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Why Mage And Range Are Underpowered.

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RIGHT.

This is kind of a rant, as too many people are complaining that the skills are "under powered"

 

First of all:

Range&mage are single skills. they are each independant.

Melee is 2/3 skills, Attack, defence and strenght.

 

Second:

Range&mage dont get combat up very much, so "weaker" player with low combat levels may really have very high range or mage, so they are slightly weaker as the combat is lower ( i know its confusing, but bear with me :wizard:)

Melee shoots up your combat level and therefore is more powerful.

 

Third:

If mage&range got more powerful, then they'd have to make it contribute to your combat level more, making your combat level higher.

With melee its already powerful, thats why it makes you go up lots.

 

forth:

Max hit with range is still 100/200 (please justify) and mage has cool effects (freezing, stat lowering and veng!)

Melee only has these things if your willing to spend!

 

Thats all for now, please understand what i'm trying to say. :box:

And I'm all for bringing out new range stuff :/ (armadyl 2nd wep anyone?)

 

Thanks for reading, Please post any questions or arguments. And sorry for any gramaitcal or spelling mistakes xD

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I'm not really getting what you're saying.

First: Range and mage can be combined with hp and defense if thats how you want to look at it

Second: If you're a low combat with high range and mage, then I think thats an advantage. It doesn't make them weaker, they chose to have low defense

Third: Combat level doesnt determine how "powerful" a player is, the stats do. The combat lvl just gives you an idea of what your odds are against other players and monsters

Fourth: It looks like you're ranting against melee now. And a range hit of 100/200 as you say is definitely not a low hit. A freezing spell will hold your opponent and that's excellent for pking

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Are you saying that you think Magic and Ranged should have more power?

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Range underpowered......no not really, mage possibly, range has the highest max hit of any style, and the rune cross bow is a rangers version of the godsword, which costs 20k, and even then the most exspensive bolt it like 8k i think. O, and if you go to a bh world, range tanks tend to be on top.

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I'm not really getting what you're saying.

First: Range and mage can be combined with hp and defense if thats how you want to look at it

Second: If you're a low combat with high range and mage, then I think thats an advantage. It doesn't make them weaker, they chose to have low defense

Third: Combat level doesnt determine how "powerful" a player is, the stats do. The combat lvl just gives you an idea of what your odds are against other players and monsters

Fourth: It looks like you're ranting against melee now. And a range hit of 100/200 as you say is definitely not a low hit. A freezing spell will hold your opponent and that's excellent for pking

 

I was leaving defence and hitpoints out of the matter because they CAN be combined with both melee, range and mage.

What i was getting at with the "low combat level = "weaker" player" is that runescape was designed to make the lower combat level's weaker, as to say.

And I'm glad to see you didn't rant about my 3rd comment :wizard:

 

Are you saying that you think Magic and Ranged should have more power?

 

And I do feel that mage and range need a powerup, but nothing in the way that will increase the combat levels faster.

 

Anymore questions?

Edited by killure_self

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First of all:

Range&mage are single skills. they are each independant.

Melee is 2/3 skills, Attack, defence and strenght.

Incorrect, what about prayer, hp, defence?

 

Second:

Range&mage dont get combat up very much, so "weaker" player with low combat levels may really have very high range or mage, so they are slightly weaker as the combat is lower ( i know its confusing, but bear with me )

Melee shoots up your combat level and therefore is more powerful.

Incorrect totally, if something advances your combat slowly then you will hit more when you get higher than a meleer of your level.

 

Third:

If mage&range got more powerful, then they'd have to make it contribute to your combat level more, making your combat level higher.

With melee its already powerful, thats why it makes you go up lots.

Incorrect, have you even tested this? With only 1 skill to train it is easy to get combat level up with range of mage, 2 levels of mage or range=1 combat level. 6 defence/prayer/hp=1 combat level. 1 attack+1strength=1 combat level

2 strength/attack=1 combat level, I rest my case.

 

forth:

Max hit with range is still 100/200 (please justify) and mage has cool effects (freezing, stat lowering and veng!)

Melee only has these things if your willing to spend!

Now your contradicting yourself.

 

I can't see really anything that is right.

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A maxed out range tank can be in the low 100s, a maxed melee is usally a good 120cmb+. Not to mention with range there are a variety of bolts which can hit through defence, or do massive damage with dragonfire, also mage levels and range levels do not "stack" with each other so a maxed range tank can have 94 mage and use vengeance as well.

 

A maxed out mage again can be in the low 100s with 99def. Mage's if ancients are used right can stack ancient spells dealing over 50 damage at a time, if done right with ice spells you can even trap rangers from attacking you in certain positions and also just stop meleers in their tracks, you can lower a meleer's attack and with full ahrim's their strength. If you wana get pricey you can buy a zuriel's staff which allows use of the miasmic spells which render melee and range almost useless due to the effect of halving their attack speed. :wizard:

Edited by cinos

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Range underpowered?

