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Cattius

Bring Back Our Tech Support Team!

Poll  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think the tech support rank should be reintroduced?

    • Yes
      39
    • No
      13
    • Idk, I don't even remember them
      3


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I support this. What could possibly be the downsides?

 

The tech sub-forum of this forum is pretty big. It wouldn't hurt to just add some mods to regulate it. It would ease the time of the regular mods I think. We don't need like 10+, just a couple.

 

and on a side note, before I wrote tech sub-forum I wrote techno forum :).

-.- Yup, techno forum, the preserve of the nerds :)

 

Added.

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Being a former Tech Support member, looking back on when the rank was in play, it didn't really serve much purpose. I seldom actually used my moderation powers - in fact most of the time I was reporting posts to moderators just like anyone can do.

 

Also the Tech Support rank lead to a lot of people making a lot of posts in the tech section which seemed to be just so they could try and get the rank. Basically, it was just a lot of spam. I don't know if that's any different now, I'm too inactive to monitor it, but I would bet that the Tech Support role was the cause of it and now there are no wannabes spamming the place up.

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Being a former Tech Support member, looking back on when the rank was in play, it didn't really serve much purpose. I seldom actually used my moderation powers - in fact most of the time I was reporting posts to moderators just like anyone can do.

 

Also the Tech Support rank lead to a lot of people making a lot of posts in the tech section which seemed to be just so they could try and get the rank. Basically, it was just a lot of spam. I don't know if that's any different now, I'm too inactive to monitor it, but I would bet that the Tech Support role was the cause of it and now there are no wannabes spamming the place up.

Was there a reason for you not often using your moderation powers, e.g. did you just not have the time or were you discouraged from using them? Just out of interest.

 

Anyway I agree that the rank could cause people to spam in an attempt to be promoted, but tbh I think it would be worth it because there is already quite a lot of spam here (as long as everyone on the team did moderate).

Edited by Cattius

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Meh, as much as I missed Tech Support, judging by how people post in this section nowadays, I agree with Stobbo that it's just going to cause more people to spam up answers/brown nose their way to the "top".

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Being a former member of the Tech Support group, I cannot agree with bringing it back in the form it was previous. There were far too many issues with moderating the area. I don't want to de-privatize information so I'll stop there. The group was also intended to help with site projects, but that didn't extend past submitting information into the three databases. Sal is content with developing alone. Along with the title came the belief that these members were experts in the field and they always knew best. This wasn't true. I admit to making a few mistakes in some threads (but I still agree with my post in that laptop battery thread). Being not apart of the group for a year afterward (a few lapses in activity included) hasn't stopped me from giving the same level of advice as I did when I was in the group. Nothing is stopping anyone else from doing the same either. In the previous form, the Tech Support group was setup and executed poorly.

 

I don't see a problem with "wannabe mods". If they are helping out the community by posting intelligently and notifying Mods of problem areas, why does it matter if they strive to dress in green or orange? I see it as a strive to further helping the community, or at least they're doing so in the process.

Edited by Agent F

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But having it as a sort of identification of who has demonstrated a large amount of knowledge in the field could prove beneficial. For example I'm more likely to take anything Agent F or redmonke says about technology to be legit then a number of people I've never seen before. I can't agree with moderating abilities though, that would be fine in the hands of the mods with the report button.

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*sigh of relief* I thought Sals had become a dictatorship and my topic had been removed when I went to Tech Discussion and discovered it had disappeared -.-

 

But having it as a sort of identification of who has demonstrated a large amount of knowledge in the field could prove beneficial. For example I'm more likely to take anything Agent F or redmonke says about technology to be legit then a number of people I've never seen before. I can't agree with moderating abilities though, that would be fine in the hands of the mods with the report button.

Okay, I'll add you as a supporter with a note saying you don't think they should moderate. A lot of people seem to be taking this view; should I add it as another option to the poll?

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Although I feel this could be entirely possible. Why not make a group yourself. You can make underbanners and only allow people who know computers have that underbanner. It's the same effect of having a real Tech group, but a lot easier.

 

~Razorlike

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Although I feel this could be entirely possible. Why not make a group yourself. You can make underbanners and only allow people who know computers have that underbanner. It's the same effect of having a real Tech group, but a lot easier.

 

~Razorlike

Hmm, well it won't be ideal but seeing as the mods seem to be against the idea of an official rank, at least people will be able to see who gives good advice.

