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Jellijelli

Female Circumcision

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Found this article in the newspaper yesterday.

 

The men is this poor farming community were seething. A 13-year-old girl, brought to a doctor's office to have her clitoris removed, a surgery thought necessary to preserve chastity and honour, died.

 

But that was not the source of the outrage. After her death, the government shut down the clinic, and that got everyone riled up.

 

"They will not stop us," shouted (name), a tea shop owner along the main street. "We support circumcision!" he shouted.

 

ircumcision, as supporters call it, or female genital mutilation, as opponents refer to it, was suddenly a focus of debate in Egypt this summer.

 

A nationwide campaign to stop the practice has become a powerful social movement, uniting government forces, official religious leaders and street-level activists.

 

Though Egypt's Health Ministry ordered an end to the practice in 1996, it allowed exceptions in cases of emergency, a loophole so wide that it effective rendered the ban meaningless. Now the government is trying to enforce a comprehensive ban.

 

The Ministry of Religious Affairs also issued a booklet explaining why the practice is not called for in Islam; Egypt's Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa declared it haram, or prohibited by Islam;Egypt's highest religious official, Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, called it harmful; advertisements have been shown on TV to discourage it; and a national hotline was set up to answer public queries.

 

But social changes come very slowly in Egypt, where traditions do not adhere to the tenets of their faith.

 

For centuries Egyptian girls between seven and 13 years of age have been "circumcised", sometimes by a doctor, sometimes by a barber or whoever else in the village would do it.

 

A 2005 official survey showed that 96 per cent of women in the country have undergone the procedure.

 

But now, forces opposing genital cutting are fighting back under the guidance of 84-year-old anthropologist Marie Assaad, who has been advocating against genital cutting since the 1950s.

 

"I never thought I would live to see this day," she said.

 

Ms Assaad is helped by Mrs Suzanne Mubarak, the wife of President Hosni Mubarak, and Ms Mosheira Khattab, head of the National Council for childhood and Motherhood, a government agency that helps set national health and social policies.

 

Health Ministry reports said there had already been a drop in urban areas. "We are aiming to take it down 20 per cent in two years," he said.

 

The challenge, however, rests in persauding people that their grandparents, parents and they themselves have harmed their daughters.

 

Moreover, advocates must convince a sceptical public that men will marry a woman who has not undergone the procedure is not necessary to preserve family honour.

 

"Circumcision is a very old custom with no benefits," Ms Vivian Fouad, who helps staff the national hotline, said to a caller.

 

"If you want to protect your daughter, then you have to raise her well. That is the main factor in everything, not mutilating your daughter," she said.

 

Influential people like Mr Osama Mohamed El Moaseri, imam of a mosque in Basyoun, is hard to convince.

 

"This practice has been passed down through generations, it is natural that every person circumcises his daughter," he said.

 

But Ms Khattab argues: "As a male society, the men took parts of religion that satisfied men and inflated it. The parts of the Quran that helped women, they ignored."

So, discuss. :P

Edited by Mechanix

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If the women are up for it, and know the risks and repercussions, then they shouldn't be stopped.

 

But if the family is forcing them to do it, without telling the girl anything about it...

Adding onto that, the licensed doctor doing the procedure should be fully qualified so that no one dies because of it.

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If the women are up for it, and know the risks and repercussions, then they shouldn't be stopped.

 

But if the family is forcing them to do it, without telling the girl anything about it...

 

Well whats the difference between that and what happens in judaism.

 

I think that if it's the woman's choice and she knows all of the possible consuquences and the doctor knows exactly what they're doing, she should be allowed to. I can't imagine why she would, but hey.

 

As i said above ^

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If the women are up for it, and know the risks and repercussions, then they shouldn't be stopped.

 

But if the family is forcing them to do it, without telling the girl anything about it...

 

Well whats the difference between that and what happens in judaism.

 

I think that if it's the woman's choice and she knows all of the possible consuquences and the doctor knows exactly what they're doing, she should be allowed to. I can't imagine why she would, but hey.

 

As i said above ^

they should have a choice too

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Well whats the difference between that and what happens in judaism.

Male circumcision isn't detrimental to health. (In fact, it's beneficial in a few ways.) When a female-circumcised woman has sex for the first time, all the scar tissue that developed is ripped apart. And that's far more painful than a simple hymen-tearing. Not to mention the severe possibility of fatal infection accompanying female circumcision.

