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Valethem

The Reliability Of The Bible

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I don't know, Ari, maybe you oughta ask the experts. I'm just the fall guy.

 

And to be 100% honest, I feel a bit cornered already since I'm not actually a Christian....lulz

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@Ameer: I'm rather sure that none of us knows Aramaic here... :)

 

 

Aaah, cancel the first question out :)

 

 

 

EDIT: It's ok guys, my question has been answered now :aware:

Edited by Ameer

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I believe that the Bible is almost 100% credible in the New Testament section, but in the early old testament such as Genesis and Exodus the accounts are sometimes changed around for people's undesanding. The Bible is meant to teach us morals and values in ways that we can understand, such as parables. One example of this is the story of the slave Joseph becoming the leader of the Egyptians. His brothers were jealous of him because he was given a beautiful cloak by their father and then they actually sold him into slavery. In the end when his brothers begged for food it was Joseph who was their leader. So that is just one example of the values taught.

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A senior citizen really did create an ark (without previous experience may i add) And rounded up two of every animal.

 

Gee it must of been hard for him to get 2 kangaroos from Australia all the way back to the middle east

Edited by Arctic Wolf

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Why atheists always pick on those who believe in a god, I have yet to understand. Honestly, a true atheist wouldn't bother arguing over a god who they believe doesn't exist. If you pick resources to site, pick those that are known to be unbiased. In other words, the scientist can't be atheist or Christian.

 

Wasn't aware of this, because I always remembered it the other way round. Athiests don't make up some epic adventurous tale to explain impossible things and somehow justify some big dude in the sky doing big awesome things.

 

Common sense will easily destroy the reliablity of the Bible, unfortunately the only thing that stands in the way are some extremely religious people making up some obviously impossible stories to protect it, aKa rule bending.

 

I haven't seen someone that criticizes the bible in this forum that doesn't use logic, not "rule bending". Not true for the other way.

Edited by cjgone

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I dont believe in religion, so the bible to me is just a book made up to have people follow christianity.

 

As I personally don't believe in god, well not that I don't believe he existed, I just don't believe he was our savior, or for that matter that we had one.

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I'm know to the topic and I only scimmed so sorry if some has already said any of this.

 

The first thing I would like to prove is the exodus. There was a scroll found in the area of Memphis, near the pyramids of Saqqara in Egypt. This scroll called the Ipuwer Papyrus depictes parts of the exodus. (in spoiler)

 

 

The blood plague

In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:5-6, it says: Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere. Compare this with the Book of Exodus 7:21: There was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.

In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:10, it says: The River is Blood. Compare with Exodus 7:20: All the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.

 

The hail plague

Ipuwer papyrus 9:23: The fire ran along the ground. There was hail, and fire mingled with the hail. Exodus 9:25: And the hail smote every herb on the field, and brake every tree in the field.

 

The darkness plague

Ipuwer Papyrus 9:11: The land is not light. Exodus 10:22: And there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt.

 

The livestock plague

Ipuwer papyrus 5:5: All animals, their hearts weep. Cattle moan. Exodus 9:3: Behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the cabbages, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be grievous murrain

 

death of the first born plague

Ipuwer Papyrus 2:13: He who places his brother in the ground is everywhere. Exodus 12:27: He (the angel of the Lord) smote the Egyptians. Ipuwer Papyrus 4:3: Forsooth, the children of princes are dashed against the walls. Exodus 12:29: At midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt. Ipuwer Papyrus 6:12: Forsooth, the children of the princes are cast out in the streets, Exodus 12:30: There was not a house where there was not one dead.

 

 

 

 

Not convince maybe some prophecys will convince you.

 

 

1. The Jewish people would be scattered worldwide; yet Israel would become a nation again-ref Isa 66:8; Mic 5:3

This came true on may 14 of 1948. For the last 2500 years, approximately fourteen different peoples have possessed the land of Israel. Nevertheless, the Bible showed that the day would come when the nation of Israel would be reborn.

2. Israel must regain the city of Jerusalem-Joel 2:32; Isa 28:14; Ezek 22:19

This happened in 1967.

