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robber341

Proof Of God

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Well... I'm really an agnostic, in the same sense Richard Dawkins is agnostic, though.

So, I'll try to put out my views.

Religion in general, not just the great religions we have here and now, were created or invented to answer to some "unanswerable" questions. Some have become answered, and since then most of the gods that answered these questions also disappeared (because we know the way lightning works now, we know it's ridiculous to think Zeus is up there throwing them at us). The ones that remain now are the ones to answer more deep, hard questions like how the universe was created and so on. Gods are just an answer, whose veracity can be doubted, to all these everyday questions. Deities have also been created, sometimes by some civilizations' elites, to make the people answer to many sets of moral rules. Thus, these deities become the big surveillance camera up in heaven, whose law (which tends to lead sometimes to the elites' will) should be always respected. They also are something that people can always cling to, sometimes to pray for a good harvest, sometimes to pray for your liver cancer to disappear. This is how I see religion, and this is why I think it exists... This is not directed to any religion in general, I'm basing myself on Yahweh/Jehovah or Allah as much as I'm basing myself on Thor or Athena.

 

I'd rather base my answers on, and cling onto, solid evidence, which can come in many forms.

 

By the way, ttttt, that quote you got is also from Richard Dawkins. You should read his book, "the God Delusion". In fact, I think everyone, atheist, agnostic, christian, muslim, etc... should read it with an open mind.

Edited by Jose0

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This is the debate room, you have to argue to support what you say...

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Never say god is not real

Okay. Is there some unspoken rule that you HAVE to act like a noob if you are a new member? I know that you're all going to say, "Of COURSE they act like noobs" but come on, the internet has existed for 20 years, more or less, and people also argue in real life.

 

Wait! I have a theory!

 

The internet has an effect of decreasing one's intelligence. Us experienced users must have built up a tolerance to it.

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Never say god is not real

What do you have to back your opinion on the matter of God being real? I would say if the topic wasnt what it is and someone says that god is not real for whatever reason that "might" be appropriate but this is the whole debate.

 

When thinking of this topic you must think of the beggining of the world. Many believe in the Creation story and the Christian/Jewish side of this, and also many believe in assorted beliefs such as the big bang theory and other scientific claims to creation. What you have to look at is whether or not the theory has a backbone or something to hold it all up. The main backbone to all of these theories is what made these certain events happen. Many people do not look at it this way and only the historical/scientific parts of the equation. Why do people do this? Because noone can provide any concrete evidence that will prove either side based on the creation of the world.

Edited by Big Brother

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The topic title says "Proof of God". I feel like many people have failed to realize this.

 

So, to settle the debate,

 

There is no proof of God. I'm not arguing whether that's a valid reason to worship him or not, but there is no proof of God.

 

Thank you.

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I agree...

We can't say he doesn't exist, we can't say he does either.

We can, however, talk about probability. And I think it's quite improbable he does exist.

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Personally, in my opinion its not so much of God is real. Its more of just people want something to believe in to take their minds off of things.

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The topic title says "Proof of God". I feel like many people have failed to realize this.

 

So, to settle the debate,

 

There is no proof of God. I'm not arguing whether that's a valid reason to worship him or not, but there is no proof of God.

 

Thank you.

How dare you try to settle a debate!

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OMG PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Listen you only got ONE and i mean ONE life........DO NOT freak out about how we got here or a supreme being just LIVE YOUR DAMN LIFE TO IT FULLEST!!! do not stress over all this god stuff or whatever...BECAUSE YOU WILL NEVER KNOW!! LOL

 

DIP

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Ugh... Guys, learn to debate please =/

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This debate is pretty much over IMO.

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I don't really feel like reading 57 pages, so I'll just throw my opinion on god and organized religion out there.

 

I forget where I read this, but it goes something along the lines of "We're both Atheists, I just believe in one less god than you, tell me why you dismiss all gods other than your own and I'll tell you why I dismiss yours".

 

I strongly disagree with the concept of a traditional god presented by modern religions, but god in some other form, I really don't know. All I'm really certain of is that the idea of someone creating this universe specificaly for humans is bred from arrogance, fear and a desire for purpose. Not from logic or truth.

 

Most likely Dani's signature.

 

------------------

 

This debate is pretty much done, as finally people realize that whether or not there is God (I believe there is), there is no solid proof. Religion can't be counted as proof because that is belief.

