We all know what patriotism is, it's 'the love for one's country'. Although we all know it often gets more extreme than that and usually patriotism is seen as some kind of feeling of superiority towards other countries or races.

Just wanna know what you guys think of patriotism (or natiolanism, they have a few things in common). Nationalism is a more extreme form, but is very common these days too.

Post your opinions, I'll post mine later.

Patriotism is admirable. There is nothing wrong with loving the country you're from.

Nationalism is the scourge of modern times. I think that's been well-illustrated throughout the 20th century, and will continue to be.

I don't see how pride based on geographical locations can be anything near reasonable though.

Agree on nationalism, but these days it seem like the line between patriotism and nationalism is getting thinner and thinner.

I see it as the same as having pride in your family, even if you don't know anything about your ancestors. Without patriotism, most countries today wouldn't exist.

Yeah. Also, it's not just geographical location, it's culture, traditions, and things available in that country that others don't have.

But I actually have a phyiscal connection with my family though. I can understand your point though.


But I just can't see how you can be proud of something you actually don't have anything to do with.

Because it's something you're comfortable with? I mean sure, that's it, but still. Knowing that you are able to be a part of that heritage, is to me, what makes it special.

Another question is if that heritage is something to be proud of 'just because'.

If you're a citizen of a country then you have something to do with that country, you're part of it.

Alright, alright. But does make it alright to feel superior to other countries (more natiolism-related, I know)? To make it more clear with a quote. "True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else."

That's just like saying the sports team you cheer for is better than someone else's, whether they are or not.

Which often leads to the beautiful act of hooliganism.

No, it's not "just because". It's because I grew up learning how those traditions became common practice, what the history was, etc. in a way that I didn't about other nations.


This is a bit more difficult. Do you mean strictly within being an American (in my case) as opposed to being, say, Japanese? Or do you mean from a cultural standpoint? Because my opinions on each differ.

EDIT: Hooliganism is more common in British football, thus, I don't think it really applies :\

But that's just my opinion.

I don't have any problems with Patriotism, if someone wants to be proud of their country for honourable reasons, let them be I say. I don't really have much experience of it though, Patriotism in the U.K is pretty rare. Comparing Miami Airport, where the U.S Flag, welcome signs and cheesy patriotic videos were everywhere, to a typical English Airport where I'd be surprised to see a single Union Jack, the difference is palpable.

nationalism and patriotism make me want to puke

i detest it because of all the problems it causes in Belgium

for me it has gotten a stink i can't stand

people seem to be more and more in need to belong to a group, to not be individuals
in some cultures they hide in a religion which does the thinking for them
here they hide behind a language group
in other places they hide behind an ethnic difference

we are all human beings
one can stand up for his fellow beings
and that is a great virtue and an admirable cause
but patriotism and nationalism means more pointing towards the other who do not belong to your group
be those the Palestine's, muslims, French speaking belgians, "blacks", ...

patriotism sickens me
it really does

if you want to come up for people come up for all people, if you just want to come up for your group you don't have my respect
i'd rather spit you in the face

I'm all for patriotism, it gives a person pride of where they live, a sense of identity, and also a sense of the cultural and historical background. These days the world is getting smaller in the idea that globalization has led to better communication with the global world and opens up different cultures for probing. Think about this post, it takes seconds if not milliseconds for it to arrive to you, however 300 years ago for some it would take longer than a year, even 2. While I love the internet, I think countries should try to cling onto their national pride and culture.

I'm a splitting image of patriotism, I even have the German heraldic eagle on my avatar, it's not because I hate the world and love Germany, it's because I honor my ancestors and I love the land my forefathers were born in. Also it doesn't stop there, despite culture dimming, there is still alot of it left globally, a good example would be architecture, if we were one world, we'd likely adopt one style, and slowly replace what we've had globally, however now we have different styles, sub styles etc, and it means every city, country, town and village you go into is different from the next, it makes traveling so much more exciting.

Also the benefits it brings, it means that there is strong natural competition between companies, governments and people to to be better in business, to be better in sport and to be better in general. This competitiveness has led to great developments globally and gives us an incentive to work harder. Without some sort of patriotism Football would be dead in Europe (a game supported by a huge proportion of Europeans.) We as humans need something to compete with to be more productive.

On the more political side, patriotism means we are many split countries. One radical idea can be contained within a country. A global government could force policy upon is, it could be manipulated easily, and it's very easy to deceit the people, with everything in one rule, it's hard for people or other counties (which would not exist) to challenge the regime. Although, it does create problems, these problems are natural, and it saddens me that some people can not be diplomatic when it comes to tensions between countries.