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As most of this post is going to be offtopic, I will say this so it isn't complete spam: It shouldn't be up to anyone but the woman it's done to. Same as for males.

Kittenblob, the next time your mom/dad takes you to the doctor, be very suspicious.
Excuse me? Do you tell pregnant women that they should get their tubes tied? Do you tell random girls at school that they should be wearing a chastity belt sometime in the near future? I'd think anyone'd be able to see the line between making a joke and being outright offensive, especially when something's crossed so far into the latter category. And somehow, if I said the same thing to you, it would be looked upon strangely, as if I was someone who regurlarly lights men on fire in the sake of feminism. What makes it okay that people can make sexist and offensive comments? For all anyone knows, I'm a guy. But just because I say I'm a girl on an internet forum where it's 80%? guys, I get tons of stuff said about me (no matter how jokingly). I'm not even going to repeat it. Where do people stop? Even some of my friends sometimes don't know when to stop. But when I finally end up blowing up at whoever is the straw that breaks the camel's back, I end up feeling guilty like I should have to take things like this. And I know that after I post this there's a 50% chance I'm going to ask everyone on novus if they thought I went too far. Why can't people just not treat me as if I'm different because I'm a girl? Why do they have to act as if they'd never seen one before?

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Why can't people just not treat me as if I'm different because I'm a girl? Why do they have to act as if they'd never seen one before?

Because you're part of a very endangered species on the internet.

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Why can't people just not treat me as if I'm different because I'm a girl? Why do they have to act as if they'd never seen one before?

Because you're part of a very endangered species on the internet.

 

That's not funny, either. :s

She's right, people make comments about Kittenblob way too much. Seriously, she didn't go too far.

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If the women are up for it, and know the risks and repercussions, then they shouldn't be stopped.

 

Women? These are 7-13 year old girls. That's precisely why this has become controversial: circumcision is rarely about an adult making an informed, personal choice, but rather the family imposing its religious/cultural tradition upon a child.

 

I think the practice is atrocious and am appalled whenever I read stories like this.

 

Male circumcision isn't detrimental to health. (In fact, it's beneficial in a few ways.)

 

Frankly, I don't support male circumcision either. The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that it's not medically necessary. Furthermore, the medical benefits are pretty insignificant. And as I mentioned before, many infants are circumcised not because their parents have given serious thought to the matter, weighing the pros and cons, but rather because it represents "tradition."

 

-Common Sense

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Male circumcision isn't detrimental to health. (In fact, it's beneficial in a few ways.)

 

Frankly, I don't support male circumcision either. The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that it's not medically necessary. Furthermore, the medical benefits are pretty insignificant. And as I mentioned before, many infants are circumcised not because their parents have given serious thought to the matter, weighing the pros and cons, but rather because it represents "tradition."

 

-Common Sense

It actually does have a medical benefit, and it's a very significant one, but I'm not going to tell the entire forum about it for personal reasons. :blush: I think female circumcision is wrong. From what I've read and understand, the clitoris is the "pleasure", and they're getting the fun of having sex removed. When guys get it done, it doesn't remove the pleasure. It's up to the women to decide, but I wouldn't want to marry someone with their pleasure removed. :s I watched a TV show about couples who can't have babies and where one partner couldn't feel anything. The guy would want to, but he knew the girl didn't have a sex-drive. It's something that causes relationship problems.

Edited by Bub 5000

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Why can't people just not treat me as if I'm different because I'm a girl? Why do they have to act as if they'd never seen one before?

Because you're part of a very endangered species on the internet.

 

That's not funny, either. :blush:

She's right, people make comments about Kittenblob way too much. Seriously, she didn't go too far.

Wasn't meant to be.

 

I think the practice is atrocious and am appalled whenever I read stories like this.

Agree.

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Frankly, I don't support male circumcision either. The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that it's not medically necessary. Furthermore, the medical benefits are pretty insignificant. And as I mentioned before, many infants are circumcised not because their parents have given serious thought to the matter, weighing the pros and cons, but rather because it represents "tradition."

Well, the fact that benefits exist make it clear that it's much less of an issue than female circumcision. And why should the motives for doing it matter? If it's an innocuous tradition, it's not a big deal. The tradition of female circumcision can, in no way, be considered innocuous.

