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Proof Of God

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What is this 'revealed personality of God' that you're talking about? Haven't quite been following this topic.

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What is this 'revealed personality of God' that you're talking about? Haven't quite been following this topic.

 

I think he's referring to his god's "multiple-personality-disorder" ... -.-

Edited by Blyaunte

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What is this 'revealed personality of God' that you're talking about? Haven't quite been following this topic.

God's personality as described in the Bible.

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No, I'm not trying to prove God with it. I'm trying to clear up silly things that atheists say about the revealed personality of God that are patently untrue.

What kind of atheists do you talk to? The atheists that say that kind of stuff are comparable to the people that think that Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago.

I advise that you read some of Blyaunte's, Kwinten's, and Arctic Wolf's posts, then.

I never called them competent.

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Golf Foxthingy: how do you know what your God's personality is? I just can't see your god as a mr nice guy, judging from the very book that you base your whole faith on. Burning down two cities? What happened to forgiving? Killing the firstborns of the Egyptians? Why? Judging from the bible, I can't see your god as a loving god and I cannot understand why you could even worship such thing.

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I will admit that God has done some terrible things. The only possible way I think God can justify killing all of these people is, he is at war.

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Golf Foxthingy: how do you know what your God's personality is? I just can't see your god as a mr nice guy, judging from the very book that you base your whole faith on. Burning down two cities? What happened to forgiving? Killing the firstborns of the Egyptians? Why? Judging from the bible, I can't see your god as a loving god and I cannot understand why you could even worship such thing.

 

I believe the topic's name is "Proof Of God". We can discuss the philosophies of this entity's nature and what humanity considers it as in another thread. But the topic is questioning the evidence and proof of a being that is God.

 

Sorry if you feel that I'm not contributing. But I feel I need to give this topic a shove in the right direction.

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And why should people have those faiths and beliefs?

 

I never said that they should have those faiths and beliefs.

 

Do you have faiths and beliefs? If so do they tell you to spread correct information about it to create understanding?

 

I have beliefs, but not faith. Everyday that I wake up, I question if I am the same person I was yesterday. I don't feel like I can trust my memories, and sometimes I don't even feel like I am alive. I can't comprehend my own existence, or how I am privileged with thoughts and feelings. Am I real? Are these feelings real?

 

I don't have faith, simply because one can have faith in anything. Faith is comfort, and with so the price to pay is ignorance. I try to accept what is real, but I can never be so sure of anything. I believe that if I had faith in other people- and even faith in myself for that mater- that I could be a stronger person.

 

Why give up being a stronger person because faith can apply to anything?

 

It isn't "giving up." It's not giving in to faith, because faith is nothing more than faith.

 

If faith is nothing more than faith, why did you say it would make you a stronger person (bolded)?

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And why should people have those faiths and beliefs?

 

I never said that they should have those faiths and beliefs.

 

Do you have faiths and beliefs? If so do they tell you to spread correct information about it to create understanding?

 

I have beliefs, but not faith. Everyday that I wake up, I question if I am the same person I was yesterday. I don't feel like I can trust my memories, and sometimes I don't even feel like I am alive. I can't comprehend my own existence, or how I am privileged with thoughts and feelings. Am I real? Are these feelings real?

 

I don't have faith, simply because one can have faith in anything. Faith is comfort, and with so the price to pay is ignorance. I try to accept what is real, but I can never be so sure of anything. I believe that if I had faith in other people- and even faith in myself for that mater- that I could be a stronger person.

 

Why give up being a stronger person because faith can apply to anything?

 

It isn't "giving up." It's not giving in to faith, because faith is nothing more than faith.

 

If faith is nothing more than faith, why did you say it would make you a stronger person (bolded)?

 

Because if I had faith in myself, I could push myself to achieve more.

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And why should people have those faiths and beliefs?

 

I never said that they should have those faiths and beliefs.

 

Do you have faiths and beliefs? If so do they tell you to spread correct information about it to create understanding?

 

I have beliefs, but not faith. Everyday that I wake up, I question if I am the same person I was yesterday. I don't feel like I can trust my memories, and sometimes I don't even feel like I am alive. I can't comprehend my own existence, or how I am privileged with thoughts and feelings. Am I real? Are these feelings real?

 

I don't have faith, simply because one can have faith in anything. Faith is comfort, and with so the price to pay is ignorance. I try to accept what is real, but I can never be so sure of anything. I believe that if I had faith in other people- and even faith in myself for that mater- that I could be a stronger person.

 

Why give up being a stronger person because faith can apply to anything?

 

It isn't "giving up." It's not giving in to faith, because faith is nothing more than faith.

