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sciarrone

Marijuana

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And I really don't think ecouraging drug usage by legalizing it is a step in the good direction. 'Harmless' or not, they're drugs.

 

In that case lets ban sugar.

And caffeine! Taurine! Aspirin! Heck, let's ban medicines!

What exactly do drugs as in medicines have to do with drugs for 'pleasure'?

 

Sure, the effect of weed is the same as that of sugar, caffeine, or aspirins, how could I forget? Can anybody please tell me the pros of making drugs legal?

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And I really don't think ecouraging drug usage by legalizing it is a step in the good direction. 'Harmless' or not, they're drugs.

 

In that case lets ban sugar.

And caffeine! Taurine! Aspirin! Heck, let's ban medicines!

What exactly do drugs as in medicines have to do with drugs for 'pleasure'?

 

Sure, the effect of weed is the same as that of sugar, caffeine, or aspirins, how could I forget? Can anybody please tell me the pros of making drugs legal?

 

Read the debate and you'll see a lot.

 

The effect of weed is one in its own but since your saying it should be illegal simply for being a drug then so should all those other things.

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Well, people.

If Marijuana was legalized, we'd have a group of people who can only answer "HUH" and "NUH". Legalizing can only worsen things. Encouraging anti-drug campaigns can make things better.

Really, that is an antiquated argument that makes no sense. I happen to be a semi-regular user of Marijuana and I think that my vocabulary and intelligence is somewhat above average of those of my peers who don't use Marijuana.

The sad thing is, no matter what drug becomes legalized there will always be those who abuse it. Alcohol, aspirin, prescription meds, etc, etc.

And there will always be those who will use it responsibly.

 

That's you.

But where are the others?

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I think bud should not be legalized but decriminalized. This would solve alot of problems.

*Drugs would still be off the street

*No harsh sentances for a victimless crime

*The room in jails/prisons ext would increase

*More money for the state! Look at californa they saved a ton of money after there laws were passed

*There are more but I gotta run to school right now haha be back later.

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I think bud should not be legalized but decriminalized. This would solve alot of problems.

*Drugs would still be off the street

*No harsh sentances for a victimless crime

*The room in jails/prisons ext would increase

*More money for the state! Look at californa they saved a ton of money after there laws were passed

*There are more but I gotta run to school right now haha be back later.

 

 

And this would solve what?

 

Not legalized but decriminalized thats contradictory.

 

Basically they would be able to smoke illegally and not get in trouble for it?

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And I really don't think ecouraging drug usage by legalizing it is a step in the good direction. 'Harmless' or not, they're drugs.

 

In that case lets ban sugar.

And caffeine! Taurine! Aspirin! Heck, let's ban medicines!

What exactly do drugs as in medicines have to do with drugs for 'pleasure'?

 

Sure, the effect of weed is the same as that of sugar, caffeine, or aspirins, how could I forget? Can anybody please tell me the pros of making drugs legal?

 

Read the debate and you'll see a lot.

 

The effect of weed is one in its own but since your saying it should be illegal simply for being a drug then so should all those other things.

Yes indeed.

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Well, people.

If Marijuana was legalized, we'd have a group of people who can only answer "HUH" and "NUH". Legalizing can only worsen things. Encouraging anti-drug campaigns can make things better.

Really, that is an antiquated argument that makes no sense. I happen to be a semi-regular user of Marijuana and I think that my vocabulary and intelligence is somewhat above average of those of my peers who don't use Marijuana.

The sad thing is, no matter what drug becomes legalized there will always be those who abuse it. Alcohol, aspirin, prescription meds, etc, etc.

And there will always be those who will use it responsibly.

 

That's you.

But where are the others?

I can back up his claim by saying I am the same way, I am sure others like Lilshu and Toungy can too; that's just to name a few. Not everyone who smokes Marijuana is a stereotypical 'stoner' with slurred speech and an inability to comprehend, just like everyone who drinks alcohol isn't an abusive alcoholic. Don't generalise.

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I know I have posted here before, but again, the legalization of marijuana would lead to a lot less arrests due to possession, money to be made, and cleaner, safer marijuana. In some cases dealers lace their marijuana with other drugs or put crushed glass in it to make it heavier, thus making more money.

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I know I have posted here before, but again, the legalization of marijuana would lead to a lot less arrests due to possession, money to be made, and cleaner, safer marijuana. In some cases dealers lace their marijuana with other drugs or put crushed glass in it to make it heavier, thus making more money.

