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Sakura

Animal Experimentation

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And other animals dont sense or think on the same level humans do

 

case closed.

Other animals can still suffer, whilst plants cannot at all.

Plant's dont suffer? Howso?

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You value humans higher? I value those who have no respect for Nature and non-human Animals, like you, below it.

 

If we are the strongest, it's our job to care for them.

Same here.

 

 

And why is progress so important? To take up more space and pollute? :eyebrows:

 

Then you volunteer yourself to be tested on.

 

These things need to be tested on something.

 

Anyone who believes that they shouldn't be tested on animals should step right up and take their place.

Of course none of you would be willing to do that though.

 

I find it amazing that you would value the life of another species more then the life of your own species thats just sick.

 

The world is a cruel world survival of the fittest.

 

Anyone who is against animal testing should also be against eating them as well because that is just as much a "cruel process"

 

Also be against pets once again another cruel process stripping animals away from their homes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would test. I admit I would hesitate if it was dangerous but I would.

 

I thought you said humans were superior. Then why can't we be above "survival of the fittest"? We don't need to put animals in danger anymore.

Edited by -REAP-

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Well you see... This is a rather touchy subject. Reading through a book called The Dragons of Eden, I read about monkeys that were taught standard American Sign Language. They had a vocabulary of 1000+ words, and were capable of communicating with humans that could "speak" sign language. This makes us question wether monkeys, and then animals as a whole, aren't actually closer to us than we actually think.

Taking this in consideration, I think that probably this kind of experimentation should be done with great care and by considering that these animals are, too, living beings.

However, we must also be aware that testing is usually necessary in order to succeed in the creation of a certain drug or medicine. This testing can actually save millions, if not billions, of lives. It's not just the lives that it can save right now, but also the lives that it potentially, and certainly, will save in the future. This is why scientific discovery as a whole is one of the most imperious needs for humankind survival (but, if I might add, a tool that can be misused for humankind's destruction), and when weighing the benefits, which are hundreds of lives saved plus a step forward towards better medical knowledge, against the cons of this, that is the suffering of animals, my guess is that the right, objective and logical choice is to keep on doing these tests, in the most humane ways possible, and also not to make animals suffer unnecessarily, especially when it means testing completely banal products (like shampoos, which give no real benefit to us) on them.

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And other animals dont sense or think on the same level humans do

 

case closed.

Other animals can still suffer, whilst plants cannot at all.

Plant's dont suffer? Howso?

As I have mentioned previously, they cannot think, or feel pain. There is no scientific evidence to show that a plant has a nervous system or any other system design that would cause conscious suffering from felt pain. Furthermore, plants simply have no evolutionary need to feel pain.

Edited by iToast

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If it's for humans, test it on humans.

And put millions and millions of humans at risk of dying?

 

Many animals have DNA that are similar to ours, thus scientists can still get valuable info without having to put any humans in harm's way.

 

And why shouldn't we?

 

I forgot to add in my post that it would be for people who volunteer to be tested on.

Okay. You try killing a human and then try killing a mouse and tell me what makes you feel worse.

 

Depends on the person; if they have no respect for Nature, then I'd feel worse killing the mouse, if the person cared a lot about Nature and helped prevent dis-respect for Nature, then I'd feel worse killing the human.

 

This is, of course, if neither of them have any family, friends or relations with anyone.

 

I say we should stop all non-human testing, unless you are trying something new on something, such as a Rabbit, which is designed to help Rabbits.

 

If it's for humans, test it on humans.

 

Balmung, why should they have a desire to learn our language? We have no desire to learn theirs.

 

You don't? I'd love to learn animal languages.

 

Every year, 50 to 100 million vertebrate animals in the world are used in scientific experimentation. These experiments are usually to either find out about the animals themselves or to test the effects and harm substances can have on them. This includes toxicity testing, education and training and basic or applied research. Animals have been tested on for centuries, however there is an increasing opinion that this is not acceptable.

 

On the one hand, human benefits can be obtained from animal testing which could not be gained by using other methods and arguably, humans should come first. We also share much of our DNA with other animals (we share approximately 99% with chimpanzees) so this would make them suitable guinea pigs as it could be fairly likely that substances would have similar effects on them as they would on humans. Past experience with animal testing has shown that medicinal advances can be made. In the UK and the USA all prescription drugs by law must be tested on animals before they are allowed onto the market; if this was abolished then human health could be threatened. Finally, many people that are for animal experimentation believe that any harm to the animals should be minimised and/or that all testing on animals should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

 

On the other hand, many people consider the practice of animal experimentation to be cruel, as in many cases the animals do suffer and many believe that animals have the right to be treated as beings of value. This would mean that it would be entirely unacceptable to experiment on animals, no matter what the potential human gain is. Animals are not always treated well by people experimenting upon them; millions of animals die each year due to this and it may be difficult to regulate the experimentation and make sure the animals are being treated properly. There have also been many terrible acts of animal exploitation such as cloning and creating mutant creatures to live lives of poor quality and lack of dignity. Another point is that despite the potential, few major breakthroughs have been made as a result of animal testing. Furthermore, in contradiction to the 'for' argument, most animal experiments are performed on animals that are in fact nothing like humans, such as rats and other rodents. This drastically decreases the potential of how useful these experiments could be. Finally, when humans are tested they give their consent to it, whereas animals cannot.

