn't have been reading me and Caboose's posts, because we've already established that certain parts are lies. Please stop this 'everything is true to a point' thing because it isn't.

...True to a point.

Do your research before coming up with arguments like these.

Arianna

Jun 23 2009, 07:36 AM

QUOTE

Why shouldn't we trust larger companies?
Larger companies have alot more to lose then a small start up.

Google is a small startup?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Please tell me you're joking.

Cattius

Jun 23 2009, 12:14 PM

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 10:13 AM)

First off, of course I was sarcastic. I'm not sure why you would even ask that question. I'm just saying that this particular chart should be 'so popular' because it is made by Microsoft, when this is happening all over the web. Seriously. Oh, and in case you didn't catch it... I was being sarcastic there too... (not the 'this is happening all over the web part'. I was dead serious about that).

Second, I use Google Chrome 2 on Vista. It's fast, I'll admit. It crashes far too much, and doesn't load many shockwave sites well, unless I refresh the page a couple times.

So, you can base that off of a couple paragraphs that I typed? Seriously, get to know somebody before you call them ignorant.

I personally prefer FireFox over all browsers. IE8 may come last. Although I do not like IE8, the facts on that chart are...
...True to a point.

Do your research before coming up with arguments like these.

Hopefully this is the last time I will have to repost this to explain to people why I say that not all the points on the chart are truthful

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 08:21 PM)

There are sections that aren't true though. For example:

QUOTE

Only Internet Explorer 8 has both tab isolation and crash recovery features; Firefox and Chrome have one or the other.

This is wrong as Chrome has both tab isolation and crash recovery, so they should have at least let it tie with IE.

And I'm sorry, but your sarcasm wasn't exactly obvious, at least to me anyway.

@Arianna: Well...I suppose they were a small start-up back in 1996

Caboose

Jun 23 2009, 12:26 PM

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 22 2009, 10:37 PM)

QUOTE (Caboose @ Jun 22 2009, 03:34 PM)

I like how you think you can trust Microsoft over smaller companies. Ignorance is bliss. Really though, you don't need to know many facts to know that the chart is complete rubbish.

Why shouldn't we trust larger companies?
Larger companies have alot more to lose then a small start up.
The chart is not complete rubbish to be honest with you because every single claim can be backed up they've even mentioned that some may not be better than others for example the customization.

The whole Microsoft can't be trusted thing really needs to die down they haven't done anything wrong since the early 90's its going on 2010 isn't it time to let that go?

I never said that we shouldn't trust larger companies...

Besides, you don't just trust blindly. You make the choice for yourself. This chart is utter rubbish, fact. We've proved this more than once, with the same facts. Accept them.

But Vista isn't that bad, it's only real flaw is that it uses a lot of resources, and that's not much of a problem on half decent machines (and if you don't clutter up your machine with rubbish like Windows Blinds, Windows Standard is just fine for me).

Day

Jun 23 2009, 06:09 PM

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 23 2009, 10:14 AM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 10:13 AM)

First off, of course I was sarcastic. I'm not sure why you would even ask that question. I'm just saying that this particular chart should be 'so popular' because it is made by Microsoft, when this is happening all over the web. Seriously. Oh, and in case you didn't catch it... I was being sarcastic there too... (not the 'this is happening all over the web part'. I was dead serious about that).

Second, I use Google Chrome 2 on Vista. It's fast, I'll admit. It crashes far too much, and doesn't load many shockwave sites well, unless I refresh the page a couple times.

So, you can base that off of a couple paragraphs that I typed? Seriously, get to know somebody before you call them ignorant.

I personally prefer FireFox over all browsers. IE8 may come last. Although I do not like IE8, the facts on that chart are...
...True to a point.

Do your research before coming up with arguments like these.

Hopefully this is the last time I will have to repost this to explain to people why I say that not all the points on the chart are truthful

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 08:21 PM)

There are sections that aren't true though. For example:

QUOTE

Only Internet Explorer 8 has both tab isolation and crash recovery features; Firefox and Chrome have one or the other.