Nationalism is (I think) the more extreme version of patriotism, and this I'm against. However this doesn't mean I'm against all of their policies. The European union is something that I'm not settled on, I see it has it's benefits, but I don't like nor do I agree with the way it makes policy for other countries, and I especially don't like trading blocs in general.



Eh? Come to the north and you'll change that opinion, faaast. We were basically forced to worship the flag in scouts and cub outings. ;P

That's Scouts etc. I had to do that when I went there.

I suppose you could call me a Patriot, because I'm proud of most British culture and stuff. I get tingles when I hear the national anthem and I fly the flag quite a bit I don't see it as being proud of just geographical position. There really isn't anything wrong with being a patriot as long as it doesn't blur your view too much of other countries.

Edit: I'm also proud of where I've lived in the past (Northern Ireland, Germany) quite a lot. Not so much, but quite often I do mutter the German national anthem

Well I guess it is a very British thing, seeing as it is now a global movement that started in the Uk. However I was just stating that, I mean there is shops in Leeds selling whole isles of clothes with the union jack on.

I'm not counting Scouts, I still go to Scouts (well I help out at Explorers) we still do the 2 Parades a year where we carry all the flags, but the whole 'duty to God and to the Queen', saluting the flag is more about preserving tradition than Patriotism, in my opinion.

If you've ever been to Piccadilly Circus, there's alot around there. There's loads around where I live too, so I don't think it's just Leeds


Yes, but it was started by patriotism so that's still there even if it's just to keep the torch glowing.

That's for the tourists mainly, alot of tourists visit/pass through there.



If it wasn't there we would cease to be Scouts, and just be a youth group. There are no doubt some patriotic people in the Scout group, but it is for tradition, not for the sake of showing devotion to our country.

Yeah but still, the second sentence?


Yeah, but it's there as a sign of Patriotism. It may not seem like it to you, but saluting your own flag is patriotism.

I don't think you understand what i'm saying, the reason that many Scout groups is just for traditions sake. Not for patriotism's sake. It's a whole different ketlle of fish when you're only saluting it because it's a Scout tradition, and a requirement of being in the group that you abide by them.

Saluting the flag is patriotism in any case (excluding FORCED, as in protesting but having to do it anyway)
I'm sure it'd feel strange if you didn't do it.

"Patriotism" is an abused term. Far too many people commit atrocities towards their country in the name of patriotism. Patriotism is when you are proud of the achievements of your country, and wish for the best within your country. In America, a true patriot would honor all great things of America, but strongly oppose all things bad within America. Were America in its darkest hour, a patriot would optimistically strive to solve our problems.

Patriotism, in its true form, is reasonable. Nationalism is not. Nationalism is supporting your country no matter what, never questioning your country, and believing that you live in the world's greatest country. True patriotism is good for the world, but when it reaches the point of nationalism, it is destructive.

Being forced to be "patriotic" is nationalism. America's reaction to 9/11 was nationalism. A patriot acknowledges the rest of the world, and would like to help the rest of the world as well. A nationalist would rather harm the outside world.

Shoot and fudgeing bang.

This is a more eloquent version of my first post in this topic.

To add to it, Vera, Nazism, "Communism" (Stalinism), 1940s Japan, etc. all came from nationalism.

EDIT: I expect to be flamed for this, but the "Civil War" in the US was also the result of nationalism. IMO.

Supporting your country no matter what could be good if you're pushing for change however. And if you're not blind towards the other countries.

But then it's patriotism.

Lemme use myself. Because I make a good example of this

Okay, lemme run over some of my favorite things. They are things like the Ford Mustang, college football (hell...football in general), and, I confess, I have a latent interest in 1950s/1960s advertisements.

On the other hand, my favorite food is definitely mie goreng, an Indonesian dish. I know more about Asia than anyone else in my English class (I found that out this afternoon...), and I absolutely love Yogyakarta and Bandung.

I recognize, from personal experience, the problems with the "war" in Iraq, the "war" in Afghanistan, etc., because I've met Arabs before, irl. I've met Muslims. I've befriended them. I've discussed the "wars" in Afghanistan and Iraq with them. I've heard their opinions. And based on all of that, drawing on American, Indonesian, and Arab sources, ideas, opinions, etc., I have concluded that our Middle Eastern foreign policy is really fudgeing stupid. If there's one thing I can draw from my overseas experience, it's a WORLDview. Yes, I admit. I really love the United States. There's no country I'd rather live in for the rest of my life. But, at the same time, I recognize that yes, there is intelligent life beyond these borders, and stories, even. And, like the Discovery Channel commercial, the world out there is awesome, and worth a look.

I am a patriot. I do not blindly follow the US to the bitter end.

