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Hitler

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I am not sure if Hitler was a pro speaker to begin with. I heard he learned a lot about captivating listeners from some other guy.

 

Not sure if Hitler completely relied on this guy or just wanted to improve his speaking.

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He pursued a course of action in the course of about a decade that left his country war-devastated, and cost Germany many millions of people. How does that make him a great leader or man, even completely ignoring the abhorrent policies and atrocities he put into action?

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If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

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If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

 

If he had not gone on a hellish rampage and locked up and murdered millions, and started World War II, he would he been a pretty good person.

 

Yet he did those things, so I classify him as a nutcase. Was he at times brilliant? Yes. He restored Germany back to her power (and then some) before World War II. But he also started World War II, rounded up alot of people and had them killed in horrible ways. So he was evil, too.

 

~John

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I am not sure if Hitler was a pro speaker to begin with. I heard he learned a lot about captivating listeners from some other guy.

 

Not sure if Hitler completely relied on this guy or just wanted to improve his speaking.

People just went to DAP meetings and it didn't capture their imagination really.

But apparently, Hitler spoke one time, and although he was really nervous, smashed it, and he became their leader soon after.

 

If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

Even though in 1939, he had still passed a number of the Nuremburg laws which dehumanised Jews. He'd locked away people with opposite views to him, and he'd encouraged violence towards the 'inferior'. That isn't the sign of a great political leader in my opinion.

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Can't he be both?

 

He was a very smart and manipulative man, but thinking that minorities were to blame for the german downfall? Bonkers.

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Can't he be both?

 

He was a very smart and manipulative man, but thinking that minorities were to blame for the german downfall? Bonkers.

Well yes, a genius just means you're very good, the creme de la creme at something, and he was the best orator. So he can be both, but I think the OP means as in Great or Not Great.

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Can't he be both?

 

He was a very smart and manipulative man, but thinking that minorities were to blame for the german downfall? Bonkers.

Well yes, a genius just means you're very good, the creme de la creme at something, and he was the best orator. So he can be both, but I think the OP means as in Great or Not Great.

 

Well i stand by the fact he was a great man for being smart and manipulative and had the whole country (whether they wanted to or not :rolleyes:) worshipping him, and a not so great man for thinking the minorities were to blame for the german downfall.

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Can't he be both?

 

He was a very smart and manipulative man, but thinking that minorities were to blame for the german downfall? Bonkers.

Well yes, a genius just means you're very good, the creme de la creme at something, and he was the best orator. So he can be both, but I think the OP means as in Great or Not Great.

 

Well i stand by the fact he was a great man for being smart and manipulative and had the whole country (whether they wanted to or not :rolleyes:) worshipping him, and a not so great man for thinking the minorities were to blame for the german downfall.

You can't be both great and not great. You're just.. meh.. :)

 

Although to be honest, he was more bad than good.

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If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

 

Well -- except that he was already a totalitarian leader who was, by 1939, already responsible for numerous racist attacks, physical beatings, torture and other affronts to human rights, including rounding up certain individuals deemed undesirable to his perfect society and housing them in ghettos ...

 

:rolleyes:

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If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

 

Well -- except that he was already a totalitarian leader who was, by 1939, already responsible for numerous racist attacks, physical beatings, torture and other affronts to human rights, including rounding up certain individuals deemed undesirable to his perfect society and housing them in ghettos ...

 

:rolleyes:

Housing 'undesirables' didn't happen until 1940, I believe. It was certainly one of the last policies before the Holocaust began in 1942.

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Ok so, in this Topic. We will discuss was Adolf Hitler, Genius, or bonkers?

 

I say, Genius. Sure i am against the Holocaust, but think about it. Anyone who knew there history would know Germany was a ABSOLUTE wreck after the First World War. People were starving, Homeless, after 4 years of war.

