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Zamma

Are People Born Gay?

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Going back to this quote...

 

but i cant see how this is propergated genticly, smae gender marrige kinda ends up with no offspring.

Are you talking about natural selection?

 

I'm not sure if you are born gay or not... What I do know is that I just CAN'T see how its their choice.

 

 

I've asked a couple gay friends of mine if they 'chose' to be homosexual, both said no. Saying that if they had the choice, they would be straight.

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Going back to this quote...

 

but i cant see how this is propergated genticly, smae gender marrige kinda ends up with no offspring.

Are you talking about natural selection?

 

I'm not sure if you are born gay or not... What I do know is that I just CAN'T see how its their choice.

 

 

I've asked a couple gay friends of mine if they 'chose' to be homosexual, both said no. Saying that if they had the choice, they would be straight.

i was just saying how it is not genetic becasue it has almost no way to spread that way; a gay, together, can't produce a child. but i do say it is involontary becasue it's casued to the person by his envoirment.

Edited by Bongo Baggins

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There is nothing stopping a homosexual mating with the other gender.

A gay man would be limp as a noodle, so that wouldn't really work out.

And a lesbian woman would definitely not do it. Though they are very likely to take sperm donated by a gay guy.

Edited by Superkid711

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No, probably not, most likely a choice.

So by that logic I could chose to be gay right now... Right?

 

:wub:

 

Why would a person want to be gay? ^_^

 

why not? ask a person who wants to be gay, (who is not me.)

 

ok so i think people want to be gay because they probably found a really nice guy and they both develop a relationship (the same way you do

with the other gender, it's not like you cant develop a more intimate relationship if you guys are the same sex, since guys probably would be more close

to each other because they think the same way), im not saying like its easy to become gay it's just that sometimes you find out that you really like a person

whom is your sex and somehow he/she thinks the same way...

 

that's why i've said you cant deny love but you can deny gay marriage because it's not saying that being gay is wrong it's just saying that there are certain

things that needs to be fixed BEFORE huge problems occur, that leads to problems for married gay people.

Edited by storm2007

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No, probably not, most likely a choice.

So by that logic I could chose to be gay right now... Right?

 

:wub:

 

Why would a person want to be gay? ^_^

 

why not? ask a person who wants to be gay, (who is not me.)

And thats my point. I don't think there are many people that want to be gay, due to the enormous amount of negativity people have for it. By the way, I am NOT against homosexuality

 

ok so i think people want to be gay because they probably found a really nice guy and they both develop a relationship

Thats what is known as friendship. I really like my best friend, we've known each other for years, however I am not attracted to him(the same way you do

with the other gender, it's not like you cant develop a more intimate relationship if you guys are the same sex, since guys probably would be more close

to each other because they think the same way), im not saying like its easy to become gay it's just that sometimes you find out that you really like a person

 

whom is your sex and somehow he/she thinks the same way...Again, that can be classified as friendship.

There is a difference between 'really liking a guy' and being attracted to him. Likewise, a gay guy can really like a girl, but not be attracted to her.

 

that's why i've said you cant deny love but you can deny gay marriage because it's not saying that being gay is wrong it's just saying that there are certain

things that needs to be fixed BEFORE huge problems occur, that leads to problems for married gay people.

What things need to be fixed? I'd really like to know...

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No. Later in life you are influenced and you change your lifestyle, which would make you gay. It's impossible to be actually born gay because you probably won't even hear the word until you're at least 10. :wub:

How would you be influence to be gay? If you haven't noticed, this world is pretty heterosexual-minded (I don't know if that makes sense ^_^). Many movies, books, and music all talk about heterosexual relationships. How many songs have ou heard about a lesbian couple? How mnay movies haven you seen with two gay men?

 

In short, how can someone be influence to be gay with all this straightness influencing him otherwise?

