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Sakura

Self-harm

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This is a hard question, I can assure you that some people do it because they are neglected. I believe that they don't feel fit in, no one notices them or something in that category and they break. Cutting leads to therapy and then (hopefully) someone will notice and that's what they want. This is extremely unhealthy yes but they could probably careless if they are cutting themselves. This can also be triggered by going through a very stressful time. Once your stressed people can do more than just cut. They might take drugs, or consider suicide. (Rarely)

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Self harm in the form of mutilation of the skin is just dumb. Only cowards and idiots mutilate themselves. Self harming in the form of ,hitting one's self, lightly, I do not disagree with. If people gently hit themself, on the back of the head, as a reminder that they should not have done something, I can understand it. Self harm in the form of drug overdose, eating disorders, alcohol or drug addiction, or even failing to look after one's self, emotionally or physically, are as equally pathetic in my view as mutilation of the skin. After all, are they not different forms of mutilation?

 

Only cowards take the selfish, "easy", ways of differing forms of mutilation. Perhaps some do it because they think it is "cool". Perhaps they do it because they are depressed. No matter what it is, it is an act of a coward, and an idiot.

 

Self-harm is a misnomer. It doesn't just harm yourself, it harms everyone who cares about you.

Altruism and empathy are the chains of cruelty that bind us together. A man's life is his own, he need not be concerned with what others want him to do.

 

How is empathy a "chain of cruelty"?

 

A mans' life is is own, provided his actions do not harm others. When they do so, his life is no longer his own, and the actions of that man need to be moderated for the protection of others.

 

Self-harm is a misnomer. It doesn't just harm yourself, it harms everyone who cares about you.

Altruism and empathy are the chains of cruelty that bind us together. A man's life is his own, he need not be concerned with what others want him to do.

Whether or not empathy is bad or good does not change whether it exists. And the fact that it does exist means that self-harm will inevitably cause harm to others. So, if the person inflicting it upon himself is cruelly chained by empathy as well, he should stop for the sake of those he loves.

 

I agree. However, I would, take it a step further and, say he should stop for himself.

 

~John

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Self harm in the form of mutilation of the skin is just dumb. Only cowards and idiots mutilate themselves. Self harming in the form of ,hitting one's self, lightly, I do not disagree with. If people gently hit themself, on the back of the head, as a reminder that they should not have done something, I can understand it. Self harm in the form of drug overdose, eating disorders, alcohol or drug addiction, or even failing to look after one's self, emotionally or physically, are as equally pathetic in my view as mutilation of the skin. After all, are they not different forms of mutilation?

 

Only cowards take the selfish, "easy", ways of differing forms of mutilation. Perhaps some do it because they think it is "cool". Perhaps they do it because they are depressed. No matter what it is, it is an act of a coward, and an idiot.

 

Self-harm is a misnomer. It doesn't just harm yourself, it harms everyone who cares about you.

Altruism and empathy are the chains of cruelty that bind us together. A man's life is his own, he need not be concerned with what others want him to do.

 

How is empathy a "chain of cruelty"?

 

A mans' life is is own, provided his actions do not harm others. When they do so, his life is no longer his own, and the actions of that man need to be moderated for the protection of others.

But see, the problem with claiming someone should stop something if it hurts those around him is that you have no definition of where is ends. Should someone stop smoking altogether if one of their relatives disagrees with it, or should they stop smoking just when they're in that relative's presence, as a courtesy? The former is definitely excessive, while the latter is being quite polite. And while they are obviously different, smoking and cutting/burning/whatever are both forms of self harm, both ways to get psychological relief through physical decay. Clearly you shouldn't take out a razor at your next family gathering, but if your subtle about it and it helps more than it hurts, then why the hell should you have to stop?

 

Self-harm is a misnomer. It doesn't just harm yourself, it harms everyone who cares about you.

Altruism and empathy are the chains of cruelty that bind us together. A man's life is his own, he need not be concerned with what others want him to do.

Whether or not empathy is bad or good does not change whether it exists. And the fact that it does exist means that self-harm will inevitably cause harm to others. So, if the person inflicting it upon himself is cruelly chained by empathy as well, he should stop for the sake of those he loves.

 

I agree. However, I would, take it a step further and, say he should stop for himself.

 

~John

What if he's continuing for himself? If it helps him, if he gets the relief he needs from it, and if it's that much better than confronting everything wrong in his life, then why would he be stopping for himself? And, again, why should he have to?

