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Ok so, in this Topic. We will discuss was Adolf Hitler, Genius, or bonkers?

 

I say, Genius. Sure i am against the Holocaust, but think about it. Anyone who knew there history would know Germany was a ABSOLUTE wreck after the First World War. People were starving, Homeless, after 4 years of war.

 

Germany was only allowed 100,000 Soldiers, no air force, and maybe a couple of Battleships. What if France decided to take over Germany? How would they survive? So Hitler came along, gathered some guys, and created the Nazi Fascist Party. Then he built a military force. What did the world do. Squat. Reason being, they were scared. But they let Hitler roll his snowball into he had one giant Snowball. That Snowball started to steamroll over smaller European countries. Then came the Second World War. And until he attacked Russia, and declared war on America. Hitler was unstoppable. He was at the Gates of Moscow, and Britain were close to surrender. I no need go on. Have your say!

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Hitler didn't declare war on America.

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Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't he just take over the political party he was already a member of? :rolleyes:

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Ok so, in this Topic. We will discuss was Adolf Hitler, Genius, or bonkers?

 

I say, Genius. Sure i am against the Holocaust, but think about it. Anyone who knew there history would know Germany was a ABSOLUTE wreck after the First World War. People were starving, Homeless, after 4 years of war.

 

Germany was only allowed 100,000 Soldiers, no air force, and maybe a couple of Battleships. What if France decided to take over Germany? How would they survive? So Hitler came along, gathered some guys, and created the Nazi Fascist Party. Then he built a military force. What did the world do. Squat. Reason being, they were scared. But they let Hitler roll his snowball into he had one giant Snowball. That Snowball started to steamroll over smaller European countries. Then came the Second World War. And until he attacked Russia, and declared war on America. Hitler was unstoppable. He was at the Gates of Moscow, and Britain were close to surrender. I no need go on. Have your say!

First off, Hitler could have done none of that without 3 events:

The first of which was the Munich Putsch. This was when he and his private army tried to take over Munich. They did it, but nothing came of it and he got slung in jail. That's where he wrote Mein Kampf, where he outlined his plans. He also knew he would have to take over by democratical means.

The second was Gustav von Stresemann's death. Von Stresemann was the chancellor of Germany inaround 1923, but also did other jobs up until his death in 1929. He signed a load of plans (Young Plan, Dawes Plan) with America to give Germany the money to pay the reparations from the Treaty of Versailles, and also to build hospitals. With his death, Germany lost a strong figure in politics who guided Germany through a difficult period.

The third was the Wall Street Crash. Hitler blamed the Wall Street Crash, and the following mass unemployment to blame Stresemann and all of his political rivals. This struck a chord with the German public, many choosing to vote Communist and Nazi.

 

He was a 'great' man, and if he had done good things, he would be a great man. Unfortunately he killed people, which isn't good. And he was more of an opportunist, as well, if 1 of the 3 events didn't happen, he would be in no position to take over. Before the war, he actually did a very good job of getting Germans into work, however this was by firing women and non nationals, and making every join the army and the RAD, which built autobahns and hospitals and schools.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't he just take over the political party he was already a member of? :rolleyes:

Yes, Hitler was the 55th member of the DAP, (Deutsche Arbeit Partei), although his membership card said he was the 555th member, to make them look bigger. That said, he did reinvent the DAP, who formed in 1917, to become the NSDAP (Prefixed with Nationalsozialiste or whatever it's spelt like in German). Somehow they got the nickname Nazi Party.

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im going to join in here and say a quick thing. Hitler, was a smart man. he did the thing anyone would have done at his position. Now i know people will say they would not have done that but truly in the back of your mind you would. it might not be jews but you would try and take over the world if you had power. i know i would.

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I think he would have been a great Leader if he hadn't decided there was a thing called a master race, and if it was a war against just communism. After all he managed to bring Europe to it's knees within 5 years and came close to winning. But Germany was always going to lose since they had most of the world on them, however if they had been able to create the atom bomb first, things would have been different...

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im going to join in here and say a quick thing. Hitler, was a smart man. he did the thing anyone would have done at his position. Now i know people will say they would not have done that but truly in the back of your mind you would. it might not be jews but you would try and take over the world if you had power. i know i would.

