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Redskins919

War In Iraq

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I hate to be disrespectful, but Russia and England were getting their butts kicked. I'm sorry but it's true. And not to mention how China was fairing against the Japanese... :)

Sure, Russia and Britain were taking a pounding, but so was Germany. I think Hitler would have had a hell of a time going after Russia, even if we hadn't intervened. The two-front strategy the Germans were using was just too costly to use once the Blitzkreig slowed. Yes the US saved millions of lives, and yes, we did the right thing in WWII, and pretty much fought the Japanese singlehandedly, but I don't think Hitler could have defeated both Britain and Russia.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Hitler already had enacted Operation Barbarossa, the biggest land grab in human history. He was on Moscows doorstep, and had the outskirts of Leningrad and Stalingrad, so the morale of Russians, if they knew America wouldn't come, would be nonexistant. And it wasn't really a two-front war when America joined--The Nazi Blitzkreig had already swept over France. The British were getting bombed almost nightly, and they weren't doing outstanding against the Italians in Africa. Oh, and the British navy had failed to protect it's colonies in South-East Asia from being swept over by the Japanese, so we Americans had to liberate them.

 

So, because we allowed the Taliban to take control of Afghanistan, the Taliban turn against us? :) That makes absolutely no sense.

Finway, stop trying to consider the Taliban's actions logically :P They were violently unstable and religious, and it's very hard to continue like that without a great boogieman to distract people with. The Soviets collapsed, and that left the US, which promptly was turned into the new enemy. We don't have to give them humanitarian aid, but giving them a bunch of weapons and leaving them alone is not going to produce democracy. Gratitude only goes so far, and the weapons in the country mean that the voices that are going to be heard aren't going to be the most rational, but the ones with the most firepower.

 

+1!

 

U hit the nail on the head there Necho. The Taliban are crazy extremists. Their theological and ideological beliefs prove that much. These people, after years of war it the Russians have turned wat is otherwise a perfectly sound religion into a violent belief that every1 not Islamic must die. They are crazy. Whether it was the war that resulted in such beliefs or their upbringing is beyond me but the facts are clear. Leaving Afghanistan abandoned and full of guns with guys like these was probably one of the factors that resulted in the creation of Al Qaeda and probably 9/11. :)

 

Harsh reality but true I'm afraid. :aware:

Okay, so then in reality it's not America's fault for 9/11, it's the crazy theoligical extremists, right?

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So, because we allowed the Taliban to take control of Afghanistan, the Taliban turn against us? :) That makes absolutely no sense.

Finway, stop trying to consider the Taliban's actions logically :P They were violently unstable and religious, and it's very hard to continue like that without a great boogieman to distract people with. The Soviets collapsed, and that left the US, which promptly was turned into the new enemy. We don't have to give them humanitarian aid, but giving them a bunch of weapons and leaving them alone is not going to produce democracy. Gratitude only goes so far, and the weapons in the country mean that the voices that are going to be heard aren't going to be the most rational, but the ones with the most firepower.

 

+1!

 

U hit the nail on the head there Necho. The Taliban are crazy extremists. Their theological and ideological beliefs prove that much. These people, after years of war it the Russians have turned wat is otherwise a perfectly sound religion into a violent belief that every1 not Islamic must die. They are crazy. Whether it was the war that resulted in such beliefs or their upbringing is beyond me but the facts are clear. Leaving Afghanistan abandoned and full of guns with guys like these was probably one of the factors that resulted in the creation of Al Qaeda and probably 9/11. :)

 

Harsh reality but true I'm afraid. :aware:

Okay, so then in reality it's not America's fault for 9/11, it's the crazy theoligical extremists, right?

 

Yes but u guys allowed their ideology a chance to breed. U gave fertile land by abandoning Afghanistan like that. Yes, Al Qaeda was responsible for 9/11 and other atrocities but Al Qaeda was the result of the U.S's lack of precaution against the teological extremism they preach. U get wat I saying here right? It's all a complicated web of Geo Political blunders and mistakes that lead into the formation of a global terrorist network bent in the destruction of the free world. :)

Edited by Phoenix Rider

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And FYI, America did not save the World in WW2. If I had £1 every time I heard an ignorant and uneducated American claim they did, I'd be a multimillionaire.