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No. Later in life you are influenced and you change your lifestyle, which would make you gay. It's impossible to be actually born gay because you probably won't even hear the word until you're at least 10. :wub:

How would you be influence to be gay? If you haven't noticed, this world is pretty heterosexual-minded (I don't know if that makes sense ^_^). Many movies, books, and music all talk about heterosexual relationships. How many songs have ou heard about a lesbian couple? How mnay movies haven you seen with two gay men?

 

In short, how can someone be influence to be gay with all this straightness influencing him otherwise?

Lord Awesome I direct your attention to my post on the first page, which answers that question in detail.

I simply present the example of Ancient Greece yet again. A society wherein homosexual behavior is accepted and promulgated. Thus making a split between those who are possibly "biologically" "born" Gay, and those influenced by their society to "become" or "choosing to become" Gay. (What we have in Ancient Greece is the example that Homosexuality can be culturally influenced, it is as close to an empirical test as we shall get)

Even if (as you maintain) that our culture is predominantly centered on the heterosexual lifestyle, there is still plenty of mainstream pop culture for Homosexuals or influenced by it(both positively and negatively).(Listing all of it, would be a waste of time). It is particularly true of an "entity" that if it is repressed or regarded with fear and disdain, that someone will logically pick it up and run with it, merely for the reason that it is taboo.(An idea I'm sure upsets many Homosexuals)

I make a hard case for personal freedom here, because that is what is at stake. I don't want people to feel as if they are born or pre-destined a certain way(albeit in some cases for homosexuality this is true). And this pre-destination holds true for both Nature and Nurture(a crude phrase but it does the trick). One is not "born" gay one "becomes" gay, realizing potential and possibilities. One can "choose to become Gay", choosing just to adopt the Being of Homosexuality as a trend, a fashion, a thing, a commodity. And there is the slight possibility of biological determinism of being "born" gay.(As hard as that is for me to accept)

It's not even so much what the prevailing culture pumps out. The matter of fact statement is that there is a plethora of underground Gay culture that has only recently seen the light of day in the mainstream. Regardless, wherever we have a "theses" there will always be an "antithesis". As such I do not think Homosexuality will ever disappear.

Edited by jack-nicholson

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A common question Zamma, and a commonly questioned one.

 

Lets progress the question further, can one be born a murder, drug addict, sex addict?

 

Maybe you feel that isn't that same, depends on your religious belief mostly.

 

My secular opinion is that being gay is something you become by the actions you have taken. One may become gay by having a perverted experience, or many perverted wrong experiences, often being gay is an act of confusion, or bad experience with being straight (like being cheated on by the opposite sex)

 

Yes homosexuality is a long lasting thing people have done for ages, but it comes from the same outcome.

 

One last thing which makes you gay is that you mistake a close friendship with the opposite gender, as that more sexual relationship.

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Tell me, why would one chose to be a homosexual if people point fingers at you all the time, and religious extremists want to burn down your house.

 

Tell me, what sane person would ever make that choice?

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Tell me, why would one chose to be a homosexual if people point fingers at you all the time, and religious extremists want to burn down your house.

 

Tell me, what sane person would ever make that choice?

While I'm still thinking there's a "nature" component to homosexuality(hell, it might just be a totally random genetic structure that evolution uses for population control... there's homosexuality in animals too.) the topic isn't about choice. It is simply asking if people are born gay.

 

Even if it is environmental and not inborn, it's still not voluntary. Not a choice. At least not a conscious one.

Edited by Superkid711

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No. It's called a sub concious choice dictated by many social factors. (I am not however saying gay is a choice, its all very subconcious)

Edited by Celtic

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I've always been of the opinion that people are born with their sexuality already decided, and it would there throughout there lives, whether they acknowledge it or not. In a way, someone could "choose" to be gay if they thought they would rather be that than a Hetero, and feelings toward the opposite sex would be ignored in favor of this assumed characteristic. Likewise, someone who would naturally be gay could decide that they're hetero, and ignore feelings toward the same sex. This would explain why the percentage of homosexuals doesn't stay constant. Of course, another possibility could be that homosexuality is nature's way of population control, when plagues and predators haven't worked.