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Kitten doesn't goto doctors, she goes to vets.

useles post yay :blush:

 

If the women are up for it, and know the risks and repercussions, then they shouldn't be stopped.

 

But if the family is forcing them to do it, without telling the girl anything about it...

 

Well whats the difference between that and what happens in judaism.

 

I think that if it's the woman's choice and she knows all of the possible consuquences and the doctor knows exactly what they're doing, she should be allowed to. I can't imagine why she would, but hey.

 

As i said above ^

holly dragondroping batman they do that!

 

Why can't people just not treat me as if I'm different because I'm a girl? Why do they have to act as if they'd never seen one before?

Because you're part of a very endangered species on the internet.

:s

 

If the women are up for it, and know the risks and repercussions, then they shouldn't be stopped.

 

Women? These are 7-13 year old girls. That's precisely why this has become controversial: circumcision is rarely about an adult making an informed, personal choice, but rather the family imposing its religious/cultural tradition upon a child.

 

I think the practice is atrocious and am appalled whenever I read stories like this.

 

Male circumcision isn't detrimental to health. (In fact, it's beneficial in a few ways.)

 

Frankly, I don't support male circumcision either. The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that it's not medically necessary. Furthermore, the medical benefits are pretty insignificant. And as I mentioned before, many infants are circumcised not because their parents have given serious thought to the matter, weighing the pros and cons, but rather because it represents "tradition."

 

-Common Sense

yes but as in most house holds the patents controll the minds of a child

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Kitten doesn't goto doctors, she goes to vets.

useles post yay :xd:

 

If the women are up for it, and know the risks and repercussions, then they shouldn't be stopped.

 

But if the family is forcing them to do it, without telling the girl anything about it...

 

Well whats the difference between that and what happens in judaism.

 

I think that if it's the woman's choice and she knows all of the possible consuquences and the doctor knows exactly what they're doing, she should be allowed to. I can't imagine why she would, but hey.

 

As i said above ^

holly dragondroping batman they do that!

 

Why can't people just not treat me as if I'm different because I'm a girl? Why do they have to act as if they'd never seen one before?

Because you're part of a very endangered species on the internet.

:xd:

 

If the women are up for it, and know the risks and repercussions, then they shouldn't be stopped.

 

Women? These are 7-13 year old girls. That's precisely why this has become controversial: circumcision is rarely about an adult making an informed, personal choice, but rather the family imposing its religious/cultural tradition upon a child.

 

I think the practice is atrocious and am appalled whenever I read stories like this.

 

Male circumcision isn't detrimental to health. (In fact, it's beneficial in a few ways.)

 

Frankly, I don't support male circumcision either. The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that it's not medically necessary. Furthermore, the medical benefits are pretty insignificant. And as I mentioned before, many infants are circumcised not because their parents have given serious thought to the matter, weighing the pros and cons, but rather because it represents "tradition."

 

-Common Sense

yes but as in most house holds the patents controll the minds of a child

Kitten doesn't goto doctors, she goes to vets.

useles post yay ;)

:)

 

holly dragondroping batman they do that!

Chances are, you're circumsized...

:P

 

@aliceinrunechainbod- So with your reasoning, your parents are controlling you? How about right now? There are quite a few people who actually do think for themselves.

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holly dragondroping batman they do that!

Chances are, you're circumsized...

 

yes i am i was talking about female circisom had no ideal they did that

 

 

@aliceinrunechainbod- So with your reasoning, your parents are controlling you? How about right now? There are quite a few people who actually do think for themselves.

(@means at not and)and yes first of all me being circunmcised when i was a newborn <not that i am complaining

they also chose my religon till the age of 13 but they do influnce how you think later in life

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(@means at not and)

Did I mention anywhere on here that it meant otherwise? No. Translated it means such: 'At aliceinrunechainbod' meaning the following comment is directed at you. ;) Look at things before you post on them. :xd:

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Why can't people just not treat me as if I'm different because I'm a girl? Why do they have to act as if they'd never seen one before?

More than half the population here is entering puberty/in some stage of it, and you're one of the more socialable girls on this forum.

 

Clitoris removed=No sexual pleasure

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoris

If the clitoris was the only sexualy sensitive spot for females, people would be having sex in very different ways. Ever heard of the G Spot?