I hate to be disrespectful, but Russia and England were getting their butts kicked. I'm sorry but it's true. And not to mention how China was fairing against the Japanese... :aware:

 

 

The war wasn't getting very far admittedly. But a large proportion of Americans I've spoken to are under some illusion that they are the saviours of the world, and ended WW2 single handedly.

 

We don't even know if the world needed saving. Even if Germany won, it doesn't mean the world would become a terrible place. And the war would have stopped eventually, America's involvement did bring it about a couple of years sooner, but it definitely would have happened.

 

I read some history book, where it said that the Russians did a lot more than there credited for, as when Germany invaded Russia, they sat it out until the winter, then killed the German's using superior tactics.

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So, because we allowed the Taliban to take control of Afghanistan, the Taliban turn against us? :) That makes absolutely no sense.

Finway, stop trying to consider the Taliban's actions logically :P They were violently unstable and religious, and it's very hard to continue like that without a great boogieman to distract people with. The Soviets collapsed, and that left the US, which promptly was turned into the new enemy. We don't have to give them humanitarian aid, but giving them a bunch of weapons and leaving them alone is not going to produce democracy. Gratitude only goes so far, and the weapons in the country mean that the voices that are going to be heard aren't going to be the most rational, but the ones with the most firepower.

 

+1!

 

U hit the nail on the head there Necho. The Taliban are crazy extremists. Their theological and ideological beliefs prove that much. These people, after years of war it the Russians have turned wat is otherwise a perfectly sound religion into a violent belief that every1 not Islamic must die. They are crazy. Whether it was the war that resulted in such beliefs or their upbringing is beyond me but the facts are clear. Leaving Afghanistan abandoned and full of guns with guys like these was probably one of the factors that resulted in the creation of Al Qaeda and probably 9/11. :)

 

Harsh reality but true I'm afraid. :aware:

Okay, so then in reality it's not America's fault for 9/11, it's the crazy theoligical extremists, right?

 

Yes but u guys allowed their ideology a chance to breed. U gave fertile land by abandoning Afghanistan like that. Yes, Al Qaeda was responsible for 9/11 and other atrocities but Al Qaeda was the result of the U.S's lack of precaution against the teological extremism they preach. U get wat I saying here right? It's all a complicated web of Geo Political blunders and mistakes that lead into the formation of a global terrorist network bent in the destruction of the free world. :)

We had no idea that the Taliban would turn against us--after all, we gave them weapons and pretty much gave them Afghanistan. If anything, they should be thankful for that. Does their ideaolgy teach that you should cry to the USA for help until the problem (the Soviet Union) is solved, and then stab them in the back?

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So, because we allowed the Taliban to take control of Afghanistan, the Taliban turn against us? :) That makes absolutely no sense.

Finway, stop trying to consider the Taliban's actions logically :/ They were violently unstable and religious, and it's very hard to continue like that without a great boogieman to distract people with. The Soviets collapsed, and that left the US, which promptly was turned into the new enemy. We don't have to give them humanitarian aid, but giving them a bunch of weapons and leaving them alone is not going to produce democracy. Gratitude only goes so far, and the weapons in the country mean that the voices that are going to be heard aren't going to be the most rational, but the ones with the most firepower.

 

+1!

 

U hit the nail on the head there Necho. The Taliban are crazy extremists. Their theological and ideological beliefs prove that much. These people, after years of war it the Russians have turned wat is otherwise a perfectly sound religion into a violent belief that every1 not Islamic must die. They are crazy. Whether it was the war that resulted in such beliefs or their upbringing is beyond me but the facts are clear. Leaving Afghanistan abandoned and full of guns with guys like these was probably one of the factors that resulted in the creation of Al Qaeda and probably 9/11. :)

 

Harsh reality but true I'm afraid. :aware:

Okay, so then in reality it's not America's fault for 9/11, it's the crazy theoligical extremists, right?