 

If faith is nothing more than faith, why did you say it would make you a stronger person (bolded)?

 

Because if I had faith in myself, I could push myself to achieve more.

 

I'm confused, so you don't trust your judgment?

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And why should people have those faiths and beliefs?

 

I never said that they should have those faiths and beliefs.

 

Do you have faiths and beliefs? If so do they tell you to spread correct information about it to create understanding?

 

I have beliefs, but not faith. Everyday that I wake up, I question if I am the same person I was yesterday. I don't feel like I can trust my memories, and sometimes I don't even feel like I am alive. I can't comprehend my own existence, or how I am privileged with thoughts and feelings. Am I real? Are these feelings real?

 

I don't have faith, simply because one can have faith in anything. Faith is comfort, and with so the price to pay is ignorance. I try to accept what is real, but I can never be so sure of anything. I believe that if I had faith in other people- and even faith in myself for that mater- that I could be a stronger person.

 

Why give up being a stronger person because faith can apply to anything?

 

It isn't "giving up." It's not giving in to faith, because faith is nothing more than faith.

 

If faith is nothing more than faith, why did you say it would make you a stronger person (bolded)?

 

Because if I had faith in myself, I could push myself to achieve more.

 

I'm confused, so you don't trust your judgment?

 

I don't make a judgement unless it is logical, or if I believe that it is logical.

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I have a question directed towards someone who believes in God. Try to follow my analysis, if you can.

 

 

The belief in God is considered a judgment, which is defined as "the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively." Now to understand that definition, you need to understand the word objectively, which is "The intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book." Basically, when something is objective, there is a right and wrong answer and based on logic, not opinions.

 

Being that, the reason often provided for the belief in God is the individual "has faith." Faith, is generally defined as "A belief that is not based on proof." Considering that the belief in anything that is not based on proof is not objective, for what reason should any logical person believe in God? Faith is the belief without proof or logic, so wouldn't God therefore be illogical?

 

 

 

 

 

*Note, I am not looking for any sort of debate, rather than just some discussion. I have my own personal beliefs, which are more Deistic than anything. If you don't know what that means, I believe in God, but not religion by means of any religion being more correct than another. I find it so completely idiotic that almost all religions tell all non-followers will go to hell.

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I have a question directed towards someone who believes in God. Try to follow my analysis, if you can.

 

 

The belief in God is considered a judgment, which is defined as "the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively." Now to understand that definition, you need to understand the word objectively, which is "The intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book." Basically, when something is objective, there is a right and wrong answer and based on logic, not opinions.

 

Being that, the reason often provided for the belief in God is the individual "has faith." Faith, is generally defined as "A belief that is not based on proof." Considering that the belief in anything that is not based on proof is not objective, for what reason should any logical person believe in God? Faith is the belief without proof or logic, so wouldn't God therefore be illogical?

 

 

 

 

 

*Note, I am not looking for any sort of debate, rather than just some discussion. I have my own personal beliefs, which are more Deistic than anything. If you don't know what that means, I believe in God, but not religion by means of any religion being more correct than another. I find it so completely idiotic that almost all religions tell all non-followers will go to hell.

Any Christian who believes in God purely on emotion alone does not follow the Bible very well.

 

Although there isn't proof of God, there is evidence that Jesus existed and there thus reason to believe.

 

Furthermore, when you hear an audible voice in your car when nobody is there, and talk to one of the people in the school's psychology department and he says you're fine, uhh. You tell me.

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I have a question directed towards someone who believes in God. Try to follow my analysis, if you can.

 

 

The belief in God is considered a judgment, which is defined as "the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively." Now to understand that definition, you need to understand the word objectively, which is "The intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book." Basically, when something is objective, there is a right and wrong answer and based on logic, not opinions.

 

Being that, the reason often provided for the belief in God is the individual "has faith." Faith, is generally defined as "A belief that is not based on proof." Considering that the belief in anything that is not based on proof is not objective, for what reason should any logical person believe in God? Faith is the belief without proof or logic, so wouldn't God therefore be illogical?

 

 

 

 

 

*Note, I am not looking for any sort of debate, rather than just some discussion. I have my own personal beliefs, which are more Deistic than anything. If you don't know what that means, I believe in God, but not religion by means of any religion being more correct than another. I find it so completely idiotic that almost all religions tell all non-followers will go to hell.

Sadly, people who believe in God know that belief in God is illogical. But taking drugs is illogical too, and lots of people do that. People will avoid logic just to make themselves feel better.

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Furthermore, when you hear an audible voice in your car when nobody is there, and talk to one of the people in the school's psychology department and he says you're fine, uhh. You tell me.