 

I'll create a break-off topic in Tech Discussion so we can nominate people for the unofficial team, although I won't be abandoning this topic by any means, the original idea may still happen -.-

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I think that there should be a tech team, but they should be treated like a lesser form of a distinguished member. Just to have a pip that lets people know that this person won't kill their computer.

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I think that there should be a tech team, but they should be treated like a lesser form of a distinguished member. Just to have a pip that lets people know that this person won't kill their computer.

 

I like this idea. It'd basically be a "distinguished tech member".

 

By the way, Cattius said that the Tech area"getting out of hand". I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but if it is getting out of hand, how come I've never seen a report originated by you? Or by any of the other people who are supporting this statement? The only member who usually reports stuff is Caboose. And yes, I know that timezones and other factors affect this.

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I think that there should be a tech team, but they should be treated like a lesser form of a distinguished member. Just to have a pip that lets people know that this person won't kill their computer.

 

I like this idea. It'd basically be a "distinguished tech member".

 

By the way, Cattius said that the Tech area"getting out of hand". I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but if it is getting out of hand, how come I've never seen a report originated by you? Or by any of the other people who are supporting this statement? The only member who usually reports stuff is Caboose. And yes, I know that timezones and other factors affect this.

Because, if I'm being completely honest, I often forget that the report feature is there -.- I'll try and remember to report bad posts from now on, instead of posting my advice and then saying "ignore the dangerous advice of the poster above" or whatever. Sorry..

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I think that there should be a tech team, but they should be treated like a lesser form of a distinguished member. Just to have a pip that lets people know that this person won't kill their computer.

 

I like this idea. It'd basically be a "distinguished tech member".

 

By the way, Cattius said that the Tech area"getting out of hand". I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but if it is getting out of hand, how come I've never seen a report originated by you? Or by any of the other people who are supporting this statement? The only member who usually reports stuff is Caboose. And yes, I know that timezones and other factors affect this.

Because, if I'm being completely honest, I often forget that the report feature is there -.- I'll try and remember to report bad posts from now on, instead of posting my advice and then saying "ignore the dangerous advice of the poster above" or whatever. Sorry..

 

No worries Cattius. I really did not mean to make it sound personal. Anyway, I always forget that the Active Reports are there. :3

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I support this. I think the Tech Team was incredibly helpful and they did a great job. I never thought the reason why they were removed was a good reason.

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I'm unable to find any usefulness in this topic. If someone not on the "team" tries to help me, I'm not going to ignore them. This just sounds like an excuse to say "I know more than you".

Edited by Gillis

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I'm unable to find any usefulness in this topic. If someone not on the "team" tries to help me, I'm not going to ignore them. This just sounds like an excuse to say "I'm know more than you".

I agree.

 

It's not as if we have people in this section purposely trying to break people's computers, and it's very rare that someone suggests to do something that actually causes more problems than originally stated.

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It's not as if we have people in this section purposely trying to break people's computers, and it's very rare that someone suggests to do something that actually causes more problems than originally stated.

I disagree. Whenever someone suggests reformatting the HDD and the topic is closed before I read it, I cringe. As mentioned in the other topic, some people feel better trusting the advice of someone who is allowed to use such a display. It's not going to work for everyone but it will be to some. You're never forced to take the advice of anyone here. It's just another opinion and always up to the end-user on which route to take.

 

Look at it this way. Person A posts a thread about a virus problem having said they could not remove it using their anti-virus client. Person B asks questions about the client and suggests digging down to the problem and trying to remove the threat. Person C says it's a waste of effort to try removing the threat and it's better off reformatting the drive. Person A doesn't know which one is truly best for him/her. Both suggestions have pros and cons, and even I could see either suggestion being a better path depending on the circumstances. Person A doesn't know enough to rely on the informational level, so they'll have to rely on a personal level. Which person do they trust more? A user displaying a banner like this may help some people decide. For others, it may not play any part in the decision at all.

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The banner does nothing. It has the same effect as the "official fakers of Sal's" banners. All it does is give off an "I know more than you" vibe.

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The banner does nothing. It has the same effect as the "official fakers of Sal's" banners. All it does is give off an "I know more than you" vibe.

I said it won't work for everyone and you just happen to be in this group. Be aware that not everyone shares your personality type and this could be helpful to others. Just disregard any such display if you ever ask for advice. There really isn't more to say about it.

