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Atheism Atheism doesnt make sense.


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#21 OFFLINE   Dissentor

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 10:09 PM

View PostJOHN BUTLER, on Jan 18 2008 at 10:04 PM, said:

View Postbralkos, on Jan 18 2008 at 06:08 PM, said:

@ Roc - that line wasn't really addressed to you.  :blink:

And since when is the big bang theory Atheism?  Atheists just don't believe in a God.  

John Butler, I am curious.  If I said, "God created the big bang in order to begin the universe," does that make it make sense?

Sorry youre right about the big bang theory not being atheist i was thinking of evolution at the time and im sorry.
That would make sense, except that God DIDN'T us it to make the universe. He says so in the bible.
Where in the Bible does it say that God didn't use the big bang to create the universe?

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#22 OFFLINE   Raz

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 10:11 PM

Oh and you do know that god doesn't specifically mean the Christian god.

It could mean any other mono-theistic religion (slam or Judaism for example.)
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#23 OFFLINE   Essilen

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 12:23 AM

View PostBig Tree, on Jan 18 2008 at 07:09 PM, said:

View PostJOHN BUTLER, on Jan 18 2008 at 11:04 PM, said:

View Postbralkos, on Jan 18 2008 at 06:08 PM, said:

@ Roc - that line wasn't really addressed to you.  :P

And since when is the big bang theory Atheism?  Atheists just don't believe in a God.  

John Butler, I am curious.  If I said, "God created the big bang in order to begin the universe," does that make it make sense?

Sorry youre right about the big bang theory not being atheist i was thinking of evolution at the time and im sorry.
That would make sense, except that God DIDN'T us it to make the universe. He says so in the bible.
Err, where does it say that? :huh: :glasses:

in Genesis. it says he spoke it into existence.
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#24 OFFLINE   Ubel

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 12:36 AM

View PostJOHN BUTLER, on Jan 19 2008 at 12:23 AM, said:

View PostBig Tree, on Jan 18 2008 at 07:09 PM, said:

View PostJOHN BUTLER, on Jan 18 2008 at 11:04 PM, said:

View Postbralkos, on Jan 18 2008 at 06:08 PM, said:

@ Roc - that line wasn't really addressed to you.  :P

And since when is the big bang theory Atheism?  Atheists just don't believe in a God.  

John Butler, I am curious.  If I said, "God created the big bang in order to begin the universe," does that make it make sense?

Sorry youre right about the big bang theory not being atheist i was thinking of evolution at the time and im sorry.
That would make sense, except that God DIDN'T us it to make the universe. He says so in the bible.
Err, where does it say that? :huh: :glasses:

in Genesis. it says he spoke it into existence.
That only tells the means by which the creation was started, not the means by which the creation happened.
:rolleyes: is not the answer.

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#25 OFFLINE   Dad

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 12:52 AM

I ignore above quotes cuz they fail k?

View PostSlave to Un_T0uch, on Jan 19 2008 at 10:05 AM, said:

View PostEvin290, on Jan 18 2008 at 06:46 PM, said:

View PostJOHN BUTLER, on Jan 18 2008 at 06:17 PM, said:

Atheism doesnt make sense. Ok take the big bang theory. Where did the stuff that made the big bang come from? eventually it all has to come from somewhere. so how did it all happen?
Theism doesn't make sense. Okay, take God. Where did He come from? Eventually everything has to come from somewhere. So how did He come into existence?



Argument from ignorance is a double-edged sword, my friend.


God created Time so before he created things could exists forever and he is god.

Where did god chillax before he made time and universe?

TIME MADE GOD CUZ TIME WAS LONLEY AND NEEDED SOMEONE TO HANG WITH! GOD MADE REST WITH AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL THAT TIME GAVE HIM. AND BECAUSE GOD HAD NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER HE MESSED UP AND MADE BACTERIA ON A HALF FINISHED PLANET. SO HE QUIT!

Bacteria did the rest k?

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My theory was made in 2 mins, as opposed to thousands of years and somehow mine makes more sense.

