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Briton To Be Executed For Smuggling Drugs

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What is wrong with believing that a man has to take responsibility for his own luggage in an airport and he is responsible for whatever he takes past customs, regardless of who handed him what?

 

You continue to ignore the possibility that the man suffers from a mental illness that handicaps his decision making process.

 

Will you answer one question for me? Assume for the moment that you are incorrect in your assumption and the man is not faking this mental illness. IF this is the case, is he responsible for his actions? Should he be executed?

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What is wrong with believing that a man has to take responsibility for his own luggage in an airport and he is responsible for whatever he takes past customs, regardless of who handed him what?

 

You continue to ignore the possibility that the man suffers from a mental illness that handicaps his decision making process.

 

Will you answer one question for me? Assume for the moment that you are incorrect in your assumption and the man is not faking this mental illness. IF this is the case, is he responsible for his actions? Should he be executed?

 

NO.

 

But that in itself does not excuse his actions either and he should be locked up [for his own good]

 

But you assume he is being truthful, you assume that he has a fully documented history of mental illness which I would love for you to point out. All I see is a short 3 line statement from a psychologist after the fact who has not even be able to get in to see him, by their own admission.

 

A medical report from Dr Peter Schaapveld, a forensic psychologist, said it was very likely that Mr Shaikh's strange behaviour would have been "influenced or caused by" a mental illness.

 

Likely does not mean conclusively.

 

This is the link that Synapsi gives earlier. In it you will find that it says that bi-polar is hard to diagnose and that there are no lab tests currently that can detect it, going on to state that a doctor will simply ask you a bunch of questions and get you to tell him/her that you have it.

 

How is bipolar disorder diagnosed?

 

Bipolar disorder is hard to diagnose. There are no lab tests for it. Instead, your doctor or therapist will ask detailed questions about what kind of symptoms you have and how long they last. To be diagnosed with bipolar I disorder, you must have had a manic episode lasting at least a week (less if you had to be hospitalized). During this time, you must have had three or more symptoms of mania, such as needing less sleep, being more talkative, behaving wildly or irresponsibly in activities that could have serious outcomes, or feeling as if your thoughts are racing. In bipolar II disorder, the manic episode may be less severe and shorter.

 

Your urine and blood may be tested to rule out other problems that could be causing your symptoms.

 

Anyone who has read a book has information on the types of questions asked, therefore are you saying that he is absolutely not simply inventing an illness to shift blame from himself?

 

This is the underlying question and it always has been, before everyone heard the words "mental illness" and clouded the issue, was he actually diagnosed BEFORE he went off to Poland and China with bi-polar?

 

If this website that is campaigning for him had never been told of any kind of illness no one would care one way or the other, just another drug smuggler and good riddance. Until someone comes up with real proof that he had this illness before he got caught and needed to use it as an underlying reason for carrying drugs we will keep going round in circles like we have for the last 50 posts.

 

I myself could go off to China, smuggle a load of drugs and claim I have bi-polar but until I can hand over a document from my doctor PROVING I have been at least treated for it then it is only words, nothing more. Thats the great thing about legalities, you need proof which no one has yet presented.

Edited by Sparhawke

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But the fact is that almost EVERYONE whines mental incapability when they get caught, or that someone made them do it. If he truly was incapable of thinking for himself then why the hell was he let out of the mental hospital and able to take a flight?

 

It is called personal responsibility.

 

Everyone knows that certain countries have differing laws and punishments, and lets face it...how in the world do you manage to overlook 4 kilo bricks of heroin??!

 

So, you are telling me that were you faced with the option of certain death or simply owning up to it, that you would plead guilty anyway?

I call your bluff.

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There are worse things than death, being locked up in a chinese prison for decades is one thing.

 

But your statement proves my point exactly Jethraw, he doesn't really have that much to lose does he?

 

Another question that has been ignored by these little statements on the internet, how exactly did a Chinese drug smuggling gang manage to target him from Poland through a guy named simply as "Carlos"?

Edited by Sparhawke

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There are worse things than death, being locked up in a chinese prison for decades is one thing.

 

But your statement proves my point exactly Jethraw, he doesn't really have that much to lose does he?

 

Certain death makes one do crazy things; and I still call you out for "taking responsibility" in full.

Life is always a heavy price to pay, no matter what.

The man is not terminally ill, n'or is he close to death's door from old age.

So in short, yes, he does have a lot to lose.

 

And I don't believe you could honestly tell me you could face up to a death charge with dignity and 100% responsibility.

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If I chose to take the risk of carrying drugs over international borders I know the penalties don't I since I am fully capable of rational thought, even though it may not be up to other peoples standards of coherency.

 

I also know how bad it is to carry anybodies luggage for them under any circumstances and particularly if you are not that bothered to find out what you might be carrying.

 

On the one hand though assuming I did take leave of my neurons and carry drugs for someone else you have to weigh up 3 things:

 

A) You are screwed either way.

 

B) You have been sentenced to a death penalty.

 

C) You can either complain and hope to get it changed to 40 years in a hell prison where you might be shanked after 39 or simply get it over with.