3. The Bible gives us over 50 descriptions about the people at the time of the end(I'm not saying that the end is near). Here are some:

A. Some would depart from the faith and go into devil worship-1 Tim 4:1.

B. People would have no conscience-1 Tim 4:1,2.

C. People would mock about the last days and not believe-2 Pe 3:3; Jude 18.

D. People would become lovers of themselves-2 Tim 3:1,2. Remember the TV commercials—“I do it for me”?

E.People would be disobeying their parents-2 Tim 3:1,2.

F. People would be grateful for nothing-2 Tim 3:1,2.

G. Homosexuality would increase-Lk 17:28,30; ref Gen 19:5; Ro 1:24,26,27.

H.People would be without self-control in sex-2 Tim 3:1,2,6; Rev 9:21, Lk 17:28,30; Jude 7. Is this not the great sex generation?

I. People would be untrustworthy, friends would betray friends-2 Tim 3:1-3.

J. People would love pleasures more than God-2 Tim 3:1,2,4

K. People would be taking drugs

 

4. There would be weapons that could destroy the world-Mk 13:20; Rev 6:8; Rev 9:18; Zech 14:8,12.

It is estimated that the combined nuclear arsenals of the USA and Russia (as of the year 2000) could kill every living thing on earth 6 times over.

 

5. The Gospel must be published in all the world-Mk 13:10.

The Bible has been printed in every language on eart

 

6. In the latter days when Israel was once again a nation, there would be a great military power to the extreme north of Israel in the land of Magog (which is modern-day Russia)-Ezek 38:2-4,8,15,16. Incredible. That’s 14 out of 14.

 

7. There would be a nation to the far east of Israel, to the end of the earth. This nation would have an army of 200 million.China's army is very close to this number.

 

8. The currency in Israel at the time of the end would be the shekel.

Up until June 1980 the currency was the isreali pound, it is now the shekel.

 

 

 

 

Is science more convincing??

 

 

There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 1 cor.15:41

During this time there weren't telescopes so all the know about stars was what could be seen with the naked eye. This states that all star are different.

 

He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing. Job 26:7

This states that the earth is not held in place by anything that can be seen (gravity).

 

The wind goes toward the south, And turns around to the north; The wind whirls about continually, And comes again on its circuit. Eccl. 1:6

Sounds like the air moves to the equator warms and then moves to the poles cools and goes back ect.

 

For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’ Lev 17:11

The blood carries food and water to the cell. Blood cirulation was not discovered until 1616 William Harvey.

 

For He draws up drops of water, Which distill as rain from the mist, Which the clouds drop down And pour abundantly on man. Indeed, can anyone understand the spreading of clouds, The thunder from His canopy? Job 36:27-29

This sounds alot like the water cycle. Wait, it is the water cycle.

 

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up 2 peter 3:10

That kinda sounds like a nuclear explosion. But how could people have know about them in 67 A.D.?

 

 

 

 

 

The message is true. Most of the stories are false.

 

Take creation. Do you really think anyone was around for creation? No? Then it's complete fiction.

Know one was around when the dinosaurs were alive so they must be complete fiction.

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I'm know to the topic and I only scimmed so sorry if some has already said any of this.

 

The first thing I would like to prove is the exodus. There was a scroll found in the area of Memphis, near the pyramids of Saqqara in Egypt. This scroll called the Ipuwer Papyrus depictes parts of the exodus. (in spoiler)

 

 

The blood plague

In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:5-6, it says: Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere. Compare this with the Book of Exodus 7:21: There was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.

In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:10, it says: The River is Blood. Compare with Exodus 7:20: All the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.

 

The hail plague

Ipuwer papyrus 9:23: The fire ran along the ground. There was hail, and fire mingled with the hail. Exodus 9:25: And the hail smote every herb on the field, and brake every tree in the field.

 

The darkness plague

Ipuwer Papyrus 9:11: The land is not light. Exodus 10:22: And there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt.

 

The livestock plague

Ipuwer papyrus 5:5: All animals, their hearts weep. Cattle moan. Exodus 9:3: Behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the cabbages, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be grievous murrain

 

death of the first born plague

Ipuwer Papyrus 2:13: He who places his brother in the ground is everywhere. Exodus 12:27: He (the angel of the Lord) smote the Egyptians. Ipuwer Papyrus 4:3: Forsooth, the children of princes are dashed against the walls. Exodus 12:29: At midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt. Ipuwer Papyrus 6:12: Forsooth, the children of the princes are cast out in the streets, Exodus 12:30: There was not a house where there was not one dead.