 

Worldwide, the major ethical view is that animal testing should be carried out under the circumstances that all harm and suffering to the animals is minimised. Do you believe animal experimentation is right or wrong? Let's debate.

 

 

An animal is an animal. Theres tons of them, until they gain enough intelligence to communicate with us and tell us to stop, I see no problem with it, because as of now, what are those animal races doing to better the world on their own?

yea i mean were the ones accelerateing global warning(sp?) and kiling stuff so us humans are obiously better than animals and they cant understand us so we should ig nore them because we are more inteligent :eyebrows:

 

besides us humans are to precious to put in danger

i mean i would rather 10000000 lowly amimals die than a precious human

 

 

and its not like the animals have families or something

we could kill them all and we rein supreem

 

These posts are completely correct in all sense of the word. Humans>Animals.

Until animals decide to do something about global warming I won't either! Animals don't have families, there's no love between two animals only the thought of survival of their species! They're not intelligent enough have emotions either!

 

 

Go look at some Elephants, they mourn when one dies.

 

Swans stay together for life.

I would feel worse about the human then the mouse

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Look its not like were testing these things on animals like whales or elephants.

 

We test them on animals that would be abundant in population or considered pests.

 

Dogs , cats , mice , rats

 

All of these animals that are tested on are also breeded for that specific purpose.

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Look its not like were testing these things on animals like whales or elephants.

 

We test them on animals that would be abundant in population or considered pests.

 

Dogs , cats , mice , rats

 

All of these animals that are tested on are also breeded for that specific purpose.

 

Yeah.. but humans are abundant as well. Just sayin'

Also about that global warming thing.. how are humans not a cause of it?

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Just something -- people can sign up to be tested on. Animals have no way of consenting to experimentation. So ethically speaking, experimenting on humans is much more easily justifiable.

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Ok I just read through about a page worth of useless pictures... (Well, mostly useless)

:eyebrows:

To the topic at hand:

There are billions upon billions of mice in the world. They are experimented on because;

1) There are more than we can ever count, and they reproduce like mad (something humans cannot do)

2) It is much safer than testing on humans.

 

3) They are genetically similar to humans, so testing is pretty accurate.

 

 

The way I see it, if its beneficial for ourselves, why not do it? Sacrifice some mice to save lives with medicines. I don't get why, because are a superior race, we have to help every other race. What about helping ourselves? Its not selfish, its survival, its life.

 

I will say though that cosmetic testing has to go. Thats pretty much useless ;).

 

Just my two cents.

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Ok I just read through about a page worth of useless pictures... (Well, mostly useless)

:eyebrows:

To the topic at hand:

There are billions upon billions of mice in the world. They are experimented on because;

1) There are more than we can ever count, and they reproduce like mad (something humans cannot do)

2) It is much safer than testing on humans.

 

3) They are genetically similar to humans, so testing is pretty accurate.

 

 

The way I see it, if its beneficial for ourselves, why not do it? Sacrifice some mice to save lives with medicines. I don't get why, because are a superior race, we have to help every other race. What about helping ourselves? Its not selfish, its survival, its life.

 

I will say though that cosmetic testing has to go. Thats pretty much useless ;).

 

Just my two cents.

 

Cosmetic testing is used so people don't have their skin burning... Because of a product they used.

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And those products tend to be, IMO, unnecessary.

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I seriously don't believe you need more than 10 to get a trustworthy result.

Well you're wrong. It'll often take hundreds of trials to fully realize the pros and cons of something.

 

 

I don't really see an alternative to animal testing. Is there one? :eyebrows:

human testing?

 

 

 

I always get hate comments for this; but i'm pro human-testing

put tests on serial killers; those who are going to get executed; china could be a great deliver for that one!

 

I don't see why animal testing must be done

on the other hand on what else, except for humans, must they test things on?

 

aargh, i'm comming to the point that i, once again, don't really care! :X

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And those products tend to be, IMO, unnecessary.

 

Tell that to your GF if you have one.

 

Or go a bit without shampoo and conditioner then tell me how unnecessary they are.

 

I always get hate comments for this; but i'm pro human-testing

put tests on serial killers; those who are going to get executed; china could be a great deliver for that one!

 

Torturing someone to death is a crueler punishment then death.

 

I wouldn't force torture till death on the worse killers.

Edited by Emo_Nemo

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Torturing someone to death is a crueler punishment then death.

 

I wouldn't force torture till death on the worse killers.

I would. If it was a gruesome killer that tortured his victims, lets try some products on him.

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Torturing someone to death is a crueler punishment then death.

 

I wouldn't force torture till death on the worse killers.

I would. If it was a gruesome killer that tortured his victims, lets try some products on him.