 

50s with Rune C'Bow, a possible max of 48-48 with D Bow, Broad Bolts which are massively cheap for their power, Ruby Bolts (e) which can hit OVER 9000!!! (100).

 

MAGE is the underpowered one.

-Weak max hit

-No good armour

-Can be beaten by Melee'ers

-Easily countered with a simple 30k Dragonhide set

-Runes for each cast needed are massive, and you don't get any back

-Completely useless for any type of PvM apart from Dagganoth-Whichever it is (Rex?)

-Hasn't had a real combat update since Ancients

 

Some people might say "OMG DEY CAN FREEZE AND LOWER STATS AND STUFFZ!!1!!!". ZGS, can freeze. Also, freezing is Mage's defence, just like Melee'er's defence is armour. Alot of Range/Melee weapons can lower stats. And the amount that Magic lowers stats is barely noticable at all.

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Hasn't had a real combat update since Ancients

 

As staves are no longer required for autocasting, we have granted some of the more special ones the ability to cause 10% more magic damage.

http://news.runescape.com/newsitem.ws?id=2172

 

I believe that is a real combat update, and a good one to 'repower' mage, you can hit constant 25+s with barrage so I wouldn't really need to see a reason why they need to hit high. In pvp worlds ppl still get tossed around even if they get blk dhide.

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RIGHT.

This is kind of a rant, as too many people are complaining that the skills are "under powered"

 

First of all:

Range&mage are single skills. they are each independant.

Melee is 2/3 skills, Attack, defence and strenght.

Melee is 2 skills, defense benefits all combat skills and is therefor independent. Also one can be trained without the other, it's called an obby mauler, one of the most effective pures around.

 

Second:

Range&mage dont get combat up very much, so "weaker" player with low combat levels may really have very high range or mage, so they are slightly weaker as the combat is lower ( i know its confusing, but bear with me :wizard:)

Melee shoots up your combat level and therefore is more powerful. Not true, range and mage get up combat more. 1 mage/range level = 1/3rd of a combat level, while 1 strength/attack level = 1/4th of a combat level. This is why obby maulers are so over powered.

Third:

If mage&range got more powerful, then they'd have to make it contribute to your combat level more, making your combat level higher.

With melee its already powerful, thats why it makes you go up lots.

No, as shown above, melee is more powerful with less combat gains, making range and mage a lose lose.

 

forth:

Max hit with range is still 100/200 (please justify) and mage has cool effects (freezing, stat lowering and veng!)

Melee only has these things if your willing to spend!

You can easily max into the 40s with a whip, and that range max hit is for pve (player versus element). Range is actually not too underpowered, I agree with you there, but magic? You haven't really said anything about the fail that is combat magic. Magic has a max hit of 30 and let me remind you that combat mages can't use vengeance because it's in a different spell book. In fact, they're the only class that can't. Ice barrage does not come close to someone with a dds in welfare, you just get dds specced and die. God spells are underpowered also, given that any decent ranger trashes them and you get cut up by dds specs.

 

Thats all for now, please understand what i'm trying to say. :box:

And I'm all for bringing out new range stuff :/ (armadyl 2nd wep anyone?)

 

Thanks for reading, Please post any questions or arguments. And sorry for any gramaitcal or spelling mistakes xD

You really said nothing about magic and allot of your points are just wrong. Disagree.

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Your not makin' sense bro.

 

(freezing, stat lowering and veng!)

Has it occurred to you that these spells in a PvP environment can be used in combination with range and melee?

 

For example when I did FOG I'd wear ahrims with an AGS. Freeze, drop their stats and easy kill. Or if they were tending not to stay stuck long switch to enchanted bolts.

 

In that circumstance, if I just used the GS I'd land bugger all hits unless they stood still. However just using magic would give them time to heal. Heavy AGS specs tend not to.

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Hasn't had a real combat update since Ancients

 

As staves are no longer required for autocasting, we have granted some of the more special ones the ability to cause 10% more magic damage.

http://news.runescape.com/newsitem.ws?id=2172

 

I believe that is a real combat update, and a good one to 'repower' mage, you can hit constant 25+s with barrage so I wouldn't really need to see a reason why they need to hit high. In pvp worlds ppl still get tossed around even if they get blk dhide.

Right, I did forget that. Only real benefit from that update though is the ability to autocast Ibans Blast and God Spells. The 10% max hit does just about nothing. Ice Barrage: 30, now 33. O WOW.

 

It's nowhere near enough to "repower" mage. It still has it's same problems. Low max hit, low defence, and the Melee'er in Dragonhide problem. Mage also lacks a KO ability.