If I had power, I doubt that mass genocide would even cross my mind. He was killing a lot of his own people in that war, and also the Holocaust. The one thing that is admirable about Hitler is the way he stirred everyone up and made them outraged at things. When Hitler came to power in 1933, Germany was a complete and utter mess, so anything went. Any powerful leader can declare war on another country, even if it's not okayed by the United Nations, and as a general rule they don't.

 

I think he would have been a great Leader if he hadn't decided there was a thing called a master race, and if it was a war against just communism. After all he managed to bring Europe to it's knees within 5 years and came close to winning. But Germany was always going to lose since they had most of the world on them, however if they had been able to create the atom bomb first, things would have been different...

The thing is, Hitler never decided there was a master race. He was convinced of it. Another thing, what is so bad about communism, that everyone has to bash it? If Germany's communist party took over rather than the Nazi party - when Hitler convinced von Hindenburg to let him be Chancellor, Communist votes were going up and NSDAP votes were going down - then there wouldn't have been a war in my opinion.

Also, your statement about bringing Europe to it's knees within 5 years is technically true, but this is because if you start a war that a load of countries are fighting in, and actively invade a load of countries, that's what tends to happen. Hitler invaded various different countries, lets take Poland, which was effectively the domino which started the whole chain which was World War 2. Poland being invaded knocked Britain into fighting the Germans, but rather than fighting in their respective countries they just had a brawl wherever they could. That's why Europe fell to it's knees. I don't believe they did come close to winning, they were winning the war, by successfully stopping attacks. However, they never actually led an offensive, and if you don't attack you don't win.

Another point is that if Hitler's politics were what people agreed with and if he wasn't fighting for a cause which wasn't made up crap, then it wouldn't have been the whole world against him, and besides, America, Russia and Britain with a little help from a few other countries aren't most of the world. Sure, it's more than Germany, Italy, and Japan, but Germany didn't even need to bring Russia into it, and Japan America. Japan, obviously Pearl Harbour, and Russia was over a dispute about Poland.

Otherwise it's Germany and Italy taking on Britain and a bit of help from the commonwealth - Japan weren't really involved, they were fighting the Chinese. If Hitler didn't screw up his politics, Germany would have probably won the war.

Things would have been different if they'd been able to create the atom bomb first, but the close minded society Hitler advocated meant that there was little place for University - it was very much men doing hard labour and women cooking and cleaning. University requires a bit of open thinking and Hitler hated that. And if you can't go to university, how the hell are you supposed to create an atom bomb, if there's never been one created before?

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Not really sure how accurate this is, but I heard that Hitler got too involved with his military. Basically compared to the the U.S., his military was more complicated and disorganized.

 

 

So...my vote is neither genius or bonkers. Guess I will say...fool.

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Hmmm - let’s see ...

 

He was a racist who believed in Aryan supremacy and that Jews were responsible for the all the economic and social problems of the world. He believed that other European “cultures” were likewise inferior to Aryans (“less than human”), and therefore should serve as slaves.

 

Under his leadership, Germany undertook a systemic oppression of human rights, culminating in genocide.

 

He was a totalitarian fascist who believed that his government had the power to deny human rights to “inferior” people, and took no issue with torturing people to obtain information.

 

He managed to manipulate the war-weary leadership within the rest of Europe, with the threat of a war that no one wanted, to attain his own ends.

 

I’m sorry - but which of these attributes makes him a “great man”, again?

 

:rolleyes:

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Not really sure how accurate this is, but I heard that Hitler got too involved with his military. Basically compared to the the U.S., his military was more complicated and disorganized.

 

 

So...my vote is neither genius or bonkers. Guess I will say...fool.

The Army swore a personal oath to serve Hitler - not Germany. The Nazis put out a picture of organisation, but it was chaotic behind closed doors. it was bound to be disorganized.

 

But Hitler actually hardly did anything. He was lazy, and gave people the freedom to do what they liked in the Nazi party, so they just passed any law they could. This basically meant that while the Nazis may have been too involved with the military, Hitler spent most of his time being the figurehead. Obviously he could have done anything he liked (passing the Enabling act allowed him to pass any law), but Hitler himself didn't run the army.

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Ok so, in this Topic. We will discuss was Adolf Hitler, Genius, or bonkers?

 

I say, Genius. Sure i am against the Holocaust, but think about it. Anyone who knew there history would know Germany was a ABSOLUTE wreck after the First World War. People were starving, Homeless, after 4 years of war.