 

 

Anyways, I think female circumcision is something that females should choose for themselves when they reach adulthood, not at an age when they most likely don't even know what it can do. That's pretty much my opinion on everything. It's your choice, just be prepared to deal with the consequences.

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Clitoris removed=No sexual pleasure

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoris

Not to get too far into this, but the Clitoris is not the only source for sexual pleasure.

 

 

Why can't people just not treat me as if I'm different because I'm a girl? Why do they have to act as if they'd never seen one before?

More than half the population here is entering puberty/in some stage of it, and you're one of the more socialable girls on this forum.

 

Clitoris removed=No sexual pleasure

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoris

If the clitoris was the only sexualy sensitive spot for females, people would be having sex in very different ways. Ever heard of the G Spot?

 

 

Anyways, I think female circumcision is something that females should choose for themselves when they reach adulthood, not at an age when they most likely don't even know what it can do. That's pretty much my opinion on everything. It's your choice, just be prepared to deal with the consequences.

 

 

 

Yes, I am aware of the G-spot. From what I know its near impossible to find in a women and even scientists are debating over that...

 

For all anyone knows its just women feeling the sexual pleasure from their clitoris but somewhere else...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-spot

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Yes, I am aware of the G-spot. From what I know its near impossible to find in a women and even scientists are debating over that...

 

For all anyone knows its just women feeling the sexual pleasure from their clitoris but somewhere else...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-spot

I have a feeling this is going to turn into a "is the G-Spot and female ejaculation real" debate, and the only people who can really add to that are sexually active females on the forum. I don't think we have many of those willing to tell their love life to random people on a forum. :aware:

 

In the Wikipedia article you gave, it says:

 

Immediately after publication of Ladas et. al's book professional gynaecologists were skeptical of the reality of the G-spot. In a 1983 Time Magazine article about the G-spot and recent book, Dr. J. Jones Stewart, a gynaecologist was quoted as saying all evidence pointed to the fact that there was no G-spot. Specifically he pointed out that women that had the area (that supposedly contained the g-spot) surgically removed, reported no loss of sensation.
Edited by Bub 5000

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What can you expect from the animals that live in those countries? I very much doubt that anybody would really support the whole forced women thingy. It's almost a rhetorical question.

 

Frankly, I don't support male circumcision either. The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that it's not medically necessary. Furthermore, the medical benefits are pretty insignificant. And as I mentioned before, many infants are circumcised not because their parents have given serious thought to the matter, weighing the pros and cons, but rather because it represents "tradition."

 

-Common Sense

Not being an expert on the matter, I'm not really positive about the whole thing, but from what I've heard that isn't really true.

 

You know the same could be said for a lot of things. One could very easily say that two lungs isn't neccesary. Hmm, are ears medically neccesary? Eyes? There are quite a lot of things that "aren't medically neccesary". That is really vague, to be honest. Unless the American Academy of Pediatrics defines what is medically neccesary, we won't know what their criteria. My examples were somewhat outrageous I'll admit. I just took a few liberties to make a point.

Edited by mormril

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Women? These are 7-13 year old girls. That's precisely why this has become controversial: circumcision is rarely about an adult making an informed, personal choice, but rather the family imposing its religious/cultural tradition upon a child.

Those 7-13 year old girls fall into the second category I listed.

 

Hey! Don't underestimate 13-year-olds' intelligence. I haven't forgotten my empathy for them yet...:aware:

 

holly dragondroping batman they do that!

Chances are, you're circumsized...

 

yes i am i was talking about female circisom had no ideal they did that

 

 

@aliceinrunechainbod- So with your reasoning, your parents are controlling you? How about right now? There are quite a few people who actually do think for themselves.

(@means at not and)and yes first of all me being circunmcised when i was a newborn <not that i am complaining

they also chose my religon till the age of 13 but they do influnce how you think later in life

 

They chose your religion as athiesm at all? Horrible! I can understand and empathize with Christian parents who do it, even though I don't fully agree, but athiests? There's not even an tangible benefit to athiesm! It seems like they're fanatics who're proud of their "wisdom" and lack of ignorance.

I'm sorry if I got a little worked up; it's just frustrating.

 

~Take This Post As Rights To A Civil Rights Case

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