View Postmormril, on Jan 19 2008 at 12:32 PM, said:

View PostRoc Attack, on Jan 18 2008 at 08:12 PM, said:

This may be off topic but kind of relates to the comment of Lord Vega(Post #6)
In the Christian Bible doesnt it say that 'God' created Man in his own reflection, Then Later it says 'God' is perfect? If 'God' created man in his own reflection that means 'God' is flawed; For man is flawed, No man is perfect.
Ahh, good point. I think I can answer that question though.:glasses: God created man in his image... to live forever. Adam and Eve were perfectly formed and healthy. However, without God's influence, the tree of life's fruit, or just the general corrupting influence of sin (or all of the above), we degraded into our current forms.

So in other words God the tyrant withheld the knowledge from people. It says Adam and Eve were happy. How could they be without true intelligence? Sorry if I misread but it looked to me like they gained knowledge and true emotion when they ate the fruit.

Another thing I noticed is that God punished Eve more than Adam.

Eve must feel pain when giving birth. Adam gets to keep his ribs and gets sex, both of which are good for him.

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#26 OFFLINE   Jagneb

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 12:53 AM

View PostCxkslei, on Jan 18 2008 at 05:21 PM, said:

Actually we have our own stance.

One theory on the big bang is the dimensional blackhole theory.

We have one dimension, and a blackhole in it. This black hole absords so much mass that it becomes "full", it then closes on its original dimension and explodes in another thus creating a big bang, and it continues.

Also you have no stance against atheism, and you expect us to have to debate with you, I highly suggest you provide EVIDENCE that atheism doesn't make sense. I really dislike intolerable people >_>.

- Deist here.
There is a major flaw in that theroy.  Where did the mass that was in the original dimension come from?  

View PostRoc Attack, on Jan 18 2008 at 06:12 PM, said:

Quote

God created Time so before he created things could exists forever and he is god.
This may be off topic but kind of relates to the comment of Lord Vega(Post #6)
In the Christian Bible doesnt it say that 'God' created Man in his own reflection, Then Later it says 'God' is perfect? If 'God' created man in his own reflection that means 'God' is flawed; For man is flawed, No man is perfect.
Yes he created man perfect.  However, he told adam not to eat the fruit from a certain tree.  Then satin comes along and tempts them into eating eat.  God than banned them from the garden of eden and made them unperfect.



I agree that atheism doesn't make sense.  They say that there is no gods in the whole universe.  However they also say that the universe start with the big bang.  Which says that a cingularity(sp?) containing all of the matter in the universe exploded, but the part that is left out is the fact that the cingularity(sp?) was placed by some unknown force (God).  So how is it possible for the big bang to be possible with out some kind of god????

Yes I know that the Big Bang has nothing to do with atheism.  I was just using it as an example.

#27 OFFLINE   chunky granny

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 12:56 AM

View PostJOHN BUTLER, on Jan 18 2008 at 04:17 PM, said:

Atheism doesnt make sense. Ok take the big bang theory. Where did the stuff that made the big bang come from? eventually it all has to come from somewhere. so how did it all happen?

Ok, you said Atheism doesn't make sense.

So you believe that some big power guy CREATED the earth with two people and now there are 6-7 BILLION people? Hmm.

We all have our own opinions. I am jewish but i believe none of this "God" thing.

Christianity started with jesus right? so they made a religion right there and then or what? because i think a ton of the religion things could have been made up.

the big bang theory was thought of by genius scientists. christianity happened to be started by someone who was apparently reborn?

Now which sounds more realistic to you?
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#28 OFFLINE   Acid

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 06:33 AM

View PostJagneb, on Jan 19 2008 at 05:53 AM, said:

View PostCxkslei, on Jan 18 2008 at 05:21 PM, said:

Actually we have our own stance.

One theory on the big bang is the dimensional blackhole theory.

We have one dimension, and a blackhole in it. This black hole absords so much mass that it becomes "full", it then closes on its original dimension and explodes in another thus creating a big bang, and it continues.