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Precisely, but you're losing the point. I pretty much have Dawkin's point of view, so I'll resume it.

The existence of a God cannot, YET, be proved or unproved, but it is quite improbable. Additionally, religion is a delusional belief that can actually be harmful to society and humanity. That could keep the debate alive!

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Why isn't the world perfect? Sin.

 

 

God intended the world to be perfect. It says in the Bible God created the world in 7 days. He created Adam and Eve and gave them his whole creation, a perfect world, with one rule. The rule was to obey God and to not eat from one tree in the Garden of Eden. Then a devilish, terrible serpent named Satan tempted Adam and Eve with sin. Satan told them that the only reason God didnt want them to eat from the tree is because the fruit would make them like Him and know good and evil. That is not true. Satan lied to them, and Eve ate from the tree and gave her husband some. They disobeyed God, and He punished them. That was the start of sin and the 'Fall'.

 

See, the world was perfect until sin came. They had a choice to obey God or sin, and they chose to sin, basically ruining the world. God's punishment was death. In the beginning, humans were supposed to be immortal. In earlier times, people like Noah lived 700-1000 years. Now the average life expectancy is nowhere near that number. It also says in the Bible that God grieves in his heart every time we sin. We hurt him so much all the time, and we think so little of it. He sent his one and only son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. He loves us so much even though we hurt him. It says if you believe God's son Jesus died on the cross for us, you will go to heaven.

 

Anyways, the reason the world isnt perfect is because of us. Sin. Our own fault for making the world bad. God punished us and we deserve it.

Edited by Goat

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Hey guys let's stop posting so this last post can become more than 7 days and some new member can post here and get this shizzle closed.

 

The debate's pretty much over.

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See, the world was perfect until sin came. They had a choice to obey God or sin, and they chose to sin, basically ruining the world. God's punishment was death. In the beginning, humans were supposed to be immortal. In earlier times, people like Noah lived 700-1000 years. Now the average life expectancy is nowhere near that number. It also says in the Bible that God grieves in his heart every time we sin. We hurt him so much all the time, and we think so little of it. He sent his one and only son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. He loves us so much even though we hurt him. It says if you believe God's son Jesus died on the cross for us, you will go to heaven.

 

As i've said something that is truly perfect cannot be made unperfect otherwise it was never perfect to begin with. Therefore Adam and Eve shouldn't have been able to turn the supposed perfect world paradise thing imperfect unless it was imperfect to begin with. However god is supposedly Omnipotent and infallible so he wouldn't have created such an imperfect world unless.

1) He's cruel like satan so why should we even consider and praise him as god.

2) He doesn't exist (atleast not a jeudo-christian god)

 

 

Hey guys let's stop posting so this last post can become more than 7 days and some new member can post here and get this shizzle closed.

 

The debate's pretty much over.

 

58 Pages and this topic has plenty of room for revival tbh. Somebodies gonna post the exact same topic in a few months if this one dies so we might as well just keep going with this one?

Edited by Meidou

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As i've said something that is truly perfect cannot be made unperfect otherwise it was never perfect to begin with. Therefore Adam and Eve shouldn't have been able to turn the supposed perfect world paradise thing imperfect unless it was imperfect to begin with. However god is supposedly Omnipotent and infallible so he wouldn't have created such an imperfect world unless.

1) He's cruel like satan so why should we even consider and praise him as god.

2) He doesn't exist (atleast not a jeudo-christian god)

 

I see your point... but what made it not perfect? Besides that it could be ruined by a choice. We didn't have to make that choice but we did. Anyways, I'd just like to hear the other reasons it wasn't perfect.

Edited by Goat

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I see your point... but what made it not perfect? Besides that it could be ruined by a choice. We didn't have to make that choice but we did. Anyways, I'd just like to hear the other reasons it wasn't perfect.

 

It only takes one imperfection to make something imperfect. Choosing to make something imperfect still makes it imperfect and therefore makes god fallible which makes god imperfect and basically makes the biblical god a person or sentient being with some nifty tricks not a god and the bible tells me not to worship false idols (aka non-gods?) so thats what i plan to do.

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Why isn't the world perfect? Sin.