We shouldn't forget, marijuana is still a drug, and making it legal will make people think it's okay to deal other, harder, drugs then too. It's only a very small step away, no?

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I know I have posted here before, but again, the legalization of marijuana would lead to a lot less arrests due to possession, money to be made, and cleaner, safer marijuana. In some cases dealers lace their marijuana with other drugs or put crushed glass in it to make it heavier, thus making more money.

We shouldn't forget, marijuana is still a drug, and making it legal will make people think it's okay to deal other, harder, drugs then too. It's only a very small step away, no?

The laws on dealing harder drugs will still remain though, so how would this be encouraging? For example in Australia, you will be charged for possession and will face gaol time if you're caught with:

  • cannabis: 100g or more
  • cannabis resin: 20g or more
  • opioids: 2g or more
  • LSD: 0.002g or more

If you have less than the amount listed, you're required to pay a fine only. These laws will still remain if Marijuana was leagalised, the only difference would be, Marijuana would be excluded. Therefore, if you were to be caught with 'hard' drugs as you've stated, you would be prosecuted just like you would now. So, the distribution of harder drugs will be at the same rate it is now, more or less because it's near impossible to to stop dealing completely, whether Marijuana is legal or not.

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marijuana is for loser who dont have a freakin life >.<

 

Calling people losers with no life because of something they occasionally do for fun is for angry and not nice people. :cool:

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I know I have posted here before, but again, the legalization of marijuana would lead to a lot less arrests due to possession, money to be made, and cleaner, safer marijuana. In some cases dealers lace their marijuana with other drugs or put crushed glass in it to make it heavier, thus making more money.

We shouldn't forget, marijuana is still a drug, and making it legal will make people think it's okay to deal other, harder, drugs then too. It's only a very small step away, no?

The laws on dealing harder drugs will still remain though, so how would this be encouraging? For example in Australia, you will be charged for possession and will face gaol time if you're caught with:

  • cannabis: 100g or more
  • cannabis resin: 20g or more
  • opioids: 2g or more
  • LSD: 0.002g or more

If you have less than the amount listed, you're required to pay a fine only. These laws will still remain if Marijuana was leagalised, the only difference would be, Marijuana would be excluded. Therefore, if you were to be caught with 'hard' drugs as you've stated, you would be prosecuted just like you would now. So, the distribution of harder drugs will be at the same rate it is now, more or less because it's near impossible to to stop dealing completely, whether Marijuana is legal or not.

0.002 grams of LSD might sound extremely little, but it's actually 2 milligrams (2000 micrograms), which is about 70-80 times LSD's threshold value. (The amount of LSD required to have noticeable effects) Also note: A regular dose of LSD is about 100 micrograms, although most beginners take half a blotter, there is very little technical difference. LSD's threshold value of 25 micrograms is enough to trigger the very intense trip the drug is known for. The difference in effect is all psychological, because you expect a different effect from the drug in different doses.

 

Just thought I'd note.

Edited by Toungy

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marijuana is for loser who dont have a freakin life >.<

Quite the contrary.

 

 

Anyways, marijuana is actually safer than tobacco and alcohol, and both of those are legal. Marijuana has none of the violent side-effects that alcohol can have, so I would rather someone get high off pot than get drunk. I think marijuana should be legalized.

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In a way, it should. The situation for drugs may be better if they don't outlaw it. If they do, people are gonna want it more than if it's legal.

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In a way, it should. The situation for drugs may be better if they don't outlaw it. If they do, people are gonna want it more than if it's legal.
Right, and your contribution is, of course, factual, instead of parrotting what is told by ignorant people. You actually believe the mere fact something is illegal has the effect of more people wanting it? In that case we should get rid of speed limits and, presto, people would drive at a more moderate speed.

 

A few people have mentioned alcohol, tobacco and a few other, legalised, drugs. There are those who mention dreadful bars where people are intoxicated all of the time. There are those who speak with the voice of experience when commenting on bars, alcohol, cannabis and the like. Of all the people reacting in this thread (with a declared birthday in their profile) only seven would be able to enter a bar legally in the Netherlands. For seven more it would be possible to buy cannabis 'legally' (contrary to what Toungy said: Cannabis in the Netherlands still is illegal, it just is 'allowed' within certain guidelines).

 

At the end of the day the facts are pretty obvious: Cannabis is NOT addictive, has a few medicinal properties (mostly pain management) and is illegal in most countries. Alcohol and tobacco are readily available in close to every country in this world: Both are addictive, have no medicinal properties, have a detrimental effect on the health of those (over)using it.

