Existentialism

[Unibrowman]

Yeah, it's been awhile, yeah none of you know me / barely remember, but the truth is I don't really care.

Anyway, on to the topic. I had a revelation recently, and that is, that life, ultimately, is meaningless. There is no purpose to life, or a higher meaning, and nothing anyone does truly affects the world. The world, and subsequently the universe, remain neutral throughout. This belief of mine, while it had been culminating in my mind after I fell off from my church (around when I was about 11), was brought about by my reading of The Stranger ~ by Albert Camus. Existentialism, at its core, simply states that there is no real basis for a moral order. It believes only in creating some form of meaning in your life by realizing the sole fact that you exist. I don't really feel like going entirely in depth into it, so if you want go here... Existentialism Wiki

I don't really care if this gets any posts, or whatever, just decided to share a belief I have with you.

[Dark Storm]

You sound a bit like Lord Vega. While I could be possible that life has no meaning, I cannot go through life thinking that way. There would be no reason to try my best at anything knowing that there is no point. I suppose life is meaningless until you give it a meaning.

 

- Dark Storm.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Dark Storm

[jack-nicholson]

I think when one talks about the Existentialism of Camus you go into a very different path from all other Existential philosophies before him. Camus does not have the optimism of Sartre, the vehement passion of Nietzsche, or the technical prowess of Heidegger. Camus borders dangerously on Nihilism, but there is a small light at the end of his philosophy.

In The Myth of Sisyphus, he offers the example of Sisyphus condemned by the gods to ceaselessly roll a boulder up the hill, only to have the boulder roll down the hill just as he was about to reach the top. Sisyphus would walk down the hill, and start again. This is Camus' metaphor for human life; the absurd. Camus does not see life as meaningless per se, but that life was indeed absurd and devoid of any logical meaning. Since all life is directed towards death, and that is our only definite knowledge of what our future is. The Absurd is us confronting the world and feeling awash with fear, and scared of the possibilities. But you must trudge forward like Sisyphus, letting life fill you up and the task living it is enough to make you happy, while being fully conscious of the absurdity of the condition. Camus states three things necessary,for living this life; revolt, freedom and passion. The meaning of life is derived from the direct appearance of it. Camus remarks, "one must imagine Sisyphus happy, for the struggle alone is enough to fill a mans heart". It is the futility of life, the absence of ultimate fulfillment, that pushes forward, consciously realizing that we can never win, that is what life is. We confront the world and call out over the cliff, only to receive no answer.

 

But there are a plethora of other branches of existentialism. It is not a unified philosophy with any central tenants or absolutes. Each philosopher labeled "existentialist" really has very little in common with anyone else labeled an "existentialist". But I would say that "most" existential philosophies deal with the absence of G-d or of absolute tenants in other aspects of life, morality, purpose, etc, with a specific focus on the individual. It is a very diverse philosophical strand, with many odd twist and turns.

[Unibrowman]

I was parsing the article and did notice that there are indeed different facets of Existentialism. But I realized something while walking my dog just now... this is a debate room, not a discussion room. So me simply tossing a belief out there into the wind is not going to get me anywhere, if at all. So I guess I'll ask a question then, Do you, if you are bothering to read this, believe that there is some higher meaning to this life? Or is life, as Camus lays out in in all of his works, meant to solely revolve around simply existing, and living life amorally? (realizing that immoral is different from amoral)

Edited May 9, 2008 by Unibrowman

[jack-nicholson]

Sometimes I wish this was a discussion room, especially because I think this topic is too good to degenerate into the madness that might accompany the above mentioned question.

Life has meaning only in so far as you give it meaning, there is not a a supreme metaphysical meaning to life, no, at least one that is not knowable. I follow Sartre's notion of "existence precedes essence". Man is born, confronts the world and then creates himself. I do not believe there can ever be any "right" meaning of life, only that you must be conscious of the subjectivity of your own experience, and if you set out to impose any morals based on your own phenomenal empiricism is flawed.

 

P.S: I remember you Unibrowman, at least the name, but not the person sadly.

Edited May 9, 2008 by jack-nicholson

[mormril]

Yeah, it's been awhile, yeah none of you know me / barely remember, but the truth is I don't really care.

Anyway, on to the topic. I had a revelation recently, and that is, that life, ultimately, is meaningless. There is no purpose to life, or a higher meaning, and nothing anyone does truly affects the world. The world, and subsequently the universe, remain neutral throughout. This belief of mine, while it had been culminating in my mind after I fell off from my church (around when I was about 11), was brought about by my reading of The Stranger ~ by Albert Camus. Existentialism, at its core, simply states that there is no real basis for a moral order. It believes only in creating some form of meaning in your life by realizing the sole fact that you exist. I don't really feel like going entirely in depth into it, so if you want go here... Existentialism Wiki

I don't really care if this gets any posts, or whatever, just decided to share a belief I have with you.

I remember you, but I don't think it is fair to say that I really knew you. It is doubtful as to whether anybody can really know another person over the internet.

 

I disagree, even though I feel that my life, personally, is meaningless and dreary. Your life might be without purpose, but that does not mean that other people cannot have purpose and meaning in their life.

[9destroyer]

I guess there are several different ways one could look at the topic...