 

 

 

 

Not convince maybe some prophecys will convince you.

 

 

1. The Jewish people would be scattered worldwide; yet Israel would become a nation again-ref Isa 66:8; Mic 5:3

This came true on may 14 of 1948. For the last 2500 years, approximately fourteen different peoples have possessed the land of Israel. Nevertheless, the Bible showed that the day would come when the nation of Israel would be reborn.

2. Israel must regain the city of Jerusalem-Joel 2:32; Isa 28:14; Ezek 22:19

This happened in 1967.

3. The Bible gives us over 50 descriptions about the people at the time of the end(I'm not saying that the end is near). Here are some:

A. Some would depart from the faith and go into devil worship-1 Tim 4:1.

B. People would have no conscience-1 Tim 4:1,2.

C. People would mock about the last days and not believe-2 Pe 3:3; Jude 18.

D. People would become lovers of themselves-2 Tim 3:1,2. Remember the TV commercials—“I do it for me”?

E.People would be disobeying their parents-2 Tim 3:1,2.

F. People would be grateful for nothing-2 Tim 3:1,2.

G. Homosexuality would increase-Lk 17:28,30; ref Gen 19:5; Ro 1:24,26,27.

H.People would be without self-control in sex-2 Tim 3:1,2,6; Rev 9:21, Lk 17:28,30; Jude 7. Is this not the great sex generation?

I. People would be untrustworthy, friends would betray friends-2 Tim 3:1-3.

J. People would love pleasures more than God-2 Tim 3:1,2,4

K. People would be taking drugs

 

4. There would be weapons that could destroy the world-Mk 13:20; Rev 6:8; Rev 9:18; Zech 14:8,12.

It is estimated that the combined nuclear arsenals of the USA and Russia (as of the year 2000) could kill every living thing on earth 6 times over.

 

5. The Gospel must be published in all the world-Mk 13:10.

The Bible has been printed in every language on eart

 

6. In the latter days when Israel was once again a nation, there would be a great military power to the extreme north of Israel in the land of Magog (which is modern-day Russia)-Ezek 38:2-4,8,15,16. Incredible. That’s 14 out of 14.

 

7. There would be a nation to the far east of Israel, to the end of the earth. This nation would have an army of 200 million.China's army is very close to this number.

 

8. The currency in Israel at the time of the end would be the shekel.

Up until June 1980 the currency was the isreali pound, it is now the shekel.

 

 

 

 

Is science more convincing??

 

 

There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 1 cor.15:41

During this time there weren't telescopes so all the know about stars was what could be seen with the naked eye. This states that all star are different.

 

He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing. Job 26:7

This states that the earth is not held in place by anything that can be seen (gravity).

 

The wind goes toward the south, And turns around to the north; The wind whirls about continually, And comes again on its circuit. Eccl. 1:6

Sounds like the air moves to the equator warms and then moves to the poles cools and goes back ect.

 

For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’ Lev 17:11

The blood carries food and water to the cell. Blood cirulation was not discovered until 1616 William Harvey.

 

For He draws up drops of water, Which distill as rain from the mist, Which the clouds drop down And pour abundantly on man. Indeed, can anyone understand the spreading of clouds, The thunder from His canopy? Job 36:27-29

This sounds alot like the water cycle. Wait, it is the water cycle.

 

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up 2 peter 3:10

That kinda sounds like a nuclear explosion. But how could people have know about them in 67 A.D.?

 

 

 

 

 

The message is true. Most of the stories are false.

 

Take creation. Do you really think anyone was around for creation? No? Then it's complete fiction.

Know one was around when the dinosaurs were alive so they must be complete fiction.

 

Very interesting. I have to point out that some of the explicit prophecies should be accredited to Judaism, not Christianity.

 

Oh, and, question: Is Elihu meant to be inspired by God? This really should be accredited to the Jews, not Christians.