Edited by -Siko-

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Hasn't had a real combat update since Ancients

 

As staves are no longer required for autocasting, we have granted some of the more special ones the ability to cause 10% more magic damage.

http://news.runescape.com/newsitem.ws?id=2172

 

I believe that is a real combat update, and a good one to 'repower' mage, you can hit constant 25+s with barrage so I wouldn't really need to see a reason why they need to hit high. In pvp worlds ppl still get tossed around even if they get blk dhide.

Right, I did forget that. Only real benefit from that update though is the ability to autocast Ibans Blast and God Spells. The 10% max hit does just about nothing. Ice Barrage: 30, now 33. O WOW.

 

It's nowhere near enough to "repower" mage. It still has it's same problems. Low max hit, low defence, and the Melee'er in Dragonhide problem. Mage also lacks a KO ability.

 

Sorry but mage was never meant to have a KO ability.Mage is all about burning your opponents food fast and freezing them at the spot so they can't escape.I do support on upgrading mage,its max hit is ridiculously low.Make the staves have a 20-25% extra damage and that's fixed.

Edited by Predator

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And what about PvM Magic? Something fully needs to be done about that too. Like having the cap removed, which would allow lower level spells to be used for training. After all, you don't use Dragon Arrows to train Ranged, do you? No, you use less powerful, cheaper ones. Also a way to get back our Runes is needed. And all these monsters with the random Magic resistance need to be changed.

 

Btw 20% would only be a max of extra 6 damage, I was thinkin' like 50%. Might make you think "OMGZ OVERPOWERED ICE BARRAGE HITTING 45!!1" But at 94 Strength or Ranged, you'd still hit higher. Magic IMO should be able to hit higher anyway, since they have to pay for runes, or RC them, which takes a while, you can't get them back, alot of runes needed for one cast, no defence on robes, being forced to rely on holding spells, somewhat slow casting speed, etc.

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mage really aint that bad they take off loads at quite low levels, but range needs rune arrows and yew bow for f2p anyway

Edited by RS Matt

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Magic should have a skill that stuns the target for 3 seconds not allowing the enemy heal.

 

well they have got one that holds em for 15secs thats more or less the same

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And what about PvM Magic? Something fully needs to be done about that too. Like having the cap removed, which would allow lower level spells to be used for training. After all, you don't use Dragon Arrows to train Ranged, do you? No, you use less powerful, cheaper ones. Also a way to get back our Runes is needed. And all these monsters with the random Magic resistance need to be changed.

 

Btw 20% would only be a max of extra 6 damage, I was thinkin' like 50%. Might make you think "OMGZ OVERPOWERED ICE BARRAGE HITTING 45!!1" But at 94 Strength or Ranged, you'd still hit higher. Magic IMO should be able to hit higher anyway, since they have to pay for runes, or RC them, which takes a while, you can't get them back, alot of runes needed for one cast, no defence on robes, being forced to rely on holding spells, somewhat slow casting speed, etc.

 

That would make farcasting too powerful,How about 20% and barrage have this special

 

Frozen Prison:There is a chance this special increases your opponents freeze time by 50%

 

OR

 

Icy ignorance:

 

This attack ignores your opponents magic defense and has a chance to do 70% more damage.

 

OR

 

Frozen Will:This attack has 10% chance to happen and if it hits your opponent it'l do a guaranteed 50 damage,and cause a ice disease dealing 3 damage every 1,5 seconds.

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To add some numbers to the "you can be lower combat level" thing:

Assuming 99 hp and 99 defence, range or mage at 99 gives you 97 combat, 99 attack and strength gives you 113 combat.

So, between 99 mage or range and 99 attack+99 strength, there are 16-17 levels of difference in combat level.

That argument doesn't mean much at high levels though.

Also, the hits of 100+ with range aren't possible on players, as that's assuming ruby bolts; ruby bolts can do up to 20% of your opponent's hp, which on a maxed player is 20. The people you see hitting 150 with it are attacking such things as steel titans and the bosses from soul wars; so, while range CAN hit that high, it's very rare that you'll be in a position to do so.

Mage, meanwhile, can hit an absolute max of 33 with the new staff update. Yes, that spell is area-of-effect and freezes for 20 seconds, but that's little consolation when you're 1v1 and the first one splashes. Also, while meleers and rangers can wear heavy armor which protects them against melee and range, or wear d'hide which protects them from magic, mages get pretty much squat aside from Ahrims and splitbark. Ahrims is roughly equal in attack and defence bonuses to black d'hide, but requires 70 defence instead of 40 and costs a lot more. Splitbark is worse.

Personally, I think mage armor needs some melee defence tacked on; you can explain it by saying that they are magically hardened to blades and maces or something.

I won't go into the relative training costs, because those are highly variable.

So, in the end, melee and range are probably balanced as is. Mage needs a damage and/or defence buff to compete with the other two outside of a multiperson situation.

 

Feel free to yell at me if I've gotten any of the facts wrong.

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