 

Well I suppose it depends on the case.

 

I mean if the victim died quickly then torture till death would be harsh.

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And those products tend to be, IMO, unnecessary.

 

Tell that to your GF if you have one.

 

Or go a bit without shampoo and conditioner then tell me how unnecessary they are.

 

Yes... but we ALREADY have shampoo and conditioner that work.... so, why keep on going...?

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And those products tend to be, IMO, unnecessary.

 

Tell that to your GF if you have one.

 

Or go a bit without shampoo and conditioner then tell me how unnecessary they are.

Obviously you have never dated a Vegan. Because many of them forgo those kinds of things everyday. And there are many shampoos, conditioners, etc, available for purchase that are, so called, "animal friendly".

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Top Hat said "lifes are meaningless and sorrowful." If their lives are meaningless--who cares?

You took that out of context. I was saying that animal testing made their lives sorrowful and that they are treated like dirt. Their lives are made meaningless. But that is a good point you made there about nobody caring about them. Animals have rights. Why are they being ignored? Because they can't speak or do anything about it.

 

Imagine you are deaf and blind. Some people come up to you, knowing you are deaf and blind and they ask why they shouldn't kill you. They say if you give them a reason they will leave you alone. Of course, you don't know what the hell is going on. You don't respond so they think they have the right to kill you.

This situation is very similair.

 

If you're blind and deaf--what can you do anyways? You're probably mute as well-- in which case you're in a vegitative state. If I couldn't see art or hear music--let alone see out my window-- I don't know if I'd want to live.

 

listen to the words of the man in the background of this song:

Metallica-One

Perhaps you wouldn't want to live, but how do you know if someone else blind, deaf and mute would? You don't. They should still have the right to live, regardless of their ability to communicate.

 

There is a difference between having life and living-- you can be alive, but you cannot live without communication--without sight or being able to hear.

 

If you could do nothing but lay in bed all day-- have someone else feed you (or be fed through a tube)--change your clothes- if that..would you want to live without being able to do anything? would you not live every waking moment asking why you were this way? could you even ask yourself these things without knowledge of communcation? could you simply think sadness...without a word for it? what would you do...if you could not do anything?

 

I wouldn't know any better :eyebrows:

I was saying that animals are a bit like deaf-blind people. A deaf person can see danger, just not hear it. Animals don't understand our language apart from a few commands. A blind person can hear people coming to them but they don't know what kind of a threat they are. Animals aren't always blind, but being blind is like being defenseless because you don't know where the danger is coming from. Animals are also helpless (Well, I imagine ones that are tested on are helpless so they don't break out).

 

I find it amazing that you would value the life of another species more then the life of your own species thats just sick.

Its called being kind and selfless. Its called standing up for what you think is right.

Edited by Top Hat

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I find it amazing that you would value the life of another species more then the life of your own species thats just sick.

Its called being kind and selfless. Its called standing up for what you think is right.

You know, if we substituted animals with people of other races and it was 200 years ago.. :eyebrows:

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I love animals but I would rather 10,000 animals die than to have the life of a human taken away.

Some might say I have no heart because I can allow animals to die, no sir, I would call it endangering the lives of non-sentient beings to save the lives of beings who are capable of superior thinking.

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I love animals but I would rather 10,000 animals die than to have the life of a human taken away.

Some might say I have no heart because I can allow animals to die, no sir, I would call it endangering the lives of non-sentient beings to save the lives of beings who are capable of superior thinking.

I agree partially... Look at my post on the last page. I do think us humans are more valuable than animals, but we can't neglect either that they're pretty close... I think we can experiment on them, while being perfectly humane.

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I would call it endangering the lives of non-sentient beings to save the lives of beings who are capable of superior thinking.

1) Animals are infact Sentient your argument is invalid.

2) Superior Thinking is an Opinion i could argue that the fact that we act like our pets little slaves is an indicator that we're not as superior mentally as we think.

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I would call it endangering the lives of non-sentient beings to save the lives of beings who are capable of superior thinking.

1) Animals are infact Sentient your argument is invalid.

2) Superior Thinking is an Opinion i could argue that the fact that we act like our pets little slaves is an indicator that we're not as superior mentally as we think.

To invalidate his argument, since you're the one make the affirmation that they ARE sentient, you have to prove they are. You have the burden of proof in this case.

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\

To invalidate his argument, since you're the one make the affirmation that they ARE sentient, you have to prove they are. You have the burden of proof in this case.

 

I can't prove your sentient either though you could be a robot designed with a different reaction to any combination of molecular movement that occurs but we assume that you are infact sentient because our common sense kicks in and we base our thoughts on the assumption that you are indeed sentient and since Humans are no less animals then an Elephant we can use the same common sense to say animals are infact sentient. Bantering about technicallities in a debate doesn't change anything it just distracts people from using common sense and forces them to have to obsess over petty technicallities.

 

EDIT: My post sort of sounds like i'm attacking you i'm not :eyebrows:

Edited by Meidou

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