 

Yes but u guys allowed their ideology a chance to breed. U gave fertile land by abandoning Afghanistan like that. Yes, Al Qaeda was responsible for 9/11 and other atrocities but Al Qaeda was the result of the U.S's lack of precaution against the teological extremism they preach. U get wat I saying here right? It's all a complicated web of Geo Political blunders and mistakes that lead into the formation of a global terrorist network bent in the destruction of the free world. :P

We had no idea that the Taliban would turn against us--after all, we gave them weapons and pretty much gave them Afghanistan. If anything, they should be thankful for that. Does their ideaolgy teach that you should cry to the USA for help until the problem (the Soviet Union) is solved, and then stab them in the back?

 

Yes but many expect more from the U.S. There were already CIA reports of the influx of radicals into the country after the war. U guys should have seen that the democratic government in Afghanistan was nothing compared to the Mujahidins. In the early 90's there were already signs of insurgentcy within the country. There were already signs of violence taking place within the state. All Im saying is that u abandoned them. The U.S could have done more. If u guys would have rebuilded the country, proteced the state and it's leaders, foresaw the rise of extremism and worked closely with Pakistan and other muslim states to flush them out, the world might be safer.

 

U never know when u can catch a illness. But we take precautions to prevent them. The U.S should have foresaw this. :)

Edited by Phoenix Rider

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And FYI, America did not save the World in WW2. If I had £1 every time I heard an ignorant and uneducated American claim they did, I'd be a multimillionaire.

I hate to be disrespectful, but Russia and England were getting their butts kicked. I'm sorry but it's true. And not to mention how China was fairing against the Japanese... :aware:

 

 

The war wasn't getting very far admittedly. But a large proportion of Americans I've spoken to are under some illusion that they are the saviours of the world, and ended WW2 single handedly.

 

We don't even know if the world needed saving. Even if Germany won, it doesn't mean the world would become a terrible place. And the war would have stopped eventually, America's involvement did bring it about a couple of years sooner, but it definitely would have happened.

 

I read some history book, where it said that the Russians did a lot more than there credited for, as when Germany invaded Russia, they sat it out until the winter, then killed the German's using superior tactics.

I really hope you didn't mean that. Hitler wanted the Slavs, Jews, and Africans eradicated. That's hundreds of millions of people. Also, just a couple of years sooner could have meant the lives of millions more people.

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It's been almost 5 years since the USA got involved in the Middle East and Afghanistan. I say it's gone on too long and it's time to leave. I don't care what everyone says I say Nuke Iraq and Afghanistan and then leave the stupid countries. If they want to kill American soldiers then they can taste my nukes. And if they don't surrender then, I'm killing anyone that looks like a terrorist or they might have a gun on them. I have had enough with this BS limited war. Every war that we have done limited junk, we have lost over 115,000 soldiers. What are we going to do? Loose another 115,000 troops before we go all out again. It's time for the War in Iraq to become an actual war and not a human rights fest!

 

U sir are an arrogant, ignorant and blind fool who knows absolutely nothing about the political, military, social and economic situation in the Middle East. Yeah, sure, let's nuke these countries and laugh about it! Let's kill the lives of many and cause extreme suffering in those 2 states!

 

U fail to see that the violence in Iraq is more complicated than terrorists hiding in caves! it's a civil, sectarian division between members of the population. If the U.S wishes this to stop then not only must use military force against the insurgents but they must also provide crucial economic and social assistance to all sectors of the Iraqi Population so that all sides will feel that they are equal in human developments and thus limiting the insurgent's ability to recruit members of the population.

 

Also, a sufficient power sharing deal between members of the both the Sunnis, Shias, Kurds and Arabs. A central coalition government must be established in Baghdad with Representatives from all sectors of the community. Thus this takes away the inequality in the government and takes away another excuse for the insurgents to get recruits.

 

And last but not least, the U.S MUST and ALWAYS show restraint in their military actions. Violations on the Geneva Convention and the Universal Declaration on Human Rights such and nuking, mass murder, genocide and further war crimes will only increase the hate against the American forces in Iraq. Show them that u are both a military and Reconstruction force. Maintain security but at the same time begin a gradual, responsible withdrawal from the country.