I love my country. I want it to flourish. nothing wrong with that.
In my very good opinion, the left could do with more patriotism.

Patriotism is nice, although when it becomes nationalism is just stupid.
I like to think that there really are no borders except the ones that are imposed to us. We're all men and women, and nowadays we all think nearly alike. I mean, you guys are miles away from me, but I still don't see you (when I'm talking to you here, when you come here, your (most of you) blue eyes and blond hair gives you away ) as truly "foreign". I really don't give much of a damn about nationality. I want my country to develop, but even more, I want the whole of Latin America to develop.
After all, I'm a part peruvian Honduran with family in Perou, Spain, Chile, USA.... so, what's the true point in being over-nationalistic? No nation, I'm not speaking in economical terms here, is "better" than another, and that's something we have to understand.
We have to work in order to, rather than make them more noticeable, blur out our borders, be it ideological or political.

I know I watch various programs about other parts of the world. I've see many Americas seem to think "all for one and one for all". Not to say this is wrong or right, I just feel some Americans are superior just a shame many other countries and people are the same .

I'm from Britain. I'm not really ashamed to say it I love my country but I don't project it like some others do. I don't really have that deep of an emotional tie with my birth place.

it has become a modern view, that all the people in the world are the same, but we all know that Hitler's June purge could have never happened in britian, and that lenin couldn't have inspired revolution in Germany.

Really, now? Fascism was a growing ideology in America and Britain during the 1930's because it was easy to see how fascism could create an economic powerhouse. Ever heard of the Business Plot? And communism was actually probable to rise in Germany. The Weimar economy was an absolute hellhole, and where there is poverty, there is communist ideals. Though reliving imperial glories appealed more in Germany than a new era of communism, leftism was still very popular in the Weimer Republic, evident by Ernst Thalmann getting 16% of the vote in 1932.

It was also pretty evident during 1930's France, which had a large conflict between the Front Populaire (communists) and the Croix-de-Feux (right wing, they were WWI vets).

I think it's stupid to proud of something you had no part in; i.e. choosing where you're born.

Patriotism is the love for one's country.
Nationalism is excessive love for one's country.

"Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first."
--General Charles De Gaulle

"To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography."
--George Santayana

What you say is true, but I do passionately hate both of them. Nationalism I hate more than patriotism, but I just wish people could look farther than the borders of their own countries. Now, I don't wanna seem rude to anyone, but every time I go on the internet I see some people claiming their country is better than the others -in the most cases these people are talking about the USA-, and claim other countries should be under the reign of theirs. Those are the people I would punch in the face if I could.


Exactly.

I would disagree, the natural competition between countries is healthy. When a country puts more effort into competing with education, sports, business, art etc... they improve the quality of it, it's an incentive, a motivator for us to be more productive. It's important for people to have pride in something, and it's good and secure to feel pride in your location, it's only negative when you use this pride in a damaging way. And some countries do have achievements that they want to show off, it's nice to be part of a team, or for example in larger sense in a community. Another example would be I see English architecture to be very dull, especially our housing to northern-coastline- Europe, so I have the incentive if I were to become an architect to put more care quallity into a better standard of designs.

Of course people can go too far, but often a bit of patriotism does no harm.

Look at the BNP.
They're gaining popularity. Much like Hitler's Nazi party did.

I think patriotism is a bad thing and you must always question your country. But some nationalism is good especially if you live in country like most of Europe and globalist corperations are shoving english down school-childrens throat and killing european culture. and the same thing happening in south america and asia, if i was a nationalist i would be very sad, or a former soldier fighting for that countries indepdance to see globalists take over your culture.

Sweetie, I think you just confused the terms big time.

Let's look at Patriotism and Nationalism in Australia.

The rise in Nationalism lead to the introduction of the White Australia policy which restricted the entry of non-whites from Australia for nearly 60 years in the 20th century. Secondly, Patriotism to the 'mother country' lead Australia to fight Britain's war and for bushmen to volunteer (we had no conscription in WWI, they were all volunteers) and consequently lose their life over a country they had not even known in most cases (only 25% of soldiers were British born).

In a lot of cases, Patriotism and Nationalism leads to violence, racism and discrimination/alienation. I think it's ignorant personally.

I like my country; but I don't love my country, nor do I feel I owe my country anything.

patriotisme/nationalisme is the reason of many many MANY wars and it's an excuse for many, many MANY deaths
it's not something to be proud of

you said it yourself 'we are proud of our culture, our country...',which means you think yours is better then the other one... racist

No........It means that your proud of your counties heritage, culture and achievements, not anywhere does patriotism mean you think you are superior, pride and superiority are not the same thing.