 

Germany was only allowed 100,000 Soldiers, no air force, and maybe a couple of Battleships. What if France decided to take over Germany? How would they survive? So Hitler came along, gathered some guys, and created the Nazi Fascist Party. Then he built a military force. What did the world do. Squat. Reason being, they were scared. But they let Hitler roll his snowball into he had one giant Snowball. That Snowball started to steamroll over smaller European countries. Then came the Second World War. And until he attacked Russia, and declared war on America. Hitler was unstoppable. He was at the Gates of Moscow, and Britain were close to surrender. I no need go on. Have your say!

First off, Hitler could have done none of that without 3 events:

The first of which was the Munich Putsch. This was when he and his private army tried to take over Munich. They did it, but nothing came of it and he got slung in jail. That's where he wrote Mein Kampf, where he outlined his plans. He also knew he would have to take over by democratical means.

The second was Gustav von Stresemann's death. Von Stresemann was the chancellor of Germany inaround 1923, but also did other jobs up until his death in 1929. He signed a load of plans (Young Plan, Dawes Plan) with America to give Germany the money to pay the reparations from the Treaty of Versailles, and also to build hospitals. With his death, Germany lost a strong figure in politics who guided Germany through a difficult period.

The third was the Wall Street Crash. Hitler blamed the Wall Street Crash, and the following mass unemployment to blame Stresemann and all of his political rivals. This struck a chord with the German public, many choosing to vote Communist and Nazi.

 

He was a 'great' man, and if he had done good things, he would be a great man. Unfortunately he killed people, which isn't good. And he was more of an opportunist, as well, if 1 of the 3 events didn't happen, he would be in no position to take over. Before the war, he actually did a very good job of getting Germans into work, however this was by firing women and non nationals, and making every join the army and the RAD, which built autobahns and hospitals and schools.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't he just take over the political party he was already a member of? :rolleyes:

Yes, Hitler was the 55th member of the DAP, (Deutsche Arbeit Partei), although his membership card said he was the 555th member, to make them look bigger. That said, he did reinvent the DAP, who formed in 1917, to become the NSDAP (Prefixed with Nationalsozialiste or whatever it's spelt like in German). Somehow they got the nickname Nazi Party.

 

 

It was the German scientists who invented the atom bomb for Amercia, Germany came close to making it but where stopped. Becuase they need a special type of water to make it. The allied forces then destroyed the ships carrying this special water which were coming from norway.

America was only able to build the atom bomb and put man on the moon becuase of the German scientists they captured.

Edited by question-asker

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Ok so, in this Topic. We will discuss was Adolf Hitler, Genius, or bonkers?

 

I say, Genius. Sure i am against the Holocaust, but think about it. Anyone who knew there history would know Germany was a ABSOLUTE wreck after the First World War. People were starving, Homeless, after 4 years of war.

 

Germany was only allowed 100,000 Soldiers, no air force, and maybe a couple of Battleships. What if France decided to take over Germany? How would they survive? So Hitler came along, gathered some guys, and created the Nazi Fascist Party. Then he built a military force. What did the world do. Squat. Reason being, they were scared. But they let Hitler roll his snowball into he had one giant Snowball. That Snowball started to steamroll over smaller European countries. Then came the Second World War. And until he attacked Russia, and declared war on America. Hitler was unstoppable. He was at the Gates of Moscow, and Britain were close to surrender. I no need go on. Have your say!

First off, Hitler could have done none of that without 3 events:

The first of which was the Munich Putsch. This was when he and his private army tried to take over Munich. They did it, but nothing came of it and he got slung in jail. That's where he wrote Mein Kampf, where he outlined his plans. He also knew he would have to take over by democratical means.

The second was Gustav von Stresemann's death. Von Stresemann was the chancellor of Germany inaround 1923, but also did other jobs up until his death in 1929. He signed a load of plans (Young Plan, Dawes Plan) with America to give Germany the money to pay the reparations from the Treaty of Versailles, and also to build hospitals. With his death, Germany lost a strong figure in politics who guided Germany through a difficult period.

The third was the Wall Street Crash. Hitler blamed the Wall Street Crash, and the following mass unemployment to blame Stresemann and all of his political rivals. This struck a chord with the German public, many choosing to vote Communist and Nazi.