 

From the healthcare point of view it should be pretty easy: Allow cannabis, forbid alcohol and tobacco. Since it will be nigh to impossible to outlaw alcohol and tobacco, I do favour the legalisation of cannabis. Maybe people would switch, smoke a joint after work instead of a whiskey and a sigarette. Ah well. Like Toungy I live in the Netherlands, what do I care, I can get it right around the corner.

 

--Simple--

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In a way, it should. The situation for drugs may be better if they don't outlaw it. If they do, people are gonna want it more than if it's legal.
Right, and your contribution is, of course, factual, instead of parrotting what is told by ignorant people. You actually believe the mere fact something is illegal has the effect of more people wanting it? In that case we should get rid of speed limits and, presto, people would drive at a more moderate speed.

 

A few people have mentioned alcohol, tobacco and a few other, legalised, drugs. There are those who mention dreadful bars where people are intoxicated all of the time. There are those who speak with the voice of experience when commenting on bars, alcohol, cannabis and the like. Of all the people reacting in this thread (with a declared birthday in their profile) only seven would be able to enter a bar legally in the Netherlands. For seven more it would be possible to buy cannabis 'legally' (contrary to what Toungy said: Cannabis in the Netherlands still is illegal, it just is 'allowed' within certain guidelines).

 

At the end of the day the facts are pretty obvious: Cannabis is NOT addictive, has a few medicinal properties (mostly pain management) and is illegal in most countries. Alcohol and tobacco are readily available in close to every country in this world: Both are addictive, have no medicinal properties, have a detrimental effect on the health of those (over)using it.

 

From the healthcare point of view it should be pretty easy: Allow cannabis, forbid alcohol and tobacco. Since it will be nigh to impossible to outlaw alcohol and tobacco, I do favour the legalisation of cannabis. Maybe people would switch, smoke a joint after work instead of a whiskey and a sigarette. Ah well. Like Toungy I live in the Netherlands, what do I care, I can get it right around the corner.

 

--Simple--

To clear up on the legal state of various drugs...

 

The legal state of marijuana and psychedelic mushrooms varies per province and city in the Netherlands, if you want to be precise. Both drugs fall under the opium law (even though they are not opiate drugs), which states that possession of the two drugs is illegal. While psychedelic mushrooms are normally not allowed by cities, there are exceptions such as in Amsterdam where it is allowed to sell and buy the mushrooms. When I say "Marijuana is legal here", I mean you will not get into legal trouble for possession of the substance. However, may you be caught dealing the drug or possessing large doses (>5 grams on the street or >30 grams at home, upon suspicion of dealing the drug you might get checked on how many you carry around), you can be arrested with all the legal penalties due. There is no difference in legal situation between minors (< 18) and adults. But marijuana is only condoned for adults.

 

Seeds for marijuana plants are sold illegally, but it is also condoned. Psilocybin mushroom spores are sold legally. Possession of spores and growth is also legal. Possession of the end product (the mushroom) is also legal, as long as it is not dried. Once dried, the mushroom is no longer considered a naturally occurring fungi, but instead a drug by the opium law and is not legal to possess. Psilocybin mushrooms must be dried before consumption in order to have psychedelic effects.

 

So what does this mean for drug users?

Marijuana: Possession of the drug, selling the drug, buying the drug and using the drug without a medical prescription is illegal. But, no legal action will be taken by law enforcers as long as you:

- ... carry < 5 grams of marijuana (about half a full bag) with you in public or 30 grams in private, per person. So if you're smoking with three people, you can have up to 15 grams of pure usable marijuana with you, in any of its forms (so weed [buds] or hashish [oil, paste]). If put into foods, only the weight of the active ingredient is measured, as opposed to the entire food object.

- ... do not sell the marijuana publicly. Selling marijuana is allowed between friends and relatives and in private circles. Selling marijuana to people on the street or in high amounts is not allowed and will result in legal action if you're caught.

A coffeeshop (a store where you can buy weed in Holland) is the only kind of store that is allowed to sell marijuana outside of private circles. So neither Smartshops (a kind of shop where you can buy accessories, smoking gear, mushrooms, herbs, other legal psychoactives, etc.) nor Growshops (shops where you can buy items for growing plants and mushrooms, namely cannabis, poppy plants1, psychedelic mushrooms, Morning Glory2, Salvia Divinorum3, etc.) can sell usable forms of marijuana. They can, however, illegally sell marijuana seeds and legally sell Morning Glory seeds and Psilocybin mushroom spores. Smartshops and Growshops are allowed to sell marijuana seeds to adults. Although the amount of usable marijuana harvested from a single plant easily exceeds the condoned 30 grams (up to 600 grams a plant is possible under the right conditions), legal action will not be taken for owning such amounts.