 

 

 

 

 

~CQ :eyebrows:

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I suppose I'd have turned to self harm by now if I didn't have other outlets for my emotional pain etc. It's never been all that bad, but when I am angry I just do something until it hurts. Last time I was really angry and on the verge of breaking down, I went cycling for 3 and a half hours.

 

I suppose it's your choice; it's your body. If you wish to self harm, because it lets out your anger and cools you down, then why not? But if you have so many other options and you don't really want to, like me, then find other outlets. If you are that trapped that Self Harm is the only way, why should you not? Just wait for the pain to fade a little, and then try to find someone who understands you.

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Following that logic, in order to avoid hurting those who love him, a better solution might be to continue his self harm, in order to have an outlet and not simply bottle everything inside, but to be smart about it, and keep anyone from knowing. Ignorance is bliss, no matter how much you try to deny it, and if you're going to be worrying about others more than yourself, you can't ignore the fact that they won't suffer if they never find out. Yourself first or others, Evan, you can't have both :eyebrows:

Ah, but that entirely depends on this person outsmarting everyone around him, and completely containing the overwhelming impulse to seek help. Which I would say most people do not manage for very long.

 

My stance on cutting is simply that it is a solution, just not the most preferable. If you could go to a therapist and talk your problems out and become all sunshine and happiness, or go to a psychiatrist and get a bunch of pills that make you all sunshine and happiness, then why the hell wouldn't you? Because, unfortunately, not everything is that simple. Addressing the crapload of problems one has in their life is not a pleasant notion. Releasing a little bit of pain in the form of physical pain every once in a while may, for some people, be the only way they can function normally. If it works, it works; it's just not always pretty.

Except inflicting physical pain on oneself isn't functioning normally.

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It can be a relief to whatever problem is happening thereof. Unfortunately, more and more adolescents now think it is "cool" and follow the crowd. It is not usually attention seeking, because people try to hide the "mutilatation". People also feel guilty about something, or angry and hurt themselves because of that.

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Unfortunately, more and more adolescents now think it is "cool" and follow the crowd.

Do you have any evidence to back up that statement? :eyebrows:

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Only cowards take the selfish, "easy", ways of differing forms of mutilation.

You will find that people courageous enough to do the "hard way" the first time through are few and far between. Everyone I know who actually needs help have hurt themselves or others before actually seeking. It's an almost inarguable trend in everything from Bipolar Depression to Alcoholism. You cannot expect people to simple not be "cowards."

 

I find nothing courageous about suicide.

 

But see, the problem with claiming someone should stop something if it hurts those around him is that you have no definition of where is ends. Should someone stop smoking altogether if one of their relatives disagrees with it, or should they stop smoking just when they're in that relative's presence, as a courtesy?

 

I would say the latter, to do otherwise would be "too controling". The relative should not be subjected to second-hand smoke, however, the smoker should not be forced to quit for others, thus the middle-ground would be the latter.

 

The former is definitely excessive, while the latter is being quite polite. And while they are obviously different, smoking and cutting/burning/whatever are both forms of self harm, both ways to get psychological relief through physical decay. Clearly you shouldn't take out a razor at your next family gathering, but if your subtle about it and it helps more than it hurts, then why the hell should you have to stop?

 

Why the hell should you have the begin? Self-harm in the direct form of cutting oneself (intentionally) is not natural, nor should it be allowed, in my opinion.

 

What if he's continuing for himself? If it helps him, if he gets the relief he needs from it, and if it's that much better than confronting everything wrong in his life, then why would he be stopping for himself? And, again, why should he have to?

 

 

 

 

 

~CQ :eyebrows:

 

I assume we are talking about cutting oneself, intentionally? It is an act that only cowards do.

 

Why should he stop? Because there is no denying the physical trama caused by intentional self-cutting.

 

~John

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Unfortunately, more and more adolescents now think it is "cool" and follow the crowd.

Do you have any evidence to back up that statement? :eyebrows:

 

Look around you. Talk to half the kids who threaten to kill themselves or cut themselves. Ask them what their reason for it is. Most of the time it won't be an abusive parent or lack of care it will be something as mundane of losing a bf or not getting what they want.

 

Hurting your self has become a form of coolness among fakemos

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Unfortunately, more and more adolescents now think it is "cool" and follow the crowd.