Also you have no stance against atheism, and you expect us to have to debate with you, I highly suggest you provide EVIDENCE that atheism doesn't make sense. I really dislike intolerable people >_>.

- Deist here.
There is a major flaw in that theroy.  Where did the mass that was in the original dimension come from?  

View PostRoc Attack, on Jan 18 2008 at 06:12 PM, said:

Quote

God created Time so before he created things could exists forever and he is god.
This may be off topic but kind of relates to the comment of Lord Vega(Post #6)
In the Christian Bible doesnt it say that 'God' created Man in his own reflection, Then Later it says 'God' is perfect? If 'God' created man in his own reflection that means 'God' is flawed; For man is flawed, No man is perfect.
Yes he created man perfect.  However, he told adam not to eat the fruit from a certain tree.  Then satin comes along and tempts them into eating eat.  God than banned them from the garden of eden and made them unperfect.



I agree that atheism doesn't make sense.  They say that there is no gods in the whole universe.  However they also say that the universe start with the big bang.  Which says that a *cingularity(sp?) containing all of the matter in the universe exploded, but the part that is left out is the fact that the cingularity(sp?) was placed by some unknown force (God).  So how is it possible for the big bang to be possible with out some kind of god????

Yes I know that the Big Bang has nothing to do with atheism.  I was just using it as an example.

*singularity.

we don't know how long the universe was about before the big bang happened, but the contents created a mass expansion, not an explosion of any sort. As for the argument who started the big bang? well its believed to be an act of "chance" however I prefer to distinguish chance from inevitability (personal view not bb theory) For instance, since I believe the universe is infinite, that gives an infinite about of chances for such a reaction to take place.

As for the paradox you put forward, who put it all in motion well that doesn't really help, since you could easily argue "who put god there?"
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#29 OFFLINE   Bralkos

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 10:20 AM

View PostJagneb, on Jan 19 2008 at 12:53 AM, said:

I agree that atheism doesn't make sense.  They say that there is no gods in the whole universe.  However they also say that the universe start with the big bang.  Which says that a cingularity(sp?) containing all of the matter in the universe exploded, but the part that is left out is the fact that the cingularity(sp?) was placed by some unknown force (God).  So how is it possible for the big bang to be possible with out some kind of god????

Yes I know that the Big Bang has nothing to do with atheism.  I was just using it as an example.

I'm curious as to why you think we have to have all the answers.  Do you really think humans know everything about the universe?  Are you that arrogant to think that just because us great, intellectual humans can't prove something, then it must not be true?  Sure, you can say God created it, and that basically would explain it, but do you have any proof?  You're only proof is a lack of proof for the other side, and a lack of evidence is not evidence in any circumstance.  

In case you didn't know, science is all about models and theories.  If something can't be explained, we offer a possible solution, and over time the solution is altered to account for new discoveries.  Take, for example, the model of the atom.  We've gone from a single little ball to a complex system of particles and energy levels.  It can't be proven, but it's the best possible answer we have.  

By your very same logic, atoms do not exist because we cannot prove it 100%.

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#30 OFFLINE   Essilen

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 01:21 PM

View Postchunky granny, on Jan 18 2008 at 09:56 PM, said:

View PostJOHN BUTLER, on Jan 18 2008 at 04:17 PM, said:

Atheism doesnt make sense. Ok take the big bang theory. Where did the stuff that made the big bang come from? eventually it all has to come from somewhere. so how did it all happen?

Ok, you said Atheism doesn't make sense.

So you believe that some big power guy CREATED the earth with two people and now there are 6-7 BILLION people? Hmm.

We all have our own opinions. I am jewish but i believe none of this "God" thing.

Christianity started with jesus right? so they made a religion right there and then or what? because i think a ton of the religion things could have been made up.

the big bang theory was thought of by genius scientists. christianity happened to be started by someone who was apparently reborn?

Now which sounds more realistic to you?