 

Ultimately, according to most astrophisics, the universe is either in for a great collapse, as the "dark matter" will cause the gravitational pull which will overcome the speed at which planets, galaxies etc. are seperating for each other. All the matter that is out there will suddenly start coming dangerously close and collapsing to a state which was present after the big bang. If there is any human life on any planet, it will all evaperate long before this happens, as the overall temperature will become to great for flesh or even rocks to withstand. Therefore, we all live on borrowed time, and while the existance of human race could be prolonged a few hundred billion years or so, there is no chance for eternaty. All the "passage of genes and fammily name" will be ultimatelly meaningless and all that we ever made shall be destroyed.

 

There is also a secong option. The matter could seperate from each other, with planets and solar systems drifting away forever, untill the stars will burn out and the temperature on Earth will reach approximatelly zero absolute. All the human beings will freeze, or they will die of hunger and cold. In this case, there could be a small glimpse of hope for the meaning of life, as the structures we made could survive, unless they are torn apart by the ice. But there will be nobody to contemplate their beauty.

 

In the least probable but most hopefull case, the forces of gravity and the motion that causes stars to move away will cancel out and the universe will reach an equilibrium. I am not sure would the laws of enthropy allow human life to exist for infinity, but it gives the most opportunieties for us to leave a mark on this world which will be noticable for eons after we perish.

[Valethem]

I feel that my life has much purpose, and my actions affect that purpose, and the people in this world which does affect the world. If you are kind to others, you affect their lives, which may affect others. The point i'm trying to make is that if you are just going to give up on life you aren't going to have a meaning fall into your life. God gives us a meaning, and a purpose for living. He also gives us a hope for whats to come, even if our life sucks. Maybe before you feel life is pointless and you commit suicide or whatever, you should give Christ a shot, can't ever hurt?

 

Sorry for bringing religion into this discussion, but its my duty as a Christian to spread Jesus's good news for everyone

[Phoenix Rider]

Nope don't believe in it. Dispite the fact that some may think that life is useless, it dosen't give u the right to destroy a society created in celebration to the gift that is life. Basically, moral order is agreed upon by nearly all members of society. So basically, its the Law which means obay it or be punished. Seems unfair but thats democracy. Majority wins.

[LF Ent]

I'm a Christian, so I believe that the point of life is to serve God and try to save others. But I also think it's good to add something to the world, which I think most people, theist or no, would agree with. :)

 

...and yeah, usually I add a smiley to the end of my post hoping that it will lessen the flaming that I seem to get whether I'm spurting random nonsense or actually being normal.

[Acid]

Don't see the connection between higher power and meaning for myself. I believe the meaning of a person's life is entirely subjective. As for serving a higher being/cause? I have no experience of such a thing.

[Jmaster BCM]

funny thing I had the same thought two days ago...

 

I sort of think there is really no meaning in life, because afterwards it is all for nothing. It's like the boardgame, you go through and it's over. You can try to achieve anything you want to satisfy yourself, but in the end there is only death, wether you have succeded or not. I am a christian, but have started thinking why god put us on earth. I mean, if he wants us to worship him and save others, why not just let everyone start out in heaven. Why send people to hell forever? Overall I believe you cannot have your own purpose in life, for you did not create yourself, but you could have goals, or maybe influence something past your lifetime.

[Doddsy]

I don't agree there is no purpose, you just have to create it. Without purpose there would be no reason to do anything. No reason to act out anything as it is supposed to have no purpose. I believe that everyone has a different purpose but it is self created purpose, wether they realise it or now they have driven a purpose into their life.

 

I do believe in a higher being, not a god or existential being but more a force.

[Forrest Jump]

I believe life is a test. A test that decides whether you spend eternity in heaven or hell. This means that life isn't a waste and perhaps on of the most important things. Even if someone proved me false, i'd still go on living like there's something else out there later. Otherwise i'd spend my life rotting till I died.

[ajay_was_here]

its pretty cold, but i agree with it. I guess you have to give yourself a purpose, follow or lead..save or destroy..live or die. In the end, its really your decision, unaffected

[9destroyer]

I don't agree there is no purpose, you just have to create it. Without purpose there would be no reason to do anything. No reason to act out anything as it is supposed to have no purpose. I believe that everyone has a different purpose but it is self created purpose, wether they realise it or now they have driven a purpose into their life.

 

I do believe in a higher being, not a god or existential being but more a force.

 

The question is: What is the point of us having a purpouse, if all that we or our descendants ever accomplish might turn into dust ?

[Tazz]

I'm an animal, you're an animal.

 

Debate over.

[9destroyer]

I'm an animal, you're an animal.

 

Debate over. :)

 

What has the kingdom of living things you are in to do with the purpouse of your life? If the scientists suddenly found out that humans are a spiecies of mutated fungi, would your life be less (or more ) valuble then it is now?

 

Or do you mean "The purpouse of human lives, just like the animals, is to survive as long as you can and transfer your genes to as much ofspring as possible?

[pnguinlover]

Been readin' some Hemingway lately?

 

Anyway the underlying theme of his work is that the ultimate goal of overcoming the utter oblivion of existentialism is persevearing through day to day life while possesing the knowledge that it is ultimately meaningless

Edited May 18, 2008 by pnguinlover

[Hyrax]

I don't agree there is no purpose, you just have to create it.

 

That's what Sartre's existentialism is all about.

Our existence precedes our essence, we make ourselves what we are.

[Tazz]

I'm an animal, you're an animal.

 

Debate over. :)

 

What has the kingdom of living things you are in to do with the purpouse of your life? If the scientists suddenly found out that humans are a spiecies of mutated fungi, would your life be less (or more ) valuble then it is now?

 

Or do you mean "The purpouse of human lives, just like the animals, is to survive as long as you can and transfer your genes to as much ofspring as possible?

Second silly.