This is wrong as Chrome has both tab isolation and crash recovery, so they should have at least let it tie with IE.

And I'm sorry, but your sarcasm wasn't exactly obvious, at least to me anyway.

@Arianna: Well...I suppose they were a small start-up back in 1996

Hopefully this will be the last time I will have to repost this to explain to people why I say that all the points on the chart are true to a point.

QUOTE

For example, one time, I had 3 windows open. The first one was the main window I was using, with 3 tabs open, and one of them I was typing a very long e-mail. The two other windows were other stuff. As I was typing, I went into another tab... Google Chrome crashed. I then restarted it, and it said something like "Google Chrome has not been shut down properly. Do you wish to recover your data?" or something like that... I said yes. It then recovered my three tabs... and only my three tabs. The two other windows were gone. I went to my e-mail document, and it was not there. Bummer, huh? Not exactly what I would call a successful crash recovery, wouldn't you say?

Hey! That wasn't a crash recovery! Not a successful one, anyways. So therefore, everything on this chart is true to a point, seeing as you don't want to post any other examples on how this chart 'lies' and keep on complaining that you have to repost ONE example.

redmonke

Jun 24 2009, 12:31 AM

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 06:09 PM)

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 23 2009, 10:14 AM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 10:13 AM)

First off, of course I was sarcastic. I'm not sure why you would even ask that question. I'm just saying that this particular chart should be 'so popular' because it is made by Microsoft, when this is happening all over the web. Seriously. Oh, and in case you didn't catch it... I was being sarcastic there too... (not the 'this is happening all over the web part'. I was dead serious about that).

Second, I use Google Chrome 2 on Vista. It's fast, I'll admit. It crashes far too much, and doesn't load many shockwave sites well, unless I refresh the page a couple times.

So, you can base that off of a couple paragraphs that I typed? Seriously, get to know somebody before you call them ignorant.

I personally prefer FireFox over all browsers. IE8 may come last. Although I do not like IE8, the facts on that chart are...
...True to a point.

Do your research before coming up with arguments like these.

Hopefully this is the last time I will have to repost this to explain to people why I say that not all the points on the chart are truthful

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 08:21 PM)

There are sections that aren't true though. For example:

QUOTE

Only Internet Explorer 8 has both tab isolation and crash recovery features; Firefox and Chrome have one or the other.

This is wrong as Chrome has both tab isolation and crash recovery, so they should have at least let it tie with IE.

And I'm sorry, but your sarcasm wasn't exactly obvious, at least to me anyway.

@Arianna: Well...I suppose they were a small start-up back in 1996

Hopefully this will be the last time I will have to repost this to explain to people why I say that all the points on the chart are true to a point.

QUOTE

For example, one time, I had 3 windows open. The first one was the main window I was using, with 3 tabs open, and one of them I was typing a very long e-mail. The two other windows were other stuff. As I was typing, I went into another tab... Google Chrome crashed. I then restarted it, and it said something like "Google Chrome has not been shut down properly. Do you wish to recover your data?" or something like that... I said yes. It then recovered my three tabs... and only my three tabs. The two other windows were gone. I went to my e-mail document, and it was not there. Bummer, huh? Not exactly what I would call a successful crash recovery, wouldn't you say?

Hey! That wasn't a crash recovery! Not a successful one, anyways. So therefore, everything on this chart is true to a point, seeing as you don't want to post any other examples on how this chart 'lies' and keep on complaining that you have to repost ONE example.

That's how websites work. In input boxes ANYWHERE they won't be saved unless the site itself does the saving. That's all temporary information you're typing.

It's like me having google.com typed in my browser, then when it crashes I complain about it not having google.com typed in still.

Day

Jun 24 2009, 12:50 AM

QUOTE (redmonke @ Jun 23 2009, 10:31 PM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 06:09 PM)

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 23 2009, 10:14 AM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 10:13 AM)

First off, of course I was sarcastic. I'm not sure why you would even ask that question. I'm just saying that this particular chart should be 'so popular' because it is made by Microsoft, when this is happening all over the web. Seriously. Oh, and in case you didn't catch it... I was being sarcastic there too... (not the 'this is happening all over the web part'. I was dead serious about that).