 

It is only with these steps that Iraq can truly move on. So pls, show some signs of intelligent and study the situation in the ground before posting such destructive and foolish statements. :aware:

 

 

Just wanted to clear things up and to point out the ovious. IT"S THE U.S's FAULT WE'RE IN THIS MESS. :)

 

Thank you, well said.

 

It is amazing what some Americans say these days...

Edited by Kommunist Propaganda

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Either way you'd hate bush... if he didnt you'd be mad because he wasn't protecting America. But know that he is, he is getting Americans killed. You all think it's terrible but imagine what would be happening if we made no action like you "anti-iraq war" suggest?

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Either way you'd hate bush... if he didnt you'd be mad because he wasn't protecting America. But know that he is, he is getting Americans killed. You all think it's terrible but imagine what would be happening if we made no action like you "anti-iraq war" suggest?

If we didn't invade Iraq we could have kept forces in Afghanistan and captured Osama Bin Laden, which was actually WORTH doing. The only "downside" would be that Saddam would still be in power, but there are dictators worse than him and I don't see us running to the "rescue" for those countries.

 

I don't think anyone actually supported the idea of doing nothing after 9/11, rather actually go after people connected to the attacks.

Edited by Adam?

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And FYI, America did not save the World in WW2. If I had £1 every time I heard an ignorant and uneducated American claim they did, I'd be a multimillionaire.

I hate to be disrespectful, but Russia and England were getting their butts kicked. I'm sorry but it's true. And not to mention how China was fairing against the Japanese... :aware:

 

 

The war wasn't getting very far admittedly. But a large proportion of Americans I've spoken to are under some illusion that they are the saviours of the world, and ended WW2 single handedly.

 

We don't even know if the world needed saving. Even if Germany won, it doesn't mean the world would become a terrible place. And the war would have stopped eventually, America's involvement did bring it about a couple of years sooner, but it definitely would have happened.

 

I read some history book, where it said that the Russians did a lot more than there credited for, as when Germany invaded Russia, they sat it out until the winter, then killed the German's using superior tactics.

I really hope you didn't mean that. Hitler wanted the Slavs, Jews, and Africans eradicated. That's hundreds of millions of people. Also, just a couple of years sooner could have meant the lives of millions more people.

 

and the homosexuals and the Gypsies

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And FYI, America did not save the World in WW2. If I had £1 every time I heard an ignorant and uneducated American claim they did, I'd be a multimillionaire.

I hate to be disrespectful, but Russia and England were getting their butts kicked. I'm sorry but it's true. And not to mention how China was fairing against the Japanese... :)

 

 

The war wasn't getting very far admittedly. But a large proportion of Americans I've spoken to are under some illusion that they are the saviours of the world, and ended WW2 single handedly.

 

We don't even know if the world needed saving. Even if Germany won, it doesn't mean the world would become a terrible place. And the war would have stopped eventually, America's involvement did bring it about a couple of years sooner, but it definitely would have happened.

 

I read some history book, where it said that the Russians did a lot more than there credited for, as when Germany invaded Russia, they sat it out until the winter, then killed the German's using superior tactics.

I really hope you didn't mean that. Hitler wanted the Slavs, Jews, and Africans eradicated. That's hundreds of millions of people. Also, just a couple of years sooner could have meant the lives of millions more people.

 

and the homosexuals and the Gypsies

 

Don't forget the genetically and physically deformed, any1 not considered to be part of the Arian Race, Jehovas Witness and CATHOLICS. Yeah if he won I would be dead! :) Curse u Hitler! :aware:

 

Better to end the war sooner than later. That logic cannot be argued against.

 

P.S - Yes if germany won, the world would be a terrible place. Jesus! The Nazis wore black, chanted anti semitic slogans, tortured, killed, etc, ect. They had evil painted on their foreheads! :)

Edited by Phoenix Rider

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Either way you'd hate bush... if he didnt you'd be mad because he wasn't protecting America. But know that he is, he is getting Americans killed. You all think it's terrible but imagine what would be happening if we made no action like you "anti-iraq war" suggest?