 

Germany was only allowed 100,000 Soldiers, no air force, and maybe a couple of Battleships. What if France decided to take over Germany? How would they survive? So Hitler came along, gathered some guys, and created the Nazi Fascist Party. Then he built a military force. What did the world do. Squat. Reason being, they were scared. But they let Hitler roll his snowball into he had one giant Snowball. That Snowball started to steamroll over smaller European countries. Then came the Second World War. And until he attacked Russia, and declared war on America. Hitler was unstoppable. He was at the Gates of Moscow, and Britain were close to surrender. I no need go on. Have your say!

He did not declare war on America.

 

Personally, I think he was a complete idiot.

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He built up a Germany that could only survive at war. There was no long-term prosperity for Germany with his policies, and for that reason he was a failure. That's ignoring all the crazy shizzle he did.

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If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

 

Well -- except that he was already a totalitarian leader who was, by 1939, already responsible for numerous racist attacks, physical beatings, torture and other affronts to human rights, including rounding up certain individuals deemed undesirable to his perfect society and housing them in ghettos ...

 

:rolleyes:

Housing 'undesirables' didn't happen until 1940, I believe. It was certainly one of the last policies before the Holocaust began in 1942.

 

I guess you've never heard of The Night of the Broken Glass?

 

Oh -- and for those of you who want to consider whether Hitler was "great" or not, perhaps you should bone up on your history a little more?

 

You know, perhaps you should take a look at say, the laws invoked against the Jews, by Hitler's government prior to 1939 ...

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Can't he be both?

 

He was a very smart and manipulative man, but thinking that minorities were to blame for the german downfall? Bonkers.

Well yes, a genius just means you're very good, the creme de la creme at something, and he was the best orator. So he can be both, but I think the OP means as in Great or Not Great.

 

Well i stand by the fact he was a great man for being smart and manipulative and had the whole country (whether they wanted to or not :rolleyes:) worshipping him, and a not so great man for thinking the minorities were to blame for the german downfall.

You can't be both great and not great. You're just.. meh.. :)

 

Although to be honest, he was more bad than good.

 

What the hell defines great? He was a smart man but he did horrible thing.

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If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

 

Well -- except that he was already a totalitarian leader who was, by 1939, already responsible for numerous racist attacks, physical beatings, torture and other affronts to human rights, including rounding up certain individuals deemed undesirable to his perfect society and housing them in ghettos ...

 

:rolleyes:

Housing 'undesirables' didn't happen until 1940, I believe. It was certainly one of the last policies before the Holocaust began in 1942.

 

I guess you've never heard of The Night of the Broken Glass?

 

Oh -- and for those of you who want to consider whether Hitler was "great" or not, perhaps you should bone up on your history a little more?

 

You know, perhaps you should take a look at say, the laws invoked against the Jews, by Hitler's government prior to 1939 ...

I have heard of Kristallnacht - I've been learning about it today. They didn't move Jews to ghettoes, then though. That was towards the tail end of '39, maybe the start of 40 - when Jews could be evicted. Kristallnacht was in 1938, and while there is proof it was started by Nazis, we can't say for sure.

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His leadership skills don't make up for his war crimes. He was a horrible man, and that's all.

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He did not declare war on America.

 

Huh, what?

 

The Three Powers have therefore concluded the following Agreement, which was signed in Berlin today:

 

"In their unshakable determination not to lay down arms until the joint war against the U.S.A. and England reaches a successful conclusion, the German, Italian, and Japanese Governments have agreed on the following points:

 

Article I. Germany, Italy and Japan will wage the common war forced upon them by the U.S.A. and England with all the means of power at their disposal, to a victorious conclusion.

 

Article II. Germany, Italy and Japan undertake not to conclude an armistice or peace with the U.S.A. or with England without complete mutual understanding.

 

Article III. Germany, Italy and Japan will continue the closest cooperation even after the victorious conclusion of the war in order to bring about a just new order in the sense of the Tri-Partite Pact concluded by them on the 27th September 1940.