 

1: The poppy plant is the natural source of opiates (in the form of opium) and because of that a natural source of morphine, which is also the primary alkaloid in the heroin production process. Owning most opiates or harvesting opium from poppy plants is illegal (unless used/produced medically) and only some more common breeds of the plant are legal to own and grow.

2: Morning glory is a common garden plant (pictures here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_glory) of which the seeds contain LSA, a hallucinogenic alkaloid chemically similar to LSD, used rarely as a medicine and much more commonly as a psychoactive drug. The plant can be grown legally and possession of Morning Glory seeds is legal in all countries. Consumption of Morning Glory seeds (amount and methods depend on the kind of Morning Glory) produces intense psychedelic effects extremely similar to when one would use LSD.

3: Salvia Divinorum is one of the few legal hallucinogenic plants in the world. It is not legal globally and has been banned in a few USA states and other countries, but the plant is legal in most parts of the world. The primary active component of Salvia Divinorum is Salvinorin A, the most potent hallucinogen known to man. The leaves of the plant are dried and then chewed on or smoked. When chewed, the active components are absorbed into the blood stream via one's saliva and not by ingestion, so the leaves are not swallowed after chewing. Despite being the most potent hallucinogen, the effects of Salvinorin A are only active for mere minutes. Reports have shown that the peak of Salvia ("the trip" [experience] or "tripping" [general term for being under the influence of a hallucinogenic drug]) can last from just one to five minutes, which coupled with its common legality made it a popular hallucinogenic drug. Although users report that the effects are not pleasant and only a very small percentage of the people who try Salvia actually use the drug regularly or even more than once. Possession, growth, usage and selling of the Salvia plant, its psychoactive components and the plant's seeds is completely legal in Holland and most USA states.

 

LSA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergine

Morning Glory plant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_glory

Salvia Divinorum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum

Salvinorin A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvinorin_A

Edited by Toungy

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i think drugs should always stay illegal because thousands will die everyday cuz of these and the Worlds populations will slowly decline

 

No one has died directly from smoking marijuana, It's impossible to overdose. A person who has smoked marijuana is expected to live the same as a person who hasn't, because most marijuana users don't continue using for their whole life. An average user smokes one pot joint a day, where as tobacco user's smoke many more. The chance of a heart attack is increased in the hour after getting intoxicated, but only 1/5 of 1% heart attacks are caused this way.

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i think drugs should always stay illegal because thousands will die everyday cuz of these and the Worlds populations will slowly decline

The birth rate is so high that with heart disease, cancer, AIDS, Malaria, etc., we are still increasing our population at a frightening rate.

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Also, for these arguments like 'alcohol has worse effects etc'.

 

Well, we have enough legal trash already. Let's add more?

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Also, for these arguments like 'alcohol has worse effects etc'.

 

Well, we have enough legal trash already. Let's add more?

How is that a plausible reason for making it illegal though, because there is already enough for the law to deal with? Something should be illegal on fair grounds and not because the police to not want to start monitoring driving under the influence of Marijuana as well as alcohol, or because creating new laws is too much effort. Either ban alcohol and tobacco also, or allow marijuana because we've already agreed that the effects are more or less the same, the point being, it's not worse it terms of long and short term side effects.

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I go with making it illegal on the grounds of public health. Just like LSD and Cocaine is illegal due to physical, social and mental damage, so to should marijuanna.

 

Then again, this is coming from a person who thinks tabacco should be banned and alchohol under tighter control worldwide. (Somewhat like wt Pixel said above me.) I think if we are going to ban marijanna on the grounds that it poses a health risk then tabacco should also face the same faith and alchohol kept under moderation. That's to stop us looking hypocritical.

Edited by Phoenix Rider

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Weed should be legalized. Yeah, its not good for you, but isn't alcohol worse?

I wouldn't say it was worse, they both alter ones perception of reality if consumed in excess and can cause a negative reaction socially while under the influence of the substance. However, if you're going to make one legal, you might as well make the other too.

Bearing in mind that if alcohol was introduced in this day and age, it would certainly be illegal.

Alcohol probably wouldn't even be used as a drug, since pure ethanol is lethal in even very small doses.

E100?

 

I call that corn oil, I don't know about you. I believe you have methanol in mind.

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