 

He was a 'great' man, and if he had done good things, he would be a great man. Unfortunately he killed people, which isn't good. And he was more of an opportunist, as well, if 1 of the 3 events didn't happen, he would be in no position to take over. Before the war, he actually did a very good job of getting Germans into work, however this was by firing women and non nationals, and making every join the army and the RAD, which built autobahns and hospitals and schools.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't he just take over the political party he was already a member of? :rolleyes:

Yes, Hitler was the 55th member of the DAP, (Deutsche Arbeit Partei), although his membership card said he was the 555th member, to make them look bigger. That said, he did reinvent the DAP, who formed in 1917, to become the NSDAP (Prefixed with Nationalsozialiste or whatever it's spelt like in German). Somehow they got the nickname Nazi Party.

 

 

It was the German scientists who invented the atom bomb for Amercia, Germany came close to making it but where stopped. Becuase they need a special type of water to make it. The allied forces then destroyed the ships carrying this special water which were coming from norway.

America was only able to build the atom bomb and put man on the moon becuase of the German scientists they captured.

Actually, there were 26 Scientists doing all the Nuclear work for Germany, 13 of whom left when Hitler came to power, and then 8 of whom joining the Manhattan Project to develop nuclear armaments for the Allies. They weren't prisoners. They were Germans working for the Americans, Canadians and Brits. They weren't funded by Germany. That would suggest that my point is correct..

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Not to side-track the discussion or anything, but WTF do German Scientists working on the Manhattan Project have to do with Hitler's alleged "greatness"? :rolleyes:

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Not to side-track the discussion or anything, but WTF do German Scientists working on the Manhattan Project have to do with Hitler's alleged "greatness"? :rolleyes:

A point I made about the Universities in Germany, which question-asker responded to, which I responded to.

 

I don't think Hitler was great, but if he pushed his skills in a different political way he could change things for the good, rather than for the worse which he did.

As I said, ultimately he was a terrible politician, which was what his job was, because he fluffed it all up by bringing the USSR into the war.

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Unethical but possibly not insane. Insane in the term that you should be to do what he did, but he probably wasn't. A political mastermind, possibly. But then probably partially lucky.

 

So...my vote is neither genius or bonkers. Guess I will say...fool.
Even if his army was disorganized, i'm pretty sure he wasn't a fool. No fool could have pulled off what he did to begin with.

 

Hitler never decided there was a master race. He was convinced of it.
He had to decide that it existed to convince himself that it really was the master race? Edited by One

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Unethical but possibly not insane. Insane in the term that you should be to do what he did, but he probably wasn't. A political mastermind, possibly. But then probably partially lucky.

 

So...my vote is neither genius or bonkers. Guess I will say...fool.
Even if his army was disorganized, i'm pretty sure he wasn't a fool. No fool could have pulled off what he did to begin with.

 

Hitler never decided there was a master race. He was convinced of it.
He had to decide that it existed to convince himself that it really was the master race?

No. Hitler was convinced there was a master race, just like a Christian should be 100% convinced there is a God - they don't choose to believe it, because they believe that is the truth.

 

I wouldn't label Hitler a political mastermind - he knew how to speak, he knew who to blame, and with what he did, he stirred everyone up into believing it. If he wasn't utterly convincing in a speech, the NSDAP would never have gone from their 1917 conception to their 1933-being-elected if he couldn't speak. The fact they were elected was almost entirely down to the Wall Street Crash.

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Unethical but possibly not insane. Insane in the term that you should be to do what he did, but he probably wasn't. A political mastermind, possibly. But then probably partially lucky.

 

So...my vote is neither genius or bonkers. Guess I will say...fool.
Even if his army was disorganized, i'm pretty sure he wasn't a fool. No fool could have pulled off what he did to begin with.

 

Hitler never decided there was a master race. He was convinced of it.
He had to decide that it existed to convince himself that it really was the master race?

No. Hitler was convinced there was a master race, just like a Christian should be 100% convinced there is a God - they don't choose to believe it, because they believe that is the truth.

 

I wouldn't label Hitler a political mastermind - he knew how to speak, he knew who to blame, and with what he did, he stirred everyone up into believing it. If he wasn't utterly convincing in a speech, the NSDAP would never have gone from their 1917 conception to their 1933-being-elected if he couldn't speak. The fact they were elected was almost entirely down to the Wall Street Crash.