Do you have any evidence to back up that statement? :eyebrows:

 

Look around you. Talk to half the kids who threaten to kill themselves or cut themselves. Ask them what their reason for it is. Most of the time it won't be an abusive parent or lack of care it will be something as mundane of losing a bf or not getting what they want.

 

Hurting your self has become a form of coolness among fakemos

Honestly, I find your opinion rather ignorant. Actually, I do know people who have done it and I can assure you it wasn't to "fit in" or follow the crowd. I'm not saying nobody has ever done it for that reason, but you're making ridiculous assumptions with no evidence to back your opinion up. Even if you asked a self-harmer of their reasoning, chances are they're not going to tell you. You have no way of knowing what their problems are and assuming they are doing it because they think it is "cool" is both ignorant and generalising. Furthermore, shouldn't it be their choice whether or not to do it in the first place? As for "fakemos", that is merely a stereotype and nothing more.

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But see, the problem with claiming someone should stop something if it hurts those around him is that you have no definition of where is ends. Should someone stop smoking altogether if one of their relatives disagrees with it, or should they stop smoking just when they're in that relative's presence, as a courtesy?

 

I would say the latter, to do otherwise would be "too controlling". The relative should not be subjected to second-hand smoke, however, the smoker should not be forced to quit for others, thus the middle-ground would be the latter.

I thank you for demonstrating my point ;) Now apply that to other forms of self harm. The only difference I can tell is that there's no such thing as "second hand cuts".

 

 

The former is definitely excessive, while the latter is being quite polite. And while they are obviously different, smoking and cutting/burning/whatever are both forms of self harm, both ways to get psychological relief through physical decay. Clearly you shouldn't take out a razor at your next family gathering, but if your subtle about it and it helps more than it hurts, then why the hell should you have to stop?

 

Why the hell should you have the begin? Self-harm in the direct form of cutting oneself (intentionally) is not natural, nor should it be allowed, in my opinion.

Why the hell do people consume large amounts of alcohol? Because it gives them a release, a way of getting psychological relief through physical decay. Why does it feel like I've said that before?

 

What if he's continuing for himself? If it helps him, if he gets the relief he needs from it, and if it's that much better than confronting everything wrong in his life, then why would he be stopping for himself? And, again, why should he have to?

 

 

 

 

 

~CQ :eyebrows:

 

I assume we are talking about cutting oneself, intentionally? It is an act that only cowards do.

 

Why should he stop? Because there is no denying the physical trama caused by intentional self-cutting.

 

~John

No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it.

 

And stating that doing something one disagrees with is an act only cowards do is, in itself, an act only cowards do. Funnily enough, people do things for different reasons. Different people have different limits, and different weak points. It is... impossible to understand how any one person feels, unless you happen to be that person.

 

 

On a completely unrelated note, I find it hilarious that I like you so much as a person, but our views and stances on just about everything are polar opposite :D

 

Unfortunately, more and more adolescents now think it is "cool" and follow the crowd.

Do you have any evidence to back up that statement? :P

 

Look around you. Talk to half the kids who threaten to kill themselves or cut themselves. Ask them what their reason for it is. Most of the time it won't be an abusive parent or lack of care it will be something as mundane of losing a bf or not getting what they want.

 

Hurting your self has become a form of coolness among fakemos

Because Ra knows, only angsty teens with no real problems in their perfect lives would ever try suicide.

 

 

I would strongly suggest that you follow up on the challenge you gave to.... "iToast". You may be surprised.

 

 

 

 

 

~CQ ^_^

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No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it.

 

And stating that doing something one disagrees with is an act only cowards do is, in itself, an act only cowards do. Funnily enough, people do things for different reasons. Different people have different limits, and different weak points. It is... impossible to understand how any one person feels, unless you happen to be that person.

 

 

On a completely unrelated note, I find it hilarious that I like you so much as a person, but our views and stances on just about everything are polar opposite laugh.gif

 

 

"No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it."

 

Yes so lets just cover up the problem and never confront it. In the end when you finally realize that you have to man up what did the cutting give to you? A bunch of scars that may not go away?

 

Honestly, I find your opinion rather ignorant. Actually, I do know people who have done it and I can assure you it wasn't to "fit in" or follow the crowd. I'm not saying nobody has ever done it for that reason, but you're making ridiculous assumptions with no evidence to back your opinion up. Even if you asked a self-harmer of their reasoning, chances are they're not going to tell you. You have no way of knowing what their problems are and assuming they are doing it because they think it is "cool" is both ignorant and generalising. Furthermore, shouldn't it be their choice whether or not to do it in the first place? As for "fakemos", that is merely a stereotype and nothing more.