Second, I use Google Chrome 2 on Vista. It's fast, I'll admit. It crashes far too much, and doesn't load many shockwave sites well, unless I refresh the page a couple times.

So, you can base that off of a couple paragraphs that I typed? Seriously, get to know somebody before you call them ignorant.

I personally prefer FireFox over all browsers. IE8 may come last. Although I do not like IE8, the facts on that chart are...
...True to a point.

Do your research before coming up with arguments like these.

Hopefully this is the last time I will have to repost this to explain to people why I say that not all the points on the chart are truthful

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 08:21 PM)

There are sections that aren't true though. For example:

QUOTE

Only Internet Explorer 8 has both tab isolation and crash recovery features; Firefox and Chrome have one or the other.

This is wrong as Chrome has both tab isolation and crash recovery, so they should have at least let it tie with IE.

And I'm sorry, but your sarcasm wasn't exactly obvious, at least to me anyway.

@Arianna: Well...I suppose they were a small start-up back in 1996

Hopefully this will be the last time I will have to repost this to explain to people why I say that all the points on the chart are true to a point.

QUOTE

For example, one time, I had 3 windows open. The first one was the main window I was using, with 3 tabs open, and one of them I was typing a very long e-mail. The two other windows were other stuff. As I was typing, I went into another tab... Google Chrome crashed. I then restarted it, and it said something like "Google Chrome has not been shut down properly. Do you wish to recover your data?" or something like that... I said yes. It then recovered my three tabs... and only my three tabs. The two other windows were gone. I went to my e-mail document, and it was not there. Bummer, huh? Not exactly what I would call a successful crash recovery, wouldn't you say?

Hey! That wasn't a crash recovery! Not a successful one, anyways. So therefore, everything on this chart is true to a point, seeing as you don't want to post any other examples on how this chart 'lies' and keep on complaining that you have to repost ONE example.

That's how websites work. In input boxes ANYWHERE they won't be saved unless the site itself does the saving. That's all temporary information you're typing.

It's like me having google.com typed in my browser, then when it crashes I complain about it not having google.com typed in still.

Oh. Alright. But still, we have this to deal with:

QUOTE

The two other windows were gone

And it always does that, when that never happens in Mozilla Firefox or IE8.

redmonke

Jun 24 2009, 12:53 AM

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 24 2009, 12:50 AM)

QUOTE (redmonke @ Jun 23 2009, 10:31 PM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 06:09 PM)

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 23 2009, 10:14 AM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 10:13 AM)

First off, of course I was sarcastic. I'm not sure why you would even ask that question. I'm just saying that this particular chart should be 'so popular' because it is made by Microsoft, when this is happening all over the web. Seriously. Oh, and in case you didn't catch it... I was being sarcastic there too... (not the 'this is happening all over the web part'. I was dead serious about that).

Second, I use Google Chrome 2 on Vista. It's fast, I'll admit. It crashes far too much, and doesn't load many shockwave sites well, unless I refresh the page a couple times.

So, you can base that off of a couple paragraphs that I typed? Seriously, get to know somebody before you call them ignorant.

I personally prefer FireFox over all browsers. IE8 may come last. Although I do not like IE8, the facts on that chart are...
...True to a point.

Do your research before coming up with arguments like these.

Hopefully this is the last time I will have to repost this to explain to people why I say that not all the points on the chart are truthful

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 20 2009, 08:21 PM)

There are sections that aren't true though. For example:

QUOTE

Only Internet Explorer 8 has both tab isolation and crash recovery features; Firefox and Chrome have one or the other.

This is wrong as Chrome has both tab isolation and crash recovery, so they should have at least let it tie with IE.

And I'm sorry, but your sarcasm wasn't exactly obvious, at least to me anyway.

@Arianna: Well...I suppose they were a small start-up back in 1996

Hopefully this will be the last time I will have to repost this to explain to people why I say that all the points on the chart are true to a point.