 

 

 

I'm not forcing any of this as fact, it's simply my opinion. In all honesty, the idea of a sexuality other than bisexuality has always confused me. Why does it matter which organs someone's got if you can love everything else about them? ^_^

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~CQ :wub:

Edited by Cow Queen

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Personally I feel people try and pass gay people off as they're homophobic. They blame the fact they're gay on them, where as if it was a natural occurrence, this could not be done.

 

I think you're born gay. You can't choose to be straight, it's not like when you're 7320.433 days old you get a choice, so why can you choose to be gay?

 

I feel all our choices etc. are built off previous experiences etc. and being gay seems the natural path for you body to take, based upon the resources it has at the time...

 

No. Later in life you are influenced and you change your lifestyle, which would make you gay. It's impossible to be actually born gay because you probably won't even hear the word until you're at least 10.

 

This brings me on to my next point... People all over the world, from tiny African Islands, to the most "civilized" of the Western World, have a natural instinct to God, and the same is with gay people. If you are a cave man, for example, it's unlikely that you would know how to communicate the fact you're gay, yet it doesn't mean there are no gay cave men :wub: Who did the first gay person hear the word from?

 

Tell me, why would one chose to be a homosexual if people point fingers at you all the time, and religious extremists want to burn down your house.

 

Tell me, what sane person would ever make that choice?

 

Whilst I am completely on your side, I have to address this.. They may just feel that they are not right with their current interest in the opposite sex, made worse by peer pressure, and wish to see if being gay would make them happier? Although you could argue that they were born gay yet didn't realize it, that's a different matter.

 

~Magical

Edited by Magical

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I dont think so its all down to influence tbh.

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I suppose outside influence can change the shape of the brain as it grows. As I posted before, it has been confirmed that homosexuals have different brain structures.

the outside forces can olny change the way your brain fires off certain signals. it is not going to shape the actual shape. as i said before i have my doubts about that reaserch (maybe i should read the artical hehehehe).

 

actually the brain is always developing so that is a possiblity.

Edited by Bongo Baggins

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i think it is just a choice you make

not programmed into your brain

it could be a choice you make...but in our society, where being gay is looked down on, who would want to choose that?

for most it's an involuntary impulse based on the way their surroundings affected them.

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i think it is just a choice you make

not programmed into your brain

it could be a choice you make...but in our society, where being gay is looked down on, who would want to choose that?

for most it's an involuntary impulse based on the way their surroundings affected them.

 

maybe somebody can ignore all those remarks

 

but you are right

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I suppose outside influence can change the shape of the brain as it grows. As I posted before, it has been confirmed that homosexuals have different brain structures.

the outside forces can olny change the way your brain fires off certain signals. it is not going to shape the actual shape. as i said before i have my doubts about that reaserch (maybe i should read the artical hehehehe).

 

actually the brain is always developing so that is a possiblity.

That's what I meant. If it is truly environmental, then it is done while the brain is still growing. While the person is still young. (VERY young. Much earlier than puberty-age.)

 

But on the other hand, most of the people who have supposedly become gay through the cirumstances many people think make people gay were, in fact, simply confused. Sexual confused people are not gay, they only think they are. Indeed, that's quite common in high school. So those elements alone cannot cause it, there's something much earlier in life that factors in... again, assuming it is a product of environment.

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But on the other hand, most of the people who have supposedly become gay through the cirumstances many people think make people gay were, in fact, simply confused. Sexual confused people are not gay, they only think they are. Indeed, that's quite common in high school. So those elements alone cannot cause it, there's something much earlier in life that factors in... again, assuming it is a product of environment.