 

Which brings me to another question, would you prefer an average of 15 years sitting on death row where you know the exact time of your death or would you prefer to appeal to make sure you actually get it over and done with without simply making lawyers and appeal court judges fat on your unfortunate situation?

 

Until you have sat in a prison for 10 years with nothing but a blank wall to amuse yourself you cannot really make that call.

Edited by Sparhawke

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I have been saying there is no sufficient evidence to say the man can be legally termed incompetent all along.

 

It is one thing to be insane, it is quite another to simply invent and use that after the fact that you have been caught.

 

For the record, if he can be proved to be clinically "insane" actually long before he went to China then obviously he cannot be held accountable for his actions with the death penalty, I simply think he is latching onto it as a way of avoiding it.

 

Are you saying we have been arguing two very different points all last night and you didn't even realise it? lol

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Of course a truly incompetent man would still be wondering when his headliner show in Shanghai will be appearing and why everyone is talking about drugs...on this point he is strangely silent no? -.-

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What is wrong with believing that a man has to take responsibility for his own luggage in an airport and he is responsible for whatever he takes past customs, regardless of who handed him what?

 

You continue to ignore the possibility that the man suffers from a mental illness that handicaps his decision making process.

 

Will you answer one question for me? Assume for the moment that you are incorrect in your assumption and the man is not faking this mental illness. IF this is the case, is he responsible for his actions? Should he be executed?

 

NO.

 

But that in itself does not excuse his actions either and he should be locked up [for his own good]

 

But you assume he is being truthful, you assume that he has a fully documented history of mental illness which I would love for you to point out. All I see is a short 3 line statement from a psychologist after the fact who has not even be able to get in to see him, by their own admission.

 

My whole argument is that you're choosing the much riskier side. I am not saying the man is affected by a mental illness, I'm simply acknowledging the possibility of it, considering the statements of doctors who have examined him. You have denied it from the beginning, never even allowing for the chance that you might be wrong in your opinion. That's a risky chance to take, seeing as you have never personally examined the man, and no doctor has done so with the conclusion that he is perfectly capable.

 

It's called reasonable doubt. The fact that no doctor has previously diagnosed him with bi-polar disorder is not reason enough to find him guilty. If (notice I said if) he is indeed bi-polar, it is simply unfortunate that it was never diagnosed previously. As the article said, bi-polar disorder is hard to diagnose.

 

In short: Seeing the limited knowledge we have, giving the benefit of the doubt is much safer that supporting this man's execution.

 

Although it is comforting that I simply misunderstood you when I thought you were saying that people with mental illnesses that cause them to be incompetent should still be subject to execution. Sorry for the misunderstanding. -.-

 

EDIT:

Of course a truly incompetent man would still be wondering when his headliner show in Shanghai will be appearing and why everyone is talking about drugs...on this point he is strangely silent no?

 

Do we have any statements whatsoever from him? If we don't, how can we tell what he is wondering?

Edited by heb0

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Not to come down on any one side of this discussion but I have some questions in this regard:

 

1. If, as they say, this man was so bi-polar as to not be able to conduct himself appropriately -- how in the hell did he even get a passport to travel and why would anyone let him travel abroad?

 

2. Was this his first and only trip to China? If not, had he conducted similar trips in the past where he took someone else's luggage on a plane from one part of China to another?

 

I am not seeing anything in these stories and what-not that speaks to these matters. Am I missing something?

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You're not denied a passport if you're bi-polar.

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Although it is comforting that I simply misunderstood you when I thought you were saying that people with mental illnesses that cause them to be incompetent should still be subject to execution. Sorry for the misunderstanding. -.-

 

Of course a truly incompetent man would still be wondering when his headliner show in Shanghai will be appearing and why everyone is talking about drugs...on this point he is strangely silent no?

 

Do we have any statements whatsoever from him? If we don't, how can we tell what he is wondering?

 

No, I don't believe those with genuine mental illnesses are liable for the actions of others but it is all down to proving such. Obviously one of the most famous disabled men on the planet is Dr. Hawking of Cambridge university and he cannot even move a muscle unaided...to say that he would be responsible for packing his own bags and it is up to him what subsequently gets found in them would be a terrific blunder.

 

The whole problem all of us have with any of this is that we have absolutely sod all to go on, we have heard he has been caught carrying drugs into China and that it is claimed from some mysterious sources that he suffers from bi-polar disorder but in the two years it has taken for it to get this far we have heard nothing.

 

I am simply making my conclusions on the evidence that I have, that he got arrested with what amounts to a massive load of heroin and only then decided to mention he has an illness that negates culpability yet there exists absolutely no previous documentation to this fact anywhere. Seconded by the fact that he mysteriously found his way into the hands of drug barons who paid for a 5 star hotel, in cash??!

 

And then bought him a fliight to Shanghai in order to put on a headliner show, when no one has ever heard of him and he has no singing experience at all and not even the fame of being kicked off x-factor to fall back on?

 

None of it adds up.

Edited by Sparhawke

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I'm agreeing with Spar here. (I only read the first few posts -.-)

 

If the guy has a problem, uses the excuse and is scott free, what is to stop him doing it again?