 

Article IV. This Agreement comes into force immediately after signature and remains in force as long as the Tri-Partite Pact of 27th September 1940. The Signatory Powers will confer in time before this period ends about the future form of the co-operation provided for in Article III of this Agreement."

 

Damn -- that sure sounds like a declaration of war to me ... :rolleyes:

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He did not declare war on America.

 

Huh, what?

 

The Three Powers have therefore concluded the following Agreement, which was signed in Berlin today:

 

"In their unshakable determination not to lay down arms until the joint war against the U.S.A. and England reaches a successful conclusion, the German, Italian, and Japanese Governments have agreed on the following points:

 

Article I. Germany, Italy and Japan will wage the common war forced upon them by the U.S.A. and England with all the means of power at their disposal, to a victorious conclusion.

 

Article II. Germany, Italy and Japan undertake not to conclude an armistice or peace with the U.S.A. or with England without complete mutual understanding.

 

Article III. Germany, Italy and Japan will continue the closest cooperation even after the victorious conclusion of the war in order to bring about a just new order in the sense of the Tri-Partite Pact concluded by them on the 27th September 1940.

 

Article IV. This Agreement comes into force immediately after signature and remains in force as long as the Tri-Partite Pact of 27th September 1940. The Signatory Powers will confer in time before this period ends about the future form of the co-operation provided for in Article III of this Agreement."

 

Damn -- that sure sounds like a declaration of war to me ... :rolleyes:

Germany only went to war with America because America entered the war against Japan who were on Germany's side. Hitler had to go to war with them to help the Japanese.

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If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

 

Well -- except that he was already a totalitarian leader who was, by 1939, already responsible for numerous racist attacks, physical beatings, torture and other affronts to human rights, including rounding up certain individuals deemed undesirable to his perfect society and housing them in ghettos ...

 

:rolleyes:

Housing 'undesirables' didn't happen until 1940, I believe. It was certainly one of the last policies before the Holocaust began in 1942.

 

I guess you've never heard of The Night of the Broken Glass?

 

Oh -- and for those of you who want to consider whether Hitler was "great" or not, perhaps you should bone up on your history a little more?

 

You know, perhaps you should take a look at say, the laws invoked against the Jews, by Hitler's government prior to 1939 ...

I have heard of Kristallnacht - I've been learning about it today. They didn't move Jews to ghettoes, then though. That was towards the tail end of '39, maybe the start of 40 - when Jews could be evicted. Kristallnacht was in 1938, and while there is proof it was started by Nazis, we can't say for sure.

 

Your dates are all screwed up.

 

Buchenwald was completed in 1937 and began operations that same year.

 

Hell -- they invaded Poland in September 1939. By October 1939, they had already set up the Jewish Ghettos within Poland itself.

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If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

 

Well -- except that he was already a totalitarian leader who was, by 1939, already responsible for numerous racist attacks, physical beatings, torture and other affronts to human rights, including rounding up certain individuals deemed undesirable to his perfect society and housing them in ghettos ...

 

:rolleyes:

Housing 'undesirables' didn't happen until 1940, I believe. It was certainly one of the last policies before the Holocaust began in 1942.

 

I guess you've never heard of The Night of the Broken Glass?

 

Oh -- and for those of you who want to consider whether Hitler was "great" or not, perhaps you should bone up on your history a little more?

 

You know, perhaps you should take a look at say, the laws invoked against the Jews, by Hitler's government prior to 1939 ...

I have heard of Kristallnacht - I've been learning about it today. They didn't move Jews to ghettoes, then though. That was towards the tail end of '39, maybe the start of 40 - when Jews could be evicted. Kristallnacht was in 1938, and while there is proof it was started by Nazis, we can't say for sure.

 

Your dates are all screwed up.

 

Buchenwald was completed in 1937 and began operations that same year.

 

Hell -- they invaded Poland in September 1939. By October 1939, they had already set up the Jewish Ghettos within Poland itself.