The radio.

 

In all seriousness, stuff can happen in your head. If I imagine a friend's voice in my head right now, it's almost like he is really talking to me here right now. Please man, you're not proving anything with these silly stories of other people's experiences. That's like using a picture to prove that you've seen a UFO. You're sure about what you've seen, but it were unfortunately only a bunch of flares in the air.

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Although there isn't proof of God, there is evidence that Jesus existed and there thus reason to believe.

 

There is no proof of the existence of Jesus. -.-

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Although there isn't proof of God, there is evidence that Jesus existed and there thus reason to believe.

 

There is no proof of the existence of Jesus. -.-

 

Evolution is a lie.

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Although there isn't proof of God, there is evidence that Jesus existed and there thus reason to believe.

 

There is no proof of the existence of Jesus. -.-

 

Evolution is a lie.

Yes, but it's a lie with evidence. We have ERVs, genetic sequence analysis, the fossil record, Charles Darwin's observations that tortoises adapted to their environments, comparative anatomy, comparative physiology, antibiotic/pesticide resistance, the peppered moth, and, to end on a more disturbing note, interspecies mating. In contrast, religion is a lie that requires it to have no evidence.

Edited by Fnord

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I have a question directed towards someone who believes in God. Try to follow my analysis, if you can.

 

 

The belief in God is considered a judgment, which is defined as "the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively." Now to understand that definition, you need to understand the word objectively, which is "The intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book." Basically, when something is objective, there is a right and wrong answer and based on logic, not opinions.

 

Being that, the reason often provided for the belief in God is the individual "has faith." Faith, is generally defined as "A belief that is not based on proof." Considering that the belief in anything that is not based on proof is not objective, for what reason should any logical person believe in God? Faith is the belief without proof or logic, so wouldn't God therefore be illogical?

 

 

 

 

 

*Note, I am not looking for any sort of debate, rather than just some discussion. I have my own personal beliefs, which are more Deistic than anything. If you don't know what that means, I believe in God, but not religion by means of any religion being more correct than another. I find it so completely idiotic that almost all religions tell all non-followers will go to hell.

 

Which is why i joined an agnostic church that believes that jesus was a cool person and is not obsessed with maaking you believe in god, just the teachings of jesus.

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I have a question directed towards someone who believes in God. Try to follow my analysis, if you can.

 

 

The belief in God is considered a judgment, which is defined as "the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively." Now to understand that definition, you need to understand the word objectively, which is "The intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book." Basically, when something is objective, there is a right and wrong answer and based on logic, not opinions.

 

Being that, the reason often provided for the belief in God is the individual "has faith." Faith, is generally defined as "A belief that is not based on proof." Considering that the belief in anything that is not based on proof is not objective, for what reason should any logical person believe in God? Faith is the belief without proof or logic, so wouldn't God therefore be illogical?

 

 

 

 

 

*Note, I am not looking for any sort of debate, rather than just some discussion. I have my own personal beliefs, which are more Deistic than anything. If you don't know what that means, I believe in God, but not religion by means of any religion being more correct than another. I find it so completely idiotic that almost all religions tell all non-followers will go to hell.

 

Which is why i joined an agnostic church that believes that jesus was a cool person and is not obsessed with maaking you believe in god, just the teachings of jesus.

 

Sadly, one of the teachings of Jesus involves him claiming divinity as God and sovereignty over all creation. What you have done is simply take the teachings of Jesus and Christianity you like and left out those perceive you have conflict with. It's all arbitrary. It's all your personal point of view and not his as Jesus.

 

So what we have here is you your "church" following an ideology not of Jesus but of yourself.

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I have a question directed towards someone who believes in God. Try to follow my analysis, if you can.

 

 

The belief in God is considered a judgment, which is defined as "the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively." Now to understand that definition, you need to understand the word objectively, which is "The intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book." Basically, when something is objective, there is a right and wrong answer and based on logic, not opinions.

 

Being that, the reason often provided for the belief in God is the individual "has faith." Faith, is generally defined as "A belief that is not based on proof." Considering that the belief in anything that is not based on proof is not objective, for what reason should any logical person believe in God? Faith is the belief without proof or logic, so wouldn't God therefore be illogical?

 

 

 

 

 

*Note, I am not looking for any sort of debate, rather than just some discussion. I have my own personal beliefs, which are more Deistic than anything. If you don't know what that means, I believe in God, but not religion by means of any religion being more correct than another. I find it so completely idiotic that almost all religions tell all non-followers will go to hell.