 

Leviticus is entirely attributed to the Jews as well. If anything, i'm more convinced that Judaism is the one and true faith.

 

Again, Ecclesiastes is for the Jews only proving their faith, not Christianity. Besides, you're ignoring the main use of the passage. It's this Teacher being the son of David (as) moaning about the Earth and time, as is thus:

 

"'Meaningless! Meaningless!'

says the Teacher.

'Utterly meaningless!

Everything is meaningless.

 

What does man gain from all his labour at which he toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains for ever. The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises ..." That is scientific? His speech is pretty literal if we truly look to this passage. He continues:

 

"The wind blows to the south and turns to the north, round and round it goes, ever returning on its course."

 

It's pretty easy to realise he's talking about the land he lives in. Going to the south and coming north was basically anyone knew that day as being common knowledge - nothing significant at all. This has absolutely no connection with the wind directing to the equator, the poles and all the way back up north by the slightest. South and north. Wow, that's amazing.

 

Once again, Job is attributed to the Jews. The gravity is something he said about "nothing". "Nothing" means nothing. It doesn't say anything about a force or that which pertains to gravity. The water cycle bit is impresseve though (for JUDAISM).

 

I don't think glory is much taking the sun and moon for glory and placing the stars into one group and then saying each star differs in glory; resulting in contradiction. That, or the text doesn't fit together and hence makes no sense.

 

As for peter, the Greek/Aramaic studies for the NIV use "fire" to be used in the context and not "fervent heat"; plus it doesn't attribute much to modern science as in the Universe's state at the end of time.

 

The authenticity still differs. What does that achieve in perfections since we may as well say how has the Quran remained perfectly authentic without even one letter being taken out of its place with evidence from the Istanbul Museum dating Quranic scriptures back to the very early days of Islam.

 

In all, if it weren't for the introduction of Genesis severely opposing science, and the many clear-cut contradictions found with one book of any of the two Testaments, and the explicit prophecies on the coming of Prophet Muhammed (s) even mentioning his name in the original Hebrew text (prior to it with a perfect description of Muhammed's physical stature and position), I would have probably accepted either Judaism or (the least likely) Christianity by now.

 

Sorry, but that's all I have to say :wizard:

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Considering that the Torah and Koran were written before the bible...

 

The Torah is a part of the Bible. It constitutes the majority of what the Old Testament holds; the rest is the Psalms since that was a seperate book of revelation which is not one of the books of the Torah (we shouldn't forget that the Torah is a volume of many books whose authors were believed to be either God or men inspired by God). So both the Torah and Psalms make up the Old Testament.

Edited by Ameer

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Considering that the Torah and Koran were written before the bible...

 

The Torah is a part of the Bible. It constitutes the majority of what the Old Testament holds; the rest is the Psalms since that was a seperate book of revelation which is not one of the books of the Torah (we shouldn't forget that the Torah is a volume of many books whose authors were believed to be either God or men inspired by God). So both the Torah and Psalms make up the Old Testament.

 

And the Koran was written in the sixth century, was it not?

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100% reliable? And Judas Ischariot died...how?

I believe he hanged himself, right?

 

Matthew 27: 5

 

Then he threw down th epieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.

 

But the Acts 1:18 say: "And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out."

 

It's rather hard for a hanged man to fall HEADLONG...isn't it? :aware:

 

 

Not everything was exactly how it was written. But kit is a still a reliable source to christians. Like Jesus did not really make Eve out of a rib from Adam and nor did Jesus make Adam out of the dust of the earth. It is more to be a reliable source showing how things connect.

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Considering that the Torah and Koran were written before the bible...

 

The Torah is a part of the Bible. It constitutes the majority of what the Old Testament holds; the rest is the Psalms since that was a seperate book of revelation which is not one of the books of the Torah (we shouldn't forget that the Torah is a volume of many books whose authors were believed to be either God or men inspired by God). So both the Torah and Psalms make up the Old Testament.

 

And the Koran was written in the sixth century, was it not?

 

Yep, around the sixth century. The Evangel (New Testament) or mainly the four Gospels was/were written a century after Jesus' departure.

 

The Quran was written probably after the volume of the Torah, the book of Psalms and the volume of the Evangel was collected as "The Bible".

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