 

But! These "sexual confusions" can become permanent! Thus proving that environment can have an impact on a persons sexuality. And if something is acted or forced upon us by external stimuli that gives us the option of also casting it aside in place of our own values, or different values. People who grow up Christian might grow up to reject it, and another child might be devout his whole life. I believe the same can hold true for sexuality. I can access modes of being, I can become aware of them and don them as my own.

And even if as you say that "sexually confused people are not gay, they only think they are" does that make a difference? I may not act in accordance with the principles of Christianity, but I can still believe I am one, and so can all the others around me as well. I do not think that a person is born with a predetermined "essence", that is up to society and ourselves to shape. Even though I hate to admit yet again, biological determinism is possible, there are other avenues one might go through in "being gay" or "becoming gay".

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Not because homosexuality was unacceptable the time the bible was written, doesn't mean it still is. Don't tell me the heaven doesn't evolve and stays medieval forever.

 

Thats opinion, but to my belief there is no sound proof other than speculation that you can be born with gay DNA or something like that.

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But on the other hand, most of the people who have supposedly become gay through the cirumstances many people think make people gay were, in fact, simply confused. Sexual confused people are not gay, they only think they are. Indeed, that's quite common in high school. So those elements alone cannot cause it, there's something much earlier in life that factors in... again, assuming it is a product of environment.

 

But! These "sexual confusions" can become permanent! Thus proving that environment can have an impact on a persons sexuality. And if something is acted or forced upon us by external stimuli that gives us the option of also casting it aside in place of our own values, or different values. People who grow up Christian might grow up to reject it, and another child might be devout his whole life. I believe the same can hold true for sexuality. I can access modes of being, I can become aware of them and don them as my own.

And even if as you say that "sexually confused people are not gay, they only think they are" does that make a difference? I may not act in accordance with the principles of Christianity, but I can still believe I am one, and so can all the others around me as well. I do not think that a person is born with a predetermined "essence", that is up to society and ourselves to shape. Even though I hate to admit yet again, biological determinism is possible, there are other avenues one might go through in "being gay" or "becoming gay".

From what I gather these confusions do not typically last, because the sexually confused person ultimately fails to feel natural with the same sex in the long run. They're less satisfied and more depressed.

 

You say you can access modes of being. Not everybody has such control of themselves you know... hardly anybody...

I do think there are several predetermined and prepackaged aspects of ourselves that come from nature. Including certain base emotions and sexuality. However, everything that really matters is indeed up to experience.

 

But you're right, I believe, in that there is probably more than one cause. It could be both biological and/or environmental. I still stick to the "hormone conditions in the womb" theory.

 

However, we must remember that it is never voluntary. Nobody would chose this.

Edited by Superkid711

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However, we must remember that it is never voluntary. Nobody would chose this.

I agree with the rest of what you wrote, but this point I disagree with vehemently! Culture, that which is forced upon us, shoved down our throats, and it is what we either accept or reject! As such! If a culture does feature predominantly Homosexual culture and attitudes (i.e. Ancient Greece or Rome) that would encourage people to try or experiment with homosexuality. People can fool themselves into thinking something that they are not. That is common knowledge. Fashions come and go, I think that Homosexuality can be just like a fashion, or popular.

And also! If Homosexuality is repressed, scorned, frowned upon and made taboo. Then yet again we will have an underground of individuals who want "to be" Homosexual simply because it is taboo.(And possibly encouraged by the biologically determined homosexuals as well).

If I can choose to be a member of a radical Communist Left Wing Party that preaches against everything the United States stands for. If I can adopt that mode of being and thinking, and adopt that outlook on life. So to can I also adopt a Homosexual lifestyle if I so chose!

Man is freedom, his life is freedom of action and choice in the world. Yes, we are thrown into "conditions of existence", that which prevents certain avenues and roads of freedom. But there are always a plethora of actions available to us.

I will never deny the freedom that is inherent in each person, to do so would be nihilism.

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