 

Which is why i joined an agnostic church that believes that jesus was a cool person and is not obsessed with maaking you believe in god, just the teachings of jesus.

 

Sadly, one of the teachings of Jesus involves him claiming divinity as God and sovereignty over all creation. What you have done is simply take the teachings of Jesus and Christianity you like and left out those perceive you have conflict with. It's all arbitrary. It's all your personal point of view and not his as Jesus.

 

So what we have here is you your "church" following an ideology not of Jesus but of yourself.

 

my church wants you to believe in god but doesnt say that your going to hell if you dont believe in god.

(i have i feeling i already lost this conversation)

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I have a question directed towards someone who believes in God. Try to follow my analysis, if you can.

 

 

The belief in God is considered a judgment, which is defined as "the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively." Now to understand that definition, you need to understand the word objectively, which is "The intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book." Basically, when something is objective, there is a right and wrong answer and based on logic, not opinions.

 

Being that, the reason often provided for the belief in God is the individual "has faith." Faith, is generally defined as "A belief that is not based on proof." Considering that the belief in anything that is not based on proof is not objective, for what reason should any logical person believe in God? Faith is the belief without proof or logic, so wouldn't God therefore be illogical?

 

 

 

 

 

*Note, I am not looking for any sort of debate, rather than just some discussion. I have my own personal beliefs, which are more Deistic than anything. If you don't know what that means, I believe in God, but not religion by means of any religion being more correct than another. I find it so completely idiotic that almost all religions tell all non-followers will go to hell.

 

Which is why i joined an agnostic church that believes that jesus was a cool person and is not obsessed with maaking you believe in god, just the teachings of jesus.

 

Sadly, one of the teachings of Jesus involves him claiming divinity as God and sovereignty over all creation. What you have done is simply take the teachings of Jesus and Christianity you like and left out those perceive you have conflict with. It's all arbitrary. It's all your personal point of view and not his as Jesus.

 

So what we have here is you your "church" following an ideology not of Jesus but of yourself.

 

my church wants you to believe in god but doesnt say that your going to hell if you dont believe in god.

(i have i feeling i already lost this conversation)

 

And this revelation of faith and Doctrine is revealed to you how exactly? In my mind, your church is no agnostic body but a religion with semi Christian theology who has handpicked Christian theology.

 

Agnosticism is basically fence sitting between Atheism and Theism. They conclude that knowing or confirming that value of such truths such as God's existence or the divinity of Jesus is impossible. An agnostic could state that we have no evidence on the existence of God at the moment but may have some later as science progresses (defined as weak agnosticism) or state that if God exists he has no interest in the universe hence to proof (apathetic agnosticism) or even state that we have no evidence of a deity and neither I nor you nor will have any at anytime in the (strong agnosticism).

 

Judging your statement that your church "wants" you to believe in the existence of God and even going so far as to assume his nature and will by denying the presence of Hell (contradicting Christian theology and the teachings of Jesus and his apostles BTW) your faith is clearly no agnosticism. It contradicts the core principle of not taking sides with the affirmative and the negative and stating that there is no way of understanding God. Yet your church seems to understand him pretty well by stating that there is no Hell.

 

We can discuss God's Nature in another debate but as for now, it would appear to me that you are siding with the proposition of God or a deity yes?

 

P.S - Are you denying the presence of hell or are you stating that just being away from the fullness of truth doesn't automatically land you a spot in Hell. If that is the case and you are simply saying that there are other factors involved in Salvation then I and the Catholic Church agrees with you.

Edited by Phoenix Rider

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I have a question directed towards someone who believes in God. Try to follow my analysis, if you can.

 

 

The belief in God is considered a judgment, which is defined as "the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively." Now to understand that definition, you need to understand the word objectively, which is "The intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book." Basically, when something is objective, there is a right and wrong answer and based on logic, not opinions.

 

Being that, the reason often provided for the belief in God is the individual "has faith." Faith, is generally defined as "A belief that is not based on proof." Considering that the belief in anything that is not based on proof is not objective, for what reason should any logical person believe in God? Faith is the belief without proof or logic, so wouldn't God therefore be illogical?

 

 

 

 

 

*Note, I am not looking for any sort of debate, rather than just some discussion. I have my own personal beliefs, which are more Deistic than anything. If you don't know what that means, I believe in God, but not religion by means of any religion being more correct than another. I find it so completely idiotic that almost all religions tell all non-followers will go to hell.

 

Which is why i joined an agnostic church that believes that jesus was a cool person and is not obsessed with maaking you believe in god, just the teachings of jesus.