Well in response to how do we have so many people now, everybody lived longer back then so they could have a lot more children than usual. To "Christianity started with jesus right? so they made a religion right there and then or what? because i think a ton of the religion things could have been made up." It mostly started with jesus but it was all based on genesis and the old testament. and that you think it could have been made up well, thats where faith comes in.
A Frenchman, a German, and an Irishman all walk into a bar. Each of them order a bottle of whiskey and when they get them there's a fly in each one.
The Frenchman says, "Mon Dieu! I cannot drink this." So he gives it back.
The German picks out the fly and drinks his whiskey anyway.
The Irishman grabs the the fly by the throat and says, "Spit it out! Spit it out!"
-Rock Mullaney, CrossFire Trail.

#31 OFFLINE   Cxkslei

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 01:25 PM

View PostJOHN BUTLER, on Jan 19 2008 at 01:21 PM, said:

View Postchunky granny, on Jan 18 2008 at 09:56 PM, said:

View PostJOHN BUTLER, on Jan 18 2008 at 04:17 PM, said:

Atheism doesnt make sense. Ok take the big bang theory. Where did the stuff that made the big bang come from? eventually it all has to come from somewhere. so how did it all happen?

Ok, you said Atheism doesn't make sense.

So you believe that some big power guy CREATED the earth with two people and now there are 6-7 BILLION people? Hmm.

We all have our own opinions. I am jewish but i believe none of this "God" thing.

Christianity started with jesus right? so they made a religion right there and then or what? because i think a ton of the religion things could have been made up.

the big bang theory was thought of by genius scientists. christianity happened to be started by someone who was apparently reborn?

Now which sounds more realistic to you?

Well in response to how do we have so many people now, everybody lived longer back then so they could have a lot more children than usual. To "Christianity started with jesus right? so they made a religion right there and then or what? because i think a ton of the religion things could have been made up." It mostly started with jesus but it was all based on genesis and the old testament. and that you think it could have been made up well, thats where faith comes in.
Exactly faith. YOU ARE BASING SOMETHING ON PERSONAL BELIEF, Atheism is based on rationality, maybe now it makes sense?

If you haven't noticed you've even aggravated Christians with this debate, you've been forewarned.

#32 OFFLINE   Drebin

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 02:47 PM

Neither make sense. [theism and atheism]

Patou said somewhere about Agnosticism FTW, I'd agree.

We dont know, we never will know.

Theism believes an otherworldy being made the universe and all creation.

Atheism believes the black hole etc etc etc theory.

I'd say atheism "dosent make sense" because the things that started the creation of black holes etc has no starting point.

In a way, thiesm makes more sense, because since it says an otherworldy being made the earth and the universe etc.

I assume an otherwordly being wouldnt be constricted to earthy physical science and earthy rationalities, because it is from a completely different place.
If you could call it a place, it could be an infinite mass of Nothing.


Overall, we don't know. We never will know.
I believe in spirits etc, so I'd be agnostic to a sense, but I do believe some kind of otherworldy spirit had some kind of part to play in our creation, but then again, I dont know because I could never understand it, just like any other human.

Atheism dosent have any basis for the beginning of a black hole, if it does, where did that come from? Then where did that come from? It goes on and on.

Theism dosent make sense according to our earthy science.
But then again, isnt it OBVIOUS if an otherworldy spirit created us, that it obviously wouldnt be bound by the laws of science because it created science?

--EDIT--

Just reading over some posts, saying anything about Adam and Eve is stupid.
Christians worldwide accept it as a metaphor type of thing, they dont actually believe 2 humans spawned the entire human race.

Well, some do, but you know, maybe they just like to imagine 2 people making that many babies?

Adam + Eve = symbolic story.

As far as I know, only "weird" branches of christianity take it as fact.

Edited by Feegro, 19 January 2008 - 02:52 PM.

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#33 OFFLINE   Ubel

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 02:56 PM

View PostFeegro, on Jan 19 2008 at 02:47 PM, said:

Neither make sense. [theism and atheism]

Patou said somewhere about Agnosticism FTW, I'd agree.