If we didn't invade Iraq we could have kept forces in Afghanistan and captured Osama Bin Laden, which was actually WORTH doing. The only "downside" would be that Saddam would still be in power, but there are dictators worse than him and I don't see us running to the "rescue" for those countries.

 

I don't think anyone actually supported the idea of doing nothing after 9/11, rather actually go after people connected to the attacks.

Actually, we came pretty close to catching Osama in 2001, but he paid off local warlords who had sided with the US to let him escape. Also, there were some chances to get him when Clinton was pesident. Bin Laden was a wanted man then, as well.

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When World War II was started, The U.S. Did not wish to take part in the war as they did not want to loose any more money. But since Hitler was allied with Japan, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor in 1943 (D-Day). While Hitler was focusing on taking over Europe and the concentration camps. After the U.S. Successfully won the battle with Japan after dropping the Atomic Bomb, they were shipping supplies and such to England so they could hold the Germans off as now the U.S. were participating in the war, because of the U.S. supplying England, England managed to survive. If the U.S. did not supply England, Hitler would have taken ALL of Europe and would be virtually unstoppable.

 

Oh lawd, I laughed about ten minutes after reading this. It completely ignores the real timeline. Sorry, I recognize that this is further back, but I gotta go into this.

 

Firstly, as Finway stated, WWII began in 1939 after Germany completely invaded Poland. They had been chipping away for quite some time but they did not actually invade Poland until 1939. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. It was also not D-Day. That was when the Allies landed in Normandy in 1944, and it indicated the beginning of the end for the Nazis. The US did drop the bomb on Japan, and that's one of the two facts that you have correct. But it was AFTER Germany had capitulated, almost six months after, in fact. The German nuclear scientists were already quite settled in Farm Hall by the time the bomb was dropped. And if the US hadn't supplied England, Hitler still wouldn't have won, because they upset Russia. They would have stopped Hitler eventually.

 

And FYI, America did not save the World in WW2.

 

Sources pl0x. Remember who had the largest industrial production in WWII? Riiight, it wasn't America. Sure it wasn't.

 

And you know who helped design the Spitfire? North American Aviation. The atom bomb? America. The P-51? America. The M1 Garand? America.

 

Geez, try to watch who you call uneducated.

Edited by Redout

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This war has the same cause as poverty and famine, people want security, witch is fine, but at what cost? Every action has a reaction your luxury is an others poverty.

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And FYI, America did not save the World in WW2. If I had £1 every time I heard an ignorant and uneducated American claim they did, I'd be a multimillionaire.

I hate to be disrespectful, but Russia and England were getting their butts kicked. I'm sorry but it's true. And not to mention how China was fairing against the Japanese... :)

The war wasn't getting very far admittedly. But a large proportion of Americans I've spoken to are under some illusion that they are the saviours of the world, and ended WW2 single handedly.

 

We don't even know if the world needed saving. Even if Germany won, it doesn't mean the world would become a terrible place. And the war would have stopped eventually, America's involvement did bring it about a couple of years sooner, but it definitely would have happened.

 

I read some history book, where it said that the Russians did a lot more than there credited for, as when Germany invaded Russia, they sat it out until the winter, then killed the German's using superior tactics.

I really hope you didn't mean that. Hitler wanted the Slavs, Jews, and Africans eradicated. That's hundreds of millions of people. Also, just a couple of years sooner could have meant the lives of millions more people.

 

Proof?

 

You can't say what could have happened. Sure, it could have been horrible, but on the other hand, it might not have been. We don't know. Hitler might have lost power. We can't say "otherwise the world would be a terrible place" because we don't know if it would have been. Sure, it did look like it wouldn't be to great from the point of view of what we know about Hitler and his plans, but that could have changed, and if they had won, might not have been realised.

 

 

And FYI, America did not save the World in WW2.

 

Sources pl0x. Remember who had the largest industrial production in WWII? Riiight, it wasn't America. Sure it wasn't.

 

And you know who helped design the Spitfire? North American Aviation. The atom bomb? America. The P-51? America. The M1 Garand? America.

 

Geez, try to watch who you call uneducated.

 

Sorry! I forgot! Now let's all worship America! After all, they did save the world single-handedly!

 

Now I have to repeat myself all over again.