 

Sadly, one of the teachings of Jesus involves him claiming divinity as God and sovereignty over all creation. What you have done is simply take the teachings of Jesus and Christianity you like and left out those perceive you have conflict with. It's all arbitrary. It's all your personal point of view and not his as Jesus.

 

So what we have here is you your "church" following an ideology not of Jesus but of yourself.

 

my church wants you to believe in god but doesnt say that your going to hell if you dont believe in god.

(i have i feeling i already lost this conversation)

 

And this revelation of faith and Doctrine is revealed to you how exactly? In my mind, your church is no agnostic body but a religion with semi Christian theology who has handpicked Christian theology.

 

Agnosticism is basically fence sitting between Atheism and Theism. They conclude that knowing or confirming that value of such truths such as God's existence or the divinity of Jesus is impossible. An agnostic could state that we have no evidence on the existence of God at the moment but may have some later as science progresses (defined as weak agnosticism) or state that if God exists he has no interest in the universe hence to proof (apathetic agnosticism) or even state that we have no evidence of a deity and neither I nor you nor will have any at anytime in the (strong agnosticism).

 

Judging your statement that your church "wants" you to believe in the existence of God and even going so far as to assume his nature and will by denying the presence of Hell (contradicting Christian theology and the teachings of Jesus and his apostles BTW) your faith is clearly no agnosticism. It contradicts the core principle of not taking sides with the affirmative and the negative and stating that there is no way of understanding God. Yet your church seems to understand him pretty well by stating that there is no Hell.

 

We can discuss God's Nature in another debate but as for now, it would appear to me that you are siding with the proposition of God or a deity yes?

 

P.S - Are you denying the presence of hell or are you stating that just being away from the fullness of truth doesn't automatically land you a spot in Hell. If that is the case and you are simply saying that there are other factors involved in Salvation then I and the Catholic Church agrees with you.

 

me(and my church) never said their is no hell but the latter, that their are several other factors, and no, i have not sided with the belivers, nor have i sided with the nonbelievers, i am agnostic.

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Which is why i joined an agnostic church that believes that jesus was a cool person and is not obsessed with maaking you believe in god, just the teachings of jesus.

 

Sadly, one of the teachings of Jesus involves him claiming divinity as God and sovereignty over all creation. What you have done is simply take the teachings of Jesus and Christianity you like and left out those perceive you have conflict with. It's all arbitrary. It's all your personal point of view and not his as Jesus.

 

So what we have here is you your "church" following an ideology not of Jesus but of yourself.

 

my church wants you to believe in god but doesnt say that your going to hell if you dont believe in god.

(i have i feeling i already lost this conversation)

 

And this revelation of faith and Doctrine is revealed to you how exactly? In my mind, your church is no agnostic body but a religion with semi Christian theology who has handpicked Christian theology.

 

Agnosticism is basically fence sitting between Atheism and Theism. They conclude that knowing or confirming that value of such truths such as God's existence or the divinity of Jesus is impossible. An agnostic could state that we have no evidence on the existence of God at the moment but may have some later as science progresses (defined as weak agnosticism) or state that if God exists he has no interest in the universe hence to proof (apathetic agnosticism) or even state that we have no evidence of a deity and neither I nor you nor will have any at anytime in the (strong agnosticism).

 

Judging your statement that your church "wants" you to believe in the existence of God and even going so far as to assume his nature and will by denying the presence of Hell (contradicting Christian theology and the teachings of Jesus and his apostles BTW) your faith is clearly no agnosticism. It contradicts the core principle of not taking sides with the affirmative and the negative and stating that there is no way of understanding God. Yet your church seems to understand him pretty well by stating that there is no Hell.

 

We can discuss God's Nature in another debate but as for now, it would appear to me that you are siding with the proposition of God or a deity yes?

 

P.S - Are you denying the presence of hell or are you stating that just being away from the fullness of truth doesn't automatically land you a spot in Hell. If that is the case and you are simply saying that there are other factors involved in Salvation then I and the Catholic Church agrees with you.

 

me(and my church) never said their is no hell but the latter, that their are several other factors, and no, i have not sided with the belivers, nor have i sided with the nonbelievers, i am agnostic.

 

Your and your church's views say other wise. The agnostic part I mean. Your church wants people to accept God's existence and even went as far as defining the requirements of Salvation. Granted, I have nothing against that but I am simply stating that belief in a God and Hell is no agnosticism. Please re-read my post.

 

Also, the fact that you call your belief and group and "church" which is a community, institution and or ecclesiastical power contradicts the agnostic position. As far as I an tell, there are no sects, denominations and most especially "churches" in agnosticism. It's a way of thinking, not a religious group. Much like atheism.

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