 

 

God intended the world to be perfect. It says in the Bible God created the world in 7 days. He created Adam and Eve and gave them his whole creation, a perfect world, with one rule. The rule was to obey God and to not eat from one tree in the Garden of Eden. Then a devilish, terrible serpent named Satan tempted Adam and Eve with sin. Satan told them that the only reason God didnt want them to eat from the tree is because the fruit would make them like Him and know good and evil. That is not true. Satan lied to them, and Eve ate from the tree and gave her husband some. They disobeyed God, and He punished them. That was the start of sin and the 'Fall'.

 

See, the world was perfect until sin came. They had a choice to obey God or sin, and they chose to sin, basically ruining the world. God's punishment was death. In the beginning, humans were supposed to be immortal. In earlier times, people like Noah lived 700-1000 years. Now the average life expectancy is nowhere near that number. It also says in the Bible that God grieves in his heart every time we sin. We hurt him so much all the time, and we think so little of it. He sent his one and only son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. He loves us so much even though we hurt him. It says if you believe God's son Jesus died on the cross for us, you will go to heaven.

 

Anyways, the reason the world isnt perfect is because of us. Sin. Our own fault for making the world bad. God punished us and we deserve it.

Oh, so because some insignificants beings ate some fruit, the plans of an omnipotent being, who wanted the world to be perfect, were brought down? Doesn't sound omnipotent to me! And we are all guilty of that? That is a ridiculous argument.

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See, the world was perfect until sin came. They had a choice to obey God or sin, and they chose to sin, basically ruining the world. God's punishment was death. In the beginning, humans were supposed to be immortal. In earlier times, people like Noah lived 700-1000 years. Now the average life expectancy is nowhere near that number. It also says in the Bible that God grieves in his heart every time we sin. We hurt him so much all the time, and we think so little of it. He sent his one and only son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. He loves us so much even though we hurt him. It says if you believe God's son Jesus died on the cross for us, you will go to heaven.

If God is really omnipotent, and the world was really 'perfect', there would have never been such thing as sin, seeing the perfection of the world and God would not allow that.

 

Conclusion -> God is not omnipotent? What are you saying there? Two humans are more powerful than God because they 'created' sin in a perfect world?

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No, I dont imply that. He sajd God intended the world to be perfect, and somehow two humans managed to disrrupt his plans. If I were omnipotent, my plans wouldn't be fallible, much less as easy to be brought down by mere humans as is eating an apple.

Edited by Jose0

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See, the world was perfect until sin came. They had a choice to obey God or sin, and they chose to sin, basically ruining the world. God's punishment was death. In the beginning, humans were supposed to be immortal. In earlier times, people like Noah lived 700-1000 years. Now the average life expectancy is nowhere near that number. It also says in the Bible that God grieves in his heart every time we sin. We hurt him so much all the time, and we think so little of it. He sent his one and only son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. He loves us so much even though we hurt him. It says if you believe God's son Jesus died on the cross for us, you will go to heaven.

 

Anyways, the reason the world isnt perfect is because of us. Sin. Our own fault for making the world bad. God punished us and we deserve it.

We never had a choice. The moment we are born we are sinners. Original sin, just for being born we are cursed an eternal fate we can never escape. G-d shackled our fate unto us, doomed as Sisyphus, to forever trudge uphill carrying our sin. If G-d grieves every time we sin, then He must grieve over every birth of a child, for that is one more sinner unto this world.

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God created the big bang so he set everything in motion and made everything.Therefore, evolution was created by God so, that makes evolution not a valid argument in this topic. Simple as that and you can't disprove it.

 

Directed at the part "God created the big bang", PROVE IT, there is no actual proof that god has done anything in this world. He's just an icon that people worship to get from my understanding is a better "seat" in this so called "Heaven". I'm not telling you to top believing in God or anything, but there is no proof that he has done anything in this world and left behind a mark.

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God created the big bang so he set everything in motion and made everything.Therefore, evolution was created by God so, that makes evolution not a valid argument in this topic. Simple as that and you can't disprove it.

 

Directed at the part "God created the big bang", PROVE IT, there is no actual proof that god has done anything in this world. He's just an icon that people worship to get from my understanding is a better "seat" in this so called "Heaven". I'm not telling you to top believing in God or anything, but there is no proof that he has done anything in this world and left behind a mark.

Nor is their any proof that he has not. The proof of him creating the world is a book that is thousands of years old saying he did, that and people who have had miracles happen to them. God is definitely not just an "icon". Well this is just my opinion on things, feel free not to believe and feel free to believe.

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