QUOTE

For example, one time, I had 3 windows open. The first one was the main window I was using, with 3 tabs open, and one of them I was typing a very long e-mail. The two other windows were other stuff. As I was typing, I went into another tab... Google Chrome crashed. I then restarted it, and it said something like "Google Chrome has not been shut down properly. Do you wish to recover your data?" or something like that... I said yes. It then recovered my three tabs... and only my three tabs. The two other windows were gone. I went to my e-mail document, and it was not there. Bummer, huh? Not exactly what I would call a successful crash recovery, wouldn't you say?

Hey! That wasn't a crash recovery! Not a successful one, anyways. So therefore, everything on this chart is true to a point, seeing as you don't want to post any other examples on how this chart 'lies' and keep on complaining that you have to repost ONE example.

That's how websites work. In input boxes ANYWHERE they won't be saved unless the site itself does the saving. That's all temporary information you're typing.

It's like me having google.com typed in my browser, then when it crashes I complain about it not having google.com typed in still.

Oh. Alright. But still, we have this to deal with:

QUOTE

The two other windows were gone

And it always does that, when that never happens in Mozilla Firefox or IE8.

If you have multiple firefox windows open and it crashes, they all close, too.

Cattius

Jun 24 2009, 02:25 AM

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 11:09 PM)

Hey! That wasn't a crash recovery! Not a successful one, anyways. So therefore, everything on this chart is true to a point, seeing as you don't want to post any other examples on how this chart 'lies' and keep on complaining that you have to repost ONE example.

Please stop judging a browser's features based on ONE thing that happened to you ONCE. You cannot say that Chrome doesn't have crash recovery features, just because they didn't work for you ONCE.

And fyi, the only reason I didn't find you another example was because I was on my iPod Touch, and the Microsoft chart doesn't format properly on it.

QUOTE

Internet Explorer 8 takes the cake with better phishing and malware protection, as well as protection from emerging threats.

Before I acknowledge this as truth, I would like to see the malware and phishing protection results that Microsoft used to make this statement. Until I see evidence that it provides better protection, this is, in my opinion, a lie.

QUOTE

Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 – right out of the box.

I'd also like to point out the above (which Caboose has already been posting for ages, and like he's said - everything being there 'out of the box' does not represent customizability. Can you EASILY change the interface on IE? No. Can you on Firefox? Yes. Customization is all about CHANGING the defaults, not keeping them).

QUOTE

Internet Explorer 8 is more compatible with more sites on the Internet than any other browser.

I would also like to see the data they used to make this statement, as in my experience this isn't the case.

Day

Jun 24 2009, 02:44 AM

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 24 2009, 12:25 AM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 23 2009, 11:09 PM)

Hey! That wasn't a crash recovery! Not a successful one, anyways. So therefore, everything on this chart is true to a point, seeing as you don't want to post any other examples on how this chart 'lies' and keep on complaining that you have to repost ONE example.

Please stop judging a browser's features based on ONE thing that happened to you ONCE. You cannot say that Chrome doesn't have crash recovery features, just because they didn't work for you ONCE.

And fyi, the only reason I didn't find you another example was because I was on my iPod Touch, and the Microsoft chart doesn't format properly on it.

QUOTE

Internet Explorer 8 takes the cake with better phishing and malware protection, as well as protection from emerging threats.

Before I acknowledge this as truth, I would like to see the malware and phishing protection results that Microsoft used to make this statement. Until I see evidence that it provides better protection, this is, in my opinion, a lie.

QUOTE

Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 – right out of the box.

I'd also like to point out the above (which Caboose has already been posting for ages, and like he's said - everything being there 'out of the box' does not represent customizability. Can you EASILY change the interface on IE? No. Can you on Firefox? Yes. Customization is all about CHANGING the defaults, not keeping them).

QUOTE

Internet Explorer 8 is more compatible with more sites on the Internet than any other browser.

I would also like to see the data they used to make this statement, as in my experience this isn't the case.

Most of the things you have posted down are judged by the user. If the user thinks that it's better on the site, then I guess it's better on the site. I personally cannot tell the difference between them (except on Chrome, which has difficulty loading Adobe Shockwave applications) so I would check all/none. They checked one. I guess they must personally think that IE8 is better, huh?