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I support this. I think the Tech Team was incredibly helpful and they did a great job. I never thought the reason why they were removed was a good reason.

Post 28 and post 31 should address your concerns more than I could ever do, since they come from two former TS members.

 

The point is that it's hard to determine who's competent with what in the first place apart from the few obvious names, and even those few obvious names, while they're right 19 times out of 20, can always give wrong advice in good faith like everybody else: public threads are public so that everyone can step in and give advice and/or correct what others said. More often than not a solution to a problem is not a deterministic solution like two and two make four: sometimes there is space for opinions and such.

 

Moreover, TS members (if I'm not wrong) were PMed rather often by users who asked for advice, and, apart from being a slight annoyance for them, people always got a "wtf make a thread in tech support instead of PMing so that everyone can help you" response, because of what I said in the above paragraph.

 

Just to have a pip that lets people know that this person won't kill their computer.
As I said, that may not be the case. Michael Schumacher's driving abilities are out of question, but wouldn't you know how many cars he crashed? -.-

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Disclaimer: just about everything below is my opinion and me trying to solve the problems everyone has with this suggestion. Please do not get mad at me if I am dead wrong about something, but I would like to know if I am.

 

First, I don't think the Tech Talk section is overrun with spam. Sure, there are people with wrong conclusions, dumb opinions, etc, but that doesn't make it spam. And yes, I read every topic and nearly every post in those topics. There are some off-topic discussions, but not near as many as in the debate room. There are some idiots, but near as many as in RuneScape discussion. There are people who give stupid answers to questions, but not near as many as in RuneScape Questions.

 

Now, I'm not against Tech Support members having mod powers, but I don't think it's necessary. Yes, it would make the group more worth having if they did have mod powers, but I think it would keep the most people the happiest if they didn't.

 

Or here's another thought. How about if there's two parts to the tech group. The Tech Team, then 1 or 2 Tech Mods? Just a thought. I think it would solve the problems brought up here about tech support having mod powers, but it might not be worth maintaining.

 

Then about people spamming with bad advice trying to get into the group. I think a simple PM telling them that they are hurting their chances more than helping them would cause them to think twice. If they are still so unreasonable to keep giving pathetic advice, they're probably too stupid to keep from getting banned anyway. It seems that real idiots don't last real long on Sal's. They either leave because everyone hates them or they get themselves banned. Of course, I could be wrong, you old tech team members would be able to know better than me in this case. This makes me think of this rule posted here:

 

Do not post if you are not absolutely sure on how to solve the issue.

 

Well, seldom can people be completely sure of how to solve the issue, so if this rule were really followed many people wouldn't get help at all. How about if this rule were changed to 'Do not post unless you are absolutely sure you're posting good advice.' That would make mods able to take action against these spammers without waiting for them to break rules in some other area of the forum and without being compelled to take action against those who are really trying to help.

 

About getting PM'ed about problems instead of posting them in the Tech Support forum... That's a tough one to fix. Of course, we could make a rule about not PM'ing for support problems, but most people who would PM probably didn't read the rules closely anyway. They would get punished, but it probably wouldn't reduce their numbers much. I wasn't even nominated for the tech team in that topic, and I'm not so sure I should be even though I would like to be, but if I did become part of a tech support team I wouldn't mind telling people to post in the Tech Support section. It's just a minor annoyance, and minor annoyances always come with responsibility. I think if there's a fix to this it should be utilized, but I don't think this is a good reason to not have the tech support group. If people hate it so much, they can leave the group.

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Being a former Tech Support member, looking back on when the rank was in play, it didn't really serve much purpose. I seldom actually used my moderation powers - in fact most of the time I was reporting posts to moderators just like anyone can do.

 

Also the Tech Support rank lead to a lot of people making a lot of posts in the tech section which seemed to be just so they could try and get the rank. Basically, it was just a lot of spam. I don't know if that's any different now, I'm too inactive to monitor it, but I would bet that the Tech Support role was the cause of it and now there are no wannabes spamming the place up.

Was there a reason for you not often using your moderation powers, e.g. did you just not have the time or were you discouraged from using them? Just out of interest.

There was no discouragement to not use them at all; it was more the fact we didn't need to.

 

We couldn't stop people who break the rules anymore than you can, we were not moderators and could not give warnings (and to clarify, I wouldn't want to of warned people). We reported a lot of posts for the most part, and occasionally had to move or close a topic - something moderators are more than capable of.