 

Yes sure there are people who have genuine problems. But going through high school i've noticed a third of my school seems to be doing what I stated above. I think its fairly safe to assume that all of these are not genuine problems warranting cutting. I went through a fairly long period of my life at a poverty level of income struggling not having new clothes hoping that my mom could keep the bills paid being made fun of in school for being scrubbish looking because at the time that was all I could do and this whole time I did not inflict self harm on myself. The reason why I say fakemos is because alot of the people I see that "have issues" don't have a damn clue what hard is. As long as you have clothes on your back a safe place to live basic necessities and parents who take care of you your life is not hard your life is not even close to hard. So when I see people who have highlights in their hair $50 jeans 5 different pairs of shoes and 30 different outfits I can't honestly fathom what would be so hard about their life and then when they have the audacity to openly post on their myspace my bf dumped me today I think I might kill myself for attention is absolutely maddening.

Edited by Emo_Nemo

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No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it.

 

And stating that doing something one disagrees with is an act only cowards do is, in itself, an act only cowards do. Funnily enough, people do things for different reasons. Different people have different limits, and different weak points. It is... impossible to understand how any one person feels, unless you happen to be that person.

 

 

On a completely unrelated note, I find it hilarious that I like you so much as a person, but our views and stances on just about everything are polar opposite laugh.gif

 

 

"No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it."

 

Yes so lets just cover up the problem and never confront it. In the end when you finally realize that you have to man up what did the cutting give to you? A bunch of scars that may not go away?

Ra, how many times have I said this now? Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay.

 

 

All together now: Psychological relief through physical decay!

 

Funnily enough, not everyone is willing to go and "man up", and face every single problem in their life. I can tell you, it's not the barrel full of laughs you seem to think it is.

 

My stance on cutting is simply that it is a solution, just not the most preferable. If you could go to a therapist and talk your problems out and become all sunshine and happiness, or go to a psychiatrist and get a bunch of pills that make you all sunshine and happiness, then why the hell wouldn't you? Because, unfortunately, not everything is that simple. Addressing the crapload of problems one has in their life is not a pleasant notion. Releasing a little bit of pain in the form of physical pain every once in a while may, for some people, be the only way they can function normally. If it works, it works; it's just not always pretty.

 

"No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it."

 

Yes so lets just cover up the problem and never confront it. In the end when you finally realize that you have to man up what did the cutting give to you? A bunch of scars that may not go away?

Again, that's really easy to say for someone who doesn't face those problems. People who actually need help rarely, if ever, say "I need help, I will go get help now." They go through a long path of hurting before they either realize they need help or finally seek help. Don't make claims about something you don't understand...

^_^ You're awesome :P

 

 

 

 

 

~CQ :eyebrows:

Edited by Cow Queen

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"No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it."

 

Yes so lets just cover up the problem and never confront it. In the end when you finally realize that you have to man up what did the cutting give to you? A bunch of scars that may not go away?

Again, that's really easy to say for someone who doesn't face those problems. People who actually need help rarely, if ever, say "I need help, I will go get help now." They go through a long path of hurting before they either realize they need help or finally seek help. Don't make claims about something you don't understand...

 

Read my edited above post. I went through having an abusive father who eventually got cleaned up after being imprisoned for 3 years and living at a 9k income for 3 years. No reason felt to cut myself and thats definitely alot worse then what most have it.

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"No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it."

 

Yes so lets just cover up the problem and never confront it. In the end when you finally realize that you have to man up what did the cutting give to you? A bunch of scars that may not go away?

Again, that's really easy to say for someone who doesn't face those problems. People who actually need help rarely, if ever, say "I need help, I will go get help now." They go through a long path of hurting before they either realize they need help or finally seek help. Don't make claims about something you don't understand...

 

Read my edited above post. I went through having an abusive father who eventually got cleaned up after being imprisoned for 3 years and living at a 9k income for 3 years. No reason felt to cut myself and thats definitely alot worse then what most have it.