But seriously, it's all business. They want people to download their product, so they make a chart over-exaggerating the 'greatness' of IE8. I could walk through any street in Washington DC and make twenty topics exactly like this.

Cattius

Jun 24 2009, 10:57 AM

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 24 2009, 07:44 AM)

Most of the things you have posted down are judged by the user. If the user thinks that it's better on the site, then I guess it's better on the site. I personally cannot tell the difference between them (except on Chrome, which has difficulty loading Adobe Shockwave applications) so I would check all/none. They checked one. I guess they must personally think that IE8 is better, huh?

But seriously, it's all business. They want people to download their product, so they make a chart over-exaggerating the 'greatness' of IE8. I could walk through any street in Washington DC and make twenty topics exactly like this.

I appreciate that the point of advertising is to persuade a potential customer to buy/download/whatever a product, and I have no problem with that. But I felt that this Microsoft chart went too far: in my opinion it over-exaggerates the facts, and does not provide evidence to support its claims. I posted it because I was angry, as I knew this chart would take advantage of those who knew little about computers, and I wanted to know what other people thought about it. That was all.

Emo_Nemo

Jun 24 2009, 01:23 PM

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 24 2009, 11:57 AM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 24 2009, 07:44 AM)

Most of the things you have posted down are judged by the user. If the user thinks that it's better on the site, then I guess it's better on the site. I personally cannot tell the difference between them (except on Chrome, which has difficulty loading Adobe Shockwave applications) so I would check all/none. They checked one. I guess they must personally think that IE8 is better, huh?

But seriously, it's all business. They want people to download their product, so they make a chart over-exaggerating the 'greatness' of IE8. I could walk through any street in Washington DC and make twenty topics exactly like this.

I appreciate that the point of advertising is to persuade a potential customer to buy/download/whatever a product, and I have no problem with that. But I felt that this Microsoft chart went too far: in my opinion it over-exaggerates the facts, and does not provide evidence to support its claims. I posted it because I was angry, as I knew this chart would take advantage of those who knew little about computers, and I wanted to know what other people thought about it. That was all.

Everyone overexaggerates though Apple makers of Linux distros etc.

Apple has made claims of OSX just working like it never has any problems but at the same time has a whole active forum dedicated to troubleshooting daily problems.

Linux distros have made claims of ease of use but at the same time confusing even advanced pc users.

I fail to see how what they are doing is any different then the latter.

Day

Jun 24 2009, 01:52 PM

QUOTE (Emo_Nemo @ Jun 24 2009, 11:23 AM)

QUOTE (Cattius @ Jun 24 2009, 11:57 AM)

QUOTE (Day @ Jun 24 2009, 07:44 AM)

Most of the things you have posted down are judged by the user. If the user thinks that it's better on the site, then I guess it's better on the site. I personally cannot tell the difference between them (except on Chrome, which has difficulty loading Adobe Shockwave applications) so I would check all/none. They checked one. I guess they must personally think that IE8 is better, huh?

But seriously, it's all business. They want people to download their product, so they make a chart over-exaggerating the 'greatness' of IE8. I could walk through any street in Washington DC and make twenty topics exactly like this.

I appreciate that the point of advertising is to persuade a potential customer to buy/download/whatever a product, and I have no problem with that. But I felt that this Microsoft chart went too far: in my opinion it over-exaggerates the facts, and does not provide evidence to support its claims. I posted it because I was angry, as I knew this chart would take advantage of those who knew little about computers, and I wanted to know what other people thought about it. That was all.

Everyone overexaggerates though Apple makers of Linux distros etc.

Apple has made claims of OSX just working like it never has any problems but at the same time has a whole active forum dedicated to troubleshooting daily problems.

Linux distros have made claims of ease of use but at the same time confusing even advanced pc users.

I fail to see how what they are doing is any different then the latter.

My point exactly

This has always been going on, with multiple companies. This always will.

So many things 'work like a charm'. Yet, why should there be troubleshooting manuals for them?