You have to decide to believe there is a god, you don't just get brought into this world and know that there is a god. The same applies, he wouldn't have just known, he had to be convinced even if it was trivial and took him a second. A decision was made either way. We don't just believe, that's not how we think.

 

He did know how to speak, perhaps mastermind was the incorrect way to use the word but to be honest, if you can pull off what he did for that long you are either extremely lucky or fairly clever. He may not have been einstein but he did a lot as a politician.

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Unethical but possibly not insane. Insane in the term that you should be to do what he did, but he probably wasn't. A political mastermind, possibly. But then probably partially lucky.

 

So...my vote is neither genius or bonkers. Guess I will say...fool.
Even if his army was disorganized, i'm pretty sure he wasn't a fool. No fool could have pulled off what he did to begin with.

 

Hitler never decided there was a master race. He was convinced of it.
He had to decide that it existed to convince himself that it really was the master race?

No. Hitler was convinced there was a master race, just like a Christian should be 100% convinced there is a God - they don't choose to believe it, because they believe that is the truth.

 

I wouldn't label Hitler a political mastermind - he knew how to speak, he knew who to blame, and with what he did, he stirred everyone up into believing it. If he wasn't utterly convincing in a speech, the NSDAP would never have gone from their 1917 conception to their 1933-being-elected if he couldn't speak. The fact they were elected was almost entirely down to the Wall Street Crash.

You have to decide to believe there is a god, you don't just get brought into this world and know that there is a god. The same applies, he wouldn't have just known, he had to be convinced even if it was trivial and took him a second. A decision was made either way. We don't just believe, that's not how we think.

 

He did know how to speak, perhaps mastermind was the incorrect way to use the word but to be honest, if you can pull off what he did for that long you are either extremely lucky or fairly clever. He may not have been einstein but he did a lot as a politician.

He got elected, then banned all political parties. Then later that year he passed the enabling act, which meant he could do what he liked. So he would have been leader until Germany lost the war, or he died.

 

And while it is true, you don't ever just say 'Oh there's a god' 'oh there's a master race'. It's an idea which ferments in your head for a while, there's no decision it's just a conviction that that is the truth.

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He got elected, then banned all political parties. Then later that year he passed the enabling act, which meant he could do what he liked. So he would have been leader until Germany lost the war, or he died.
Which just pushes what I said forward to be honest. Making sure he couldn't have an opposition in Germany is a pretty smart move. One of the perks of dictatorship I suppose. Not clever enough to see that it definitely wouldn't have a good ending no matter what happened.

 

And while it is true, you don't ever just say 'Oh there's a god' 'oh there's a master race'. It's an idea which ferments in your head for a while, there's no decision it's just a conviction that that is the truth.
You aren't really getting it, you have to decide it's true. It's still a decision to believe even if it is something you work on over time. You have to decide to accept it! There really isn't a debate here!

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He got elected, then banned all political parties. Then later that year he passed the enabling act, which meant he could do what he liked. So he would have been leader until Germany lost the war, or he died.
Which just pushes what I said forward to be honest. Making sure he couldn't have an opposition in Germany is a pretty smart move. One of the perks of dictatorship I suppose. Not clever enough to see that it definitely wouldn't have a good ending no matter what happened.

It's a smart move, but a very obvious move. If I was a dictator, it's the first thing I'd do.

 

And while it is true, you don't ever just say 'Oh there's a god' 'oh there's a master race'. It's an idea which ferments in your head for a while, there's no decision it's just a conviction that that is the truth.
You aren't really getting it, you have to decide it's true. It's still a decision to believe even if it is something you work on over time. You have to decide to accept it! There really isn't a debate here!

Okay, I see your point :rolleyes:.

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Hitler was a great man in some people's eyes. He brought a nation together before he tore it down. He created many jobs for people and helped them. His Aryan views and ways caused him to recreate and Germany and to also bring it to its knees and destroy it. Hitler had absolute power over Germany and with absolute power comes responsibility. Here are a couple quotes that I think go well with this.

Absolute Power corrups Absolutely.

With Great Power comes Great Responsibility.

 

Colin

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I don't get the whole "Hitler was a genius" thing. He had an easily convinced public, and once it actually came time to make war-winning decisions, he chocked.

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I envy him for his ability to speak so well. Other than that, I hate him. He is the reason why a majority of my family is dead.

If you were amped up on speed you'd be able to speak just as passionately.

 

*Note to self: Do speed before the speech in class next friday.....*

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