 

The world didn't necessarily need saving. WW2 would have ended eventually, sure America brought about the end of the war sooner than expected, and have great help to the Allies, but they did not save the world.

 

The outcome of WW2 was a joint effort between the allies and even if a country had the largest industrial production it doesn't mean it "saved the world".

 

And you know who helped design the Spitfire? North American Aviation. The atom bomb? America. The P-51? America. The M1 Garand? America.

 

Source?

 

North American Aviation did not help design the spitfire. Source. And even if they had, who flew them? The British. Or are you going to take credit for that too?

 

Sure, the creator of the object made the object, but it doesn't mean they take the credit for how it's used.

 

For example, a person shoots another with a rifle. Is the rifle responsible? No. The man who pulled the trigger is. Should the rifle be punished/given credit (situation depending)? No. The person who used the weapon should be. Is the creator of the rifle responsible? No. The person who actually did it is responsible.

 

Geez, try to watch who you call uneducated. :aware:

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And FYI, America did not save the World in WW2. If I had £1 every time I heard an ignorant and uneducated American claim they did, I'd be a multimillionaire.

I hate to be disrespectful, but Russia and England were getting their butts kicked. I'm sorry but it's true. And not to mention how China was fairing against the Japanese... :)

The war wasn't getting very far admittedly. But a large proportion of Americans I've spoken to are under some illusion that they are the saviours of the world, and ended WW2 single handedly.

 

We don't even know if the world needed saving. Even if Germany won, it doesn't mean the world would become a terrible place. And the war would have stopped eventually, America's involvement did bring it about a couple of years sooner, but it definitely would have happened.

 

I read some history book, where it said that the Russians did a lot more than there credited for, as when Germany invaded Russia, they sat it out until the winter, then killed the German's using superior tactics.

I really hope you didn't mean that. Hitler wanted the Slavs, Jews, and Africans eradicated. That's hundreds of millions of people. Also, just a couple of years sooner could have meant the lives of millions more people.

 

Proof?

 

You can't say what could have happened. Sure, it could have been horrible, but on the other hand, it might not have been. We don't know. Hitler might have lost power. We can't say "otherwise the world would be a terrible place" because we don't know if it would have been. Sure, it did look like it wouldn't be to great from the point of view of what we know about Hitler and his plans, but that could have changed, and if they had won, might not have been realised.

 

 

And FYI, America did not save the World in WW2.

 

Sources pl0x. Remember who had the largest industrial production in WWII? Riiight, it wasn't America. Sure it wasn't.

 

And you know who helped design the Spitfire? North American Aviation. The atom bomb? America. The P-51? America. The M1 Garand? America.

 

Geez, try to watch who you call uneducated.

 

Sorry! I forgot! Now let's all worship America! After all, they did save the world single-handedly!

 

Now I have to repeat myself all over again.

 

The world didn't necessarily need saving. WW2 would have ended eventually, sure America brought about the end of the war sooner than expected, and have great help to the Allies, but they did not save the world.

 

The outcome of WW2 was a joint effort between the allies and even if a country had the largest industrial production it doesn't mean it "saved the world".

 

And you know who helped design the Spitfire? North American Aviation. The atom bomb? America. The P-51? America. The M1 Garand? America.

 

Source?

 

North American Aviation did not help design the spitfire. Source. And even if they had, who flew them? The British. Or are you going to take credit for that too?

 

Sure, the creator of the object made the object, but it doesn't mean they take the credit for how it's used.

 

For example, a person shoots another with a rifle. Is the rifle responsible? No. The man who pulled the trigger is. Should the rifle be punished/given credit (situation depending)? No. The person who used the weapon should be. Is the creator of the rifle responsible? No. The person who actually did it is responsible.

 

Geez, try to watch who you call uneducated. :aware:

 

Good point. You sure know your stuff.

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Good point. You sure know your stuff.

 

Are you being sarcastic? :aware:

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Good point. You sure know your stuff.

 

Are you being sarcastic? :aware:

 

No, you made some good points. I didn't know half the stuff that was said.

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Guest cystal flames

why is it allways end o te world stuff? :aware: this is annoying me and nice thread

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