 

Yes sure there are people who have genuine problems. But going through high school i've noticed a third of my school seems to be doing what I stated above. I think its fairly safe to assume that all of these are not genuine problems warranting cutting. I went through a fairly long period of my life at a poverty level of income struggling not having new clothes hoping that my mom could keep the bills paid being made fun of in school for being scrubbish looking because at the time that was all I could do and this whole time I did not inflict self harm on myself. The reason why I say fakemos is because alot of the people I see that "have issues" don't have a damn clue what hard is. As long as you have clothes on your back a safe place to live basic necessities and parents who take care of you your life is not hard your life is not even close to hard. So when I see people who have highlights in their hair $50 jeans 5 different pairs of shoes and 30 different outfits I can't honestly fathom what would be so hard about their life and then when they have the audacity to openly post on their myspace my bf dumped me today I think I might kill myself for attention is absolutely maddening.

Hmm..... Coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, I can honestly tell you that I have never experienced that sort of hardship. I have never had to be concerned about money through my entire life, because I was fortunate enough to be born into a moderately wealthy family, and could in no way consider myself anything less than privileged. But I can tell you that there is, sadly, more to life than money. There are reasons why someone who seems to have every single thing in the world would have a reason to harm, or even kill, themselves, that go quite a bit deeper than "OMG my bf broke up with me!"

 

 

 

 

~CQ :eyebrows:

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"No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it."

 

Yes so lets just cover up the problem and never confront it. In the end when you finally realize that you have to man up what did the cutting give to you? A bunch of scars that may not go away?

Again, that's really easy to say for someone who doesn't face those problems. People who actually need help rarely, if ever, say "I need help, I will go get help now." They go through a long path of hurting before they either realize they need help or finally seek help. Don't make claims about something you don't understand...

 

Read my edited above post. I went through having an abusive father who eventually got cleaned up after being imprisoned for 3 years and living at a 9k income for 3 years. No reason felt to cut myself and thats definitely alot worse then what most have it.

 

Yes sure there are people who have genuine problems. But going through high school i've noticed a third of my school seems to be doing what I stated above. I think its fairly safe to assume that all of these are not genuine problems warranting cutting. I went through a fairly long period of my life at a poverty level of income struggling not having new clothes hoping that my mom could keep the bills paid being made fun of in school for being scrubbish looking because at the time that was all I could do and this whole time I did not inflict self harm on myself. The reason why I say fakemos is because alot of the people I see that "have issues" don't have a damn clue what hard is. As long as you have clothes on your back a safe place to live basic necessities and parents who take care of you your life is not hard your life is not even close to hard. So when I see people who have highlights in their hair $50 jeans 5 different pairs of shoes and 30 different outfits I can't honestly fathom what would be so hard about their life and then when they have the audacity to openly post on their myspace my bf dumped me today I think I might kill myself for attention is absolutely maddening.

Hmm..... Coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, I can honestly tell you that I have never experienced that sort of hardship. I have never had to be concerned about money through my entire life, because I was fortunate enough to be born into a moderately wealthy family, and could in no way consider myself anything less than privileged. But I can tell you that there is, sadly, more to life than money. There are reasons why someone who seems to have every single thing in the world would have a reason to harm, or even kill, themselves, that go quite a bit deeper than "OMG my bf broke up with me!"

 

 

 

 

~CQ :eyebrows:

 

 

Well the reasons our opinions may differ is because I can see it from both perspectives.

 

Because now i'm out of the situation and my dad makes around 100k/yearly

 

But i've also been in the sucky situation as well.

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"No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it."

 

Yes so lets just cover up the problem and never confront it. In the end when you finally realize that you have to man up what did the cutting give to you? A bunch of scars that may not go away?

Again, that's really easy to say for someone who doesn't face those problems. People who actually need help rarely, if ever, say "I need help, I will go get help now." They go through a long path of hurting before they either realize they need help or finally seek help. Don't make claims about something you don't understand...

 

Read my edited above post. I went through having an abusive father who eventually got cleaned up after being imprisoned for 3 years and living at a 9k income for 3 years. No reason felt to cut myself and thats definitely alot worse then what most have it.

 

Yes sure there are people who have genuine problems. But going through high school i've noticed a third of my school seems to be doing what I stated above. I think its fairly safe to assume that all of these are not genuine problems warranting cutting. I went through a fairly long period of my life at a poverty level of income struggling not having new clothes hoping that my mom could keep the bills paid being made fun of in school for being scrubbish looking because at the time that was all I could do and this whole time I did not inflict self harm on myself. The reason why I say fakemos is because alot of the people I see that "have issues" don't have a damn clue what hard is. As long as you have clothes on your back a safe place to live basic necessities and parents who take care of you your life is not hard your life is not even close to hard. So when I see people who have highlights in their hair $50 jeans 5 different pairs of shoes and 30 different outfits I can't honestly fathom what would be so hard about their life and then when they have the audacity to openly post on their myspace my bf dumped me today I think I might kill myself for attention is absolutely maddening.