We dont know, we never will know.

Theism believes an otherworldy being made the universe and all creation.

Atheism believes the black hole etc etc etc theory.

I'd say atheism "dosent make sense" because the things that started the creation of black holes etc has no starting point.

In a way, thiesm makes more sense, because since it says an otherworldy being made the earth and the universe etc.

I assume an otherwordly being wouldnt be constricted to earthy physical science and earthy rationalities, because it is from a completely different place.
If you could call it a place, it could be an infinite mass of Nothing.


Overall, we don't know. We never will know.
I believe in spirits etc, so I'd be agnostic to a sense, but I do believe some kind of otherworldy spirit had some kind of part to play in our creation, but then again, I dont know because I could never understand it, just like any other human.

Atheism dosent have any basis for the beginning of a black hole, if it does, where did that come from? Then where did that come from? It goes on and on.

Theism dosent make sense according to our earthy science.
But then again, isnt it OBVIOUS if an otherworldy spirit created us, that it obviously wouldnt be bound by the laws of science because it created science?

--EDIT--

Just reading over some posts, saying anything about Adam and Eve is stupid.
Christians worldwide accept it as a metaphor type of thing, they dont actually believe 2 humans spawned the entire human race.

Well, some do, but you know, maybe they just like to imagine 2 people making that many babies?

Adam + Eve = symbolic story.

As far as I know, only "weird" branches of christianity take it as fact.
Atheism is ONLY the disbelief in god, NOTHING ELSE.

As for the edit- Everyone I've talked to take it literally.
:rolleyes: is not the answer.

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#34 OFFLINE   Drebin

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 03:41 PM

I asked a catholic priest about it once, he said it was a type of parable.

Maybe people just have mixed views on it?

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#35 OFFLINE   Raz

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 03:49 PM

Quote

There is a major flaw in that theroy. Where did the mass that was in the original dimension come from?

Ok I'm going to speak for the person responding to me as well.

Where did god come from then?
"God always existed"
If thats the case why can't the mass have just always existed too.

Oh and for the whole god was before time thing time isn't a physical substance or anything its just an idea that we formed to explain things in our world.
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Posted 19 January 2008 - 03:58 PM

View PostFeegro, on Jan 19 2008 at 02:47 PM, said:

Neither make sense. [theism and atheism]

Patou said somewhere about Agnosticism FTW, I'd agree.

We dont know, we never will know.

Theism believes an otherworldy being made the universe and all creation.

Atheism believes the black hole etc etc etc theory.

I'd say atheism "dosent make sense" because the things that started the creation of black holes etc has no starting point.

In a way, thiesm makes more sense, because since it says an otherworldy being made the earth and the universe etc.

I assume an otherwordly being wouldnt be constricted to earthy physical science and earthy rationalities, because it is from a completely different place.
If you could call it a place, it could be an infinite mass of Nothing.


Overall, we don't know. We never will know.
I believe in spirits etc, so I'd be agnostic to a sense, but I do believe some kind of otherworldy spirit had some kind of part to play in our creation, but then again, I dont know because I could never understand it, just like any other human.

Atheism dosent have any basis for the beginning of a black hole, if it does, where did that come from? Then where did that come from? It goes on and on.

Theism dosent make sense according to our earthy science.
But then again, isnt it OBVIOUS if an otherworldy spirit created us, that it obviously wouldnt be bound by the laws of science because it created science?

--EDIT--

Just reading over some posts, saying anything about Adam and Eve is stupid.
Christians worldwide accept it as a metaphor type of thing, they dont actually believe 2 humans spawned the entire human race.

Well, some do, but you know, maybe they just like to imagine 2 people making that many babies?

Adam + Eve = symbolic story.

As far as I know, only "weird" branches of christianity take it as fact.

Every Christian I know takes it as fact. Thanks for the name-calling. :o
It's ridiculous to say "two people made that many babies." It's perfectly logical that a few children could have more children, and so on and so forth...
Don't make claims about Christianity if you don't know what you're talking about. That goes for anything, actually. :welcome:

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#37 OFFLINE   Acid

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 04:16 PM

To be fair i bet a lot of people are just going to ignore raz's response but it makes a very valid point.