 

Though, I also agree it shouldn't be death for anyone. Just a hefty prison sentence.

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1. If, as they say, this man was so bi-polar as to not be able to conduct himself appropriately -- how in the hell did he even get a passport to travel and why would anyone let him travel abroad?

 

There are mental illnesses that affect your decision making processes and social skills but allow you to be otherwise functional.

 

The whole problem all of us have with any of this is that we have absolutely sod all to go on

 

Exactly. And that makes it rash to automatically assume he is faking his mental illness while leaving no room for doubt.

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Okay let's make this really simple, taking the article (regardless of how exaggerated it may be) as relatively accurate. There are several consequences from the two actions that could happen. I've even made a little chart for you.

 

20zdzt0.png

 

If the man is guilty, as in he willingly committed said actions, he is given a "fair punishment" by the laws of China, it's a blow albeit a rather small one against smugglers and obviously he won't do it again.

 

If the man is "innocent" meaning he was not capable of making rational choices due to a mental illness as opposed to excess of alcoholic substances, fatigue or drugs, we are left with a man, who suffered with mental difficulties, dead with a great injustice being served. Political tensions between western nations, especially the UK would worsen and potentially civil unrest in the form of protests and so forth. You saw the stir raised because Gary McKinnon was extradited - thing of a country killing a foreign national.

 

On the other hand and he is sent back to the UK for a fair trial, he may be placed in prison if found guilty but if proven "innocent" he will be given the help he needs.

 

Now the risk of him being innocent and being killed by far is much more damaging than the risk of him being guilty and being executed. It's far safer to take the "back to the UK" path.

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Well people die that's life guys

You sir, are the epitome of awesome.

 

But why would he want to smuggle drugs anyway...? It seems that most people get caught whilst doing that.

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Well people die that's life guys

You sir, are the epitome of awesome.

 

But why would he want to smuggle drugs anyway...? It seems that most people get caught whilst doing that.

 

ye i meen this isnt important lol moer pppl die tan 1 person evryday lol y shud we care bout tis??5!1

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Rather than sort through 6 pages, I'm going to ask a simple question.

 

Is there any proof that this man affiliated with Chinese gangs?

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Some new things:

 

The man has been executed

He had had no idea that he was going to be executed until 48 hours before the execution.

 

He was in such a state he could not speak properly.

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Rather than sort through 6 pages, I'm going to ask a simple question.

 

Is there any proof that this man affiliated with Chinese gangs?

No -.-.

 

Some new things:

 

The man has been executed

He had had no idea that he was going to be executed until 48 hours before the execution.

 

He was in such a state he could not speak properly.

 

That is a sad thing to hear and you know this story is going to be ignored by most people.

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Some new things:

 

The man has been executed

He had had no idea that he was going to be executed until 48 hours before the execution.

 

He was in such a state he could not speak properly.

 

Very sad to hear. -.- I guess we'll never know for sure whether or not he was guilty, but time for further observation of his mental state would have been more just.

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It merely depends on the size of this guys disability. My dad is disabled but he is still just as average as any other person on the street. To be honest it's tough, you should obey the law especially when you are in a foreign country and if you break the law there you can't expect to be bailed out by your home country. Problem is, news stories never give a full story so for all I know I just promoted killing a seriously mentally handicapped person. It is a little bit convenient that this person just happens to be handicapped.

 

Magical, your chart is extremely biased. It's so biased it doesn't recognize anything outside of this case.

Edited by One

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Political tensions between western nations, especially the UK would worsen and potentially civil unrest in the form of protests and so forth. You saw the stir raised because Gary McKinnon was extradited - thing of a country killing a foreign national.

 

It would be awesome to watch a war between Europe and China.

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Political tensions between western nations, especially the UK would worsen and potentially civil unrest in the form of protests and so forth. You saw the stir raised because Gary McKinnon was extradited - thing of a country killing a foreign national.

 

It would be awesome to watch a war between Europe and China.

Yeah! Hundreds of thousands of people dying. Awesome!

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More like millions, it would be the best war since WW2. Hundreds of battles, explosions, moving stories, badass stories, a slew of new games and I really want to know what European military(s) are going to to with all those Segways they purchased.

 

My honest opinion is that Country A has no Right to interfere with Country B's policies, unless country B's policies are detrimental to Country A. And if you are traveling, you should realize that outside your home country, your laws do not apply.

 

If a country makes it routine practice to cannibalize anybody they feel like within their borders, then rape the leftovers, then a traveler shouldn't complain if they get eaten and neither should anybody else, its the traveler's fault for traveling!

 

Also counts if its not routine practice and they were just being jerks, a traveler should take responsibility for their own actions, such as leaving their borders.

 

International law should only apply to the nations that accept it, of course if those same nations tick off the rest of the world and get bombed to bits for doing stuff like that, its their fault for doing stuff they knew would tick other nations off.

 

So in short, this whole incident is the fault of the following

 

The traveler for traveling.

 

China for not thinking diplomatically.

 

Briton for believing China should adhere to their principles.

Edited by Demutig_wind

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