Hmm..... Coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, I can honestly tell you that I have never experienced that sort of hardship. I have never had to be concerned about money through my entire life, because I was fortunate enough to be born into a moderately wealthy family, and could in no way consider myself anything less than privileged. But I can tell you that there is, sadly, more to life than money. There are reasons why someone who seems to have every single thing in the world would have a reason to harm, or even kill, themselves, that go quite a bit deeper than "OMG my bf broke up with me!"

 

 

 

 

~CQ :eyebrows:

 

 

Well the reasons our opinions may differ is because I can see it from both perspectives.

 

Because now i'm out of the situation and my dad makes around 100k/yearly

 

But i've also been in the sucky situation as well.

Oh, you can see it from two situations, but can you see it from every angle? Evidently, you don't get it. You already stated that. You don't understand why someone would feel the need to harm themselves. You've been acting like the only things that count are the things you can see; that people who seem perfectly normal may not be just peachy fine. That's not true :P

 

 

 

 

 

~CQ ^_^

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Ra, how many times have I said this now? Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay. Psychological relief through physical decay.

 

 

All together now: Psychological relief through physical decay!

 

Funnily enough, not everyone is willing to go and "man up", and face every single problem in their life. I can tell you, it's not the barrel full of laughs you seem to think it is.

Yes, but that sort of relief is extremely temporary and is not actually a solution - it simply causes more problems. I'm not saying that I don't understand why people do it, or that people "shouldn't be allowed" -- but I really think there is always a solution that is better than self-harm, and that morally speaking, it does nothing but damage, despite the fleeting psychological relief a person may experience.

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I'll provide a quote within a quote.

 

This tendency to avoid problems and the emotional suffering inherent in them is the primary basis of all human mental illness. Since most of us have this tendency to a greater or lesser degree, most of us are mentally ill to a greater or lesser degree, lacking complete mental health. Some of us will go to quite extraordinary lengths to avoid our problems and the suffering they cause, proceeding far afield from all that is clearly good and sensible in order to try to find an easy way out, building the most elaborate fantasies in which to live, sometimes to the total exclusion of reality. In the succinctly elegant words of Carl Jung, 'Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering.'

 

Yes - self-harm is a form of mental illness.

 

Yes - mental illness is a means of escape and avoidance.

 

Yes - we all exhibit some degree of such mental illness.

 

Yes - we express our mental illnesses in different ways to suit our temperament and situation.

 

In case anyone was interested in where the above quoted author was going with this assertion - I can highly recommend the book and continue the quote below:

 

"But the substitute itself ultimately becomes more painful than the legitimate suffering it was designed to avoid....And without healing, the human spirit begins to shrivel.

 

"Therefore let us inculcate in ourselves and in our children the means of achieving mental and spiritual health. By this I mean let us teach ourselves and our children the necessity for suffering and the value thereof, the need to face problems directly and to experience the pain involved. I have stated that discipline is the basic set of tools we require to solve life's problems. It will be come clear that these tools are techniques of suffering, means by which we experience the pain of problems in such a way as to work them through and solve them successfully, learning and growing in the process. When we teach ourselves and our children discipline, we are teaching them and ourselves how to suffer and also how to grow.

 

"What are these tools, these techniques of suffering, these means of experiencing the pain of problems constructively that I call discipline? There are four: delaying of gratification, acceptance of responsibility, dedication to truth, and balancing. As will be evident, these are not complex tools whose application demands extensive training. To the contrary, they are simple tools, and almost all children are adept in their use by the age of ten. Yet presidents and kings will often forget to use them, to their own downfall. The problem lies not in the complexity of these tools but in the will to use them. For they are tools with which pain is confronted rather than avoided, and if one seeks to avoid legitimate suffering, then one will avoid the use of these tools. Therefore, after analyzing each of these tools, we shall...examine the will to use them, which is love."

 

 

 

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I have a friend, who was so wound up with his depression he turned to self harm, alcohol and substance abuse.

 

He would cut himself just to make it numb, or drink alcohol till he didnt care. He said that the rush you get from having just cut your arm is better than twenty ciggarrettes, and stops the depression for a while.