 

 

Now, I'm not against Tech Support members having mod powers, but I don't think it's necessary. Yes, it would make the group more worth having if they did have mod powers, but I think it would keep the most people the happiest if they didn't.

The tech support team would only ever be given limited powers - no ability to edit posts or warn users. To give a team anymore would be silly, as they may as well be moderators (and if someone was promoted to tech support and have them powers, they may as well have them globally and be a moderator).

 

Or here's another thought. How about if there's two parts to the tech group. The Tech Team, then 1 or 2 Tech Mods? Just a thought. I think it would solve the problems brought up here about tech support having mod powers, but it might not be worth maintaining.

All of that for a relatively small part of Sal's. I'd say that is pretty much overkill.

 

Then about people spamming with bad advice trying to get into the group. I think a simple PM telling them that they are hurting their chances more than helping them would cause them to think twice. If they are still so unreasonable to keep giving pathetic advice, they're probably too stupid to keep from getting banned anyway. It seems that real idiots don't last real long on Sal's. They either leave because everyone hates them or they get themselves banned. Of course, I could be wrong, you old tech team members would be able to know better than me in this case. This makes me think of this rule posted here:

There were quite a few people at any one time who were so obviously dying to be tech support and posted a lot of rubbish because they thought it would help them. I don't think you can ever make that problem stop, no matter how simply you spell out to them what they are doing.

 

About getting PM'ed about problems instead of posting them in the Tech Support forum... That's a tough one to fix. Of course, we could make a rule about not PM'ing for support problems, but most people who would PM probably didn't read the rules closely anyway. They would get punished, but it probably wouldn't reduce their numbers much. I wasn't even nominated for the tech team in that topic, and I'm not so sure I should be even though I would like to be, but if I did become part of a tech support team I wouldn't mind telling people to post in the Tech Support section. It's just a minor annoyance, and minor annoyances always come with responsibility. I think if there's a fix to this it should be utilized, but I don't think this is a good reason to not have the tech support group. If people hate it so much, they can leave the group.

You'd think that people would listen and go post in the tech forum, but a large minority of people would reply something along the lines of "But you've replied so you may as well help me here" and just flat-out refuse to post in the tech forum. It's not a real issue though.

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I think that you should go through the voting. I don't have anything personal against Bob Sama, Stobbo, or Agent F, but I don't think that they're active enough.

Totally agree. That Stobbo guy isn't active enough for this. -.-

 

(But yeh, I am definitely not active enough to be included on this list).

Do you want me to remove you then? Because from the look of the poll a lot of people want you on there...:)

 

I'm unable to find any usefulness in this topic. If someone not on the "team" tries to help me, I'm not going to ignore them. This just sounds like an excuse to say "I'm know more than you".

Agreed.

 

The point of a community help forum is everyone helps everyone. If I go onto a forum about car maintenance, for example, I don't want a specialist team of people who are apparently better than the rest to help me. I want to here everyone's opinion - which is what a public help forum is about.

That isn't the idea though. Like I said in my above post it isn't supposed to be pretentious, and it isn't supposed to stop anyone who isn't on the team posting advice. Tbh the main purpose I had in mind for the Tech Team if it was reintroduced was to moderate posts, but that's not happening. Now it's just a sign of someone who routinely gives good advice and is a respected member of the community - like the original Tech Team, who I'll admit I was in awe of when I first joined :)

 

Also, can any mods let me know whether I'm allowed to call it the 'official' team or not?

Edited by Cattius

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I'm unable to find any usefulness in this topic. If someone not on the "team" tries to help me, I'm not going to ignore them. This just sounds like an excuse to say "I'm know more than you".

Agreed.

 

The point of a community help forum is everyone helps everyone. If I go onto a forum about car maintenance, for example, I don't want a specialist team of people who are apparently better than the rest to help me. I want to here everyone's opinion - which is what a public help forum is about.

Cattius is right, some will have a use for it, others won't, depending on their personality. Personally, I would rather have a guy who earned a pip telling me what to do with my computer than some random guy with no assurance that they're even really trying to help me.

 

As far as nominations, I wasn't on yesterday and all the real good ones were nominated before I got on. There are others around here who are good with computers (like myself), but I don't think they deserve the rank.

 

EDIT: Ah, Cattius beat me to it, but my reply still adds to what he said.

Edited by Yippee

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