Atheism = Lack of belief in god, no belief system attached
the same as theism has no belief system attached.

I read through Feegro's post... the adam and eve story was actually taken as fact for many years and so was the earth standing on four corners and god directly affecting the wind... blah blah blah.
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#38 OFFLINE   Drebin

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 07:56 PM

@Emanick;

Sorry if that seemed offensive :\ I didnt think it would.

And as far as I knew, people did take it as a parable of sorts.

Sorry, I should probably re-phrase that.
Maybe Adam and Eve did cause origional sin etc etc etc,
but from what I know, most christians don't believe them to have been the first humans, as such.
If they were, they either died soon after or ceased to exist in any physical world because of what God wanted?

But if you think about it, if Adam and Eve were the first people on earth, why were some of the earliest humans pagan?
It dosen't add up.

Shoudln't Adam and Eve have then taught about Gods power etc etc?

Also, I'd take the story of Adam and Eve in a spiritual sense, but do you really think they were the first ever humans?

I mean, maybe in some kind of spirit realm or something, they were the first humans, ie. the first living things of Gods creation, but do you really think they were the first physical homosapiens on earth?

   We fall together bebi.   


#39 OFFLINE   Miss Skaii

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 07:59 PM

Ok here goes my first post on the subject.

If science and atheism are so great, and science has an explanation to everything, why are Earth's natural resources running out? Why is the planet heating up and the polar regions shrinking? Why can't they solve the energy crisis or make up a decent theory about the cration?(ooh, burn)

Until I see some TRUE AND ACTUAL proof that the events described in the Bible didn't happen(which you guys don't have :P ) I will remain a true believer in Christ. You people remain in your belief that seeing is believing, which is about the most ignorant statement anyone can say. Events in the Bible were wrote by people witnessing these events and are ABSOLUTELY true.

In the end, people are entitled to believe what they want to(though it may be wrong) and this argument eventually leads to nowhere, except a couple extremely aggravated peoople. :)

#40 OFFLINE   Drebin

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 08:09 PM

View Postskydude033, on Jan 20 2008 at 12:59 AM, said:

Ok here goes my first post on the subject.

If science and atheism are so great, and science has an explanation to everything, why are Earth's natural resources running out? Why is the planet heating up and the polar regions shrinking? Why can't they solve the energy crisis or make up a decent theory about the cration?(ooh, burn)

Until I see some TRUE AND ACTUAL proof that the events described in the Bible didn't happen(which you guys don't have :P ) I will remain a true believer in Christ. You people remain in your belief that seeing is believing, which is about the most ignorant statement anyone can say. Events in the Bible were wrote by people witnessing these events and are ABSOLUTELY true.

In the end, people are entitled to believe what they want to(though it may be wrong) and this argument eventually leads to nowhere, except a couple extremely aggravated peoople. :)

Do you have proof?
I'm not attacking your religious stance, but the way you phrased it.


"Until I see some TRUE AND ACTUAL proof that the events described in the Bible didn't happen"

Lol. I thought youd say proof they DID happen.
Any proof of that son?


"Events in the Bible were wrote by people witnessing these events and are ABSOLUTELY true."

Wrong.
Thats an opinion, if it was 'ABSOLUTELY true' everyone would be Christian.

Do you have proof the people witnessed them?
It happened over 2000 years ago, and events were only written down many years after, at which by that time the tales could have been changed alot.
Also, people lie sometimes.


"If science and atheism are so great, and science has an explanation to everything, why are Earth's natural resources running out? Why is the planet heating up and the polar regions shrinking? Why can't they solve the energy crisis or make up a decent theory about the cration"

I dont see God down here, fixing up the earth, do you?
Why isnt God fixing the earth, does he want us to die?

Your views are flawed.

Christian beliefs are based on faith, not fact.

   We fall together bebi.   





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