 

He has scars all up his arm, some pretty deep ones too.

 

Thankfully he has stopped everything now, he says he is still depressed but strangely not as badly as before, sadly though his personality has changed slightly, he was more fun to be around when he was self harming.. strangely.

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sadly though his personality has changed slightly, he was more fun to be around when he was self harming.. strangely.

Sounds like he's on prescription anti-depressants.

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"No, there isn't. But if it's better than diving into the crapload of problems they have, then so be it."

 

Yes so lets just cover up the problem and never confront it. In the end when you finally realize that you have to man up what did the cutting give to you? A bunch of scars that may not go away?

Again, that's really easy to say for someone who doesn't face those problems. People who actually need help rarely, if ever, say "I need help, I will go get help now." They go through a long path of hurting before they either realize they need help or finally seek help. Don't make claims about something you don't understand...

 

Read my edited above post. I went through having an abusive father who eventually got cleaned up after being imprisoned for 3 years and living at a 9k income for 3 years. No reason felt to cut myself and thats definitely alot worse then what most have it.

 

Yes sure there are people who have genuine problems. But going through high school i've noticed a third of my school seems to be doing what I stated above. I think its fairly safe to assume that all of these are not genuine problems warranting cutting. I went through a fairly long period of my life at a poverty level of income struggling not having new clothes hoping that my mom could keep the bills paid being made fun of in school for being scrubbish looking because at the time that was all I could do and this whole time I did not inflict self harm on myself. The reason why I say fakemos is because alot of the people I see that "have issues" don't have a damn clue what hard is. As long as you have clothes on your back a safe place to live basic necessities and parents who take care of you your life is not hard your life is not even close to hard. So when I see people who have highlights in their hair $50 jeans 5 different pairs of shoes and 30 different outfits I can't honestly fathom what would be so hard about their life and then when they have the audacity to openly post on their myspace my bf dumped me today I think I might kill myself for attention is absolutely maddening.

Hmm..... Coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, I can honestly tell you that I have never experienced that sort of hardship. I have never had to be concerned about money through my entire life, because I was fortunate enough to be born into a moderately wealthy family, and could in no way consider myself anything less than privileged. But I can tell you that there is, sadly, more to life than money. There are reasons why someone who seems to have every single thing in the world would have a reason to harm, or even kill, themselves, that go quite a bit deeper than "OMG my bf broke up with me!"

 

 

 

 

~CQ :eyebrows:

 

 

Well the reasons our opinions may differ is because I can see it from both perspectives.

 

Because now i'm out of the situation and my dad makes around 100k/yearly

 

But i've also been in the sucky situation as well.

Oh, you can see it from two situations, but can you see it from every angle? Evidently, you don't get it. You already stated that. You don't understand why someone would feel the need to harm themselves. You've been acting like the only things that count are the things you can see; that people who seem perfectly normal may not be just peachy fine. That's not true :P

 

 

 

 

 

~CQ ^_^

 

 

I know some people have genuine problems and i've stated that before. But I believe nothing is worse enough for you to mutilate your arm over absolutely nothing. I don't see how covering a problem never confronting could even be considered a way of handling things because realistically your not handling anything. You'll have to confront it eventually and if your not strong enough to handle it then what makes you be able to handle it later. This just leads to a behavior of never confronting any problems and just mutilating yourself to push it away until it comes again then repeating. And people who start overdosing on drugs that's even more idiotic because not only are you once again masking a problem its going to inevitably kill you eventually.

Edited by Emo_Nemo

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You'll have to confront it eventually and if your not strong enough to handle it then what makes you be able to handle it later.

:eyebrows:

 

You have no idea what you're talking about. Honestly, no idea.

 

 

Let's even take something basic like alcoholism as an example. They are hurt in life, they cover it with drinking. They drink for ages, killing themselves, hiding the pain. They hurt everyone else in their life with their drinking as well. Finally, they loose something important to them, and after maybe even 40 years of hiding the problem, they face it.

 

Just because someone can't face it at the time when they're hurting themselves doesn't mean they'll never be able to face it. Just because they will be able to face it in the future does not mean they'll be able to face it in the present.

 

And thats better than confronting the problem right then and there? Become an alcoholic abuse your family beat your wife wait until she finally picks up and leaves your ass then come up and say hmm maybe I should of handled this problem before.

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