Just checked my dates:

Jews could be evicted from their homes for no reason in April '39. So I got the '39 part right. I had a feeling it was '40 though. When that happened, they were moved to the ghettoes. Kristallnacht was a different event, and looking at my class work, it was on the night of the 9th of November 1938, to the early hours of the 10th.

These are dates on various work sheets that my teacher gave me, because they need to be learnt for my exam on life in Nazi Germany. I doubt they would be wrong. Also, 'bone up my history' - I've been learning about this since about November last year (albeit on this specific topic of the Nuremburg laws since a week ago), and I appreciate Hitler wasn't great but he had his talents.

Edited by Scrum

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Guest Emanick
Ok so, in this Topic. We will discuss was Adolf Hitler, Genius, or bonkers?

 

I say, Genius. Sure i am against the Holocaust, but think about it. Anyone who knew there history would know Germany was a ABSOLUTE wreck after the First World War. People were starving, Homeless, after 4 years of war.

 

Germany was only allowed 100,000 Soldiers, no air force, and maybe a couple of Battleships. What if France decided to take over Germany? How would they survive? So Hitler came along, gathered some guys, and created the Nazi Fascist Party. Then he built a military force. What did the world do. Squat. Reason being, they were scared. But they let Hitler roll his snowball into he had one giant Snowball. That Snowball started to steamroll over smaller European countries. Then came the Second World War. And until he attacked Russia, and declared war on America. Hitler was unstoppable. He was at the Gates of Moscow, and Britain were close to surrender. I no need go on. Have your say!

He did not declare war on America.

 

Personally, I think he was a complete idiot.

 

He technically declared war on America, but under pressure. He didn't want war with America, because it would serve absolutely no purpose and was the thing most likely to cause Nazi Germany's destruction.

 

I'm sure he wanted America crushed under a Nazi heel eventually, but really, declaring war on it was not in his "To-Do" list at any point in 1941 or earlier.

 

If Hitler had committed suicide in 1939, prior to declaring war, he would have been the greatest political leader the world has seen because he actually carried out everything he promised and restored Germany after her heavy losses from the first world war; that's food for thought.

 

Well -- except that he was already a totalitarian leader who was, by 1939, already responsible for numerous racist attacks, physical beatings, torture and other affronts to human rights, including rounding up certain individuals deemed undesirable to his perfect society and housing them in ghettos ...

 

:rolleyes:

Housing 'undesirables' didn't happen until 1940, I believe. It was certainly one of the last policies before the Holocaust began in 1942.

 

I guess you've never heard of The Night of the Broken Glass?

 

Oh -- and for those of you who want to consider whether Hitler was "great" or not, perhaps you should bone up on your history a little more?

 

You know, perhaps you should take a look at say, the laws invoked against the Jews, by Hitler's government prior to 1939 ...

 

You're thinking of a different definition of "great." We all know Hitler was a despicable, twisted person who murdered millions of people.

 

We're thinking in terms of "great" as in "Napoleon was a great general," or "Rome was a great empire." A great leader of Germany who greatly built up its power, Hitler was. A great person, he was not.

 

@ Scrum: I'm almost positive the systematic killing of Jews and other "undesirables" began shortly after Kristallnacht, if not before. :)

Edited by Emanick

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A great leader of Germany who greatly built up its power, Hitler was.

A great leader does not leave a dead country in his wake.

It's hard not to when your armies are being completely decimated.

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A great leader of Germany who greatly built up its power, Hitler was.

A great leader does not leave a dead country in his wake.

It's hard not to when your armies are being completely decimated.

And a great leader does not start a war that results in his army being completely decimated.

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@ Scrum: I'm almost positive the systematic killing of Jews and other "undesirables" began shortly after Kristallnacht, if not before. :rolleyes:

No, Kristallnacht was in 1938, the killing of Jews began in 1941/42. There was a euthanasia program in around '39/'40 which killed the handicapped, but that ended publicly in around '41, even though it still carried on.

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