Removal Of The Dm Group (april Fools 2011)

[Xaria]

Lately there has been some discussion among the Staff members concerning the Distinguished Member group. There are some issues which cannot be overlooked, and we need to seriously consider the options and determine whether keeping the DM group is necessary.

 

I think that, essentially, the reasons for having this group have become obsolete. Originally the group was intended as a sort of stepping stone between the Forum Member and Forum Mod group, where the Staff could observe how members handled the increased power and authority, to gauge if they would be suitable for the moderator group. However, in the many years of the DM group existing, we have had no issues with Distinguished Members power abusing or behaving badly. It does not appear we need the group in order to weed out bad candidates, the staff's judgment has been perfectly adequate in choosing quality members to promote. Removing the DM group would simply speed up the process of becoming a moderator, which will come in handy in times when the staff urgently needs new members.

 

Even though it may have been useful before, it does not appear that the moderating abilities given to the group serve any purpose now. The DM team was also meant to help out the staff by dealing with rule-breaking in certain areas of the forum. But it is now evident that this is a rather pointless aspect of the group, since very little rule-breaking happens in the areas they moderate, and the few issues that do occur there are more often ones that only staff members can handle. There has not been a lot of rule-breaking in other parts of the forum either, and the staff have been able to handle the volume of reports received without difficulty. The staff would have no trouble handling the increased amount of reports there would be if we no longer had DMs to help.

 

So I've created this topic so we can discuss this all together and decide once and for all on the future of the DM group. Perhaps there is still a way we could make the group worthwhile again, but to be honest, that doesn't seem terribly likely to me.

 

Edit: April Fools! http://runescape.salmoneus.net/forums/inde...344579&st=0

[20000_Posts]

Whoa whoa whoa surely the group is still good for setting apart members that are helpful and trustworthy, right? :D

[venom]

Whoa whoa whoa surely the group is still good for setting apart members that are helpful and trustworthy, right? :D

I've always thought that getting a pip for being helpful and trustworthy is ****ing stupid. Sorry guys, but it's the truth. With activity down as it is, there's really not any use for it at all, just a stupid status symbol.

 

Kill it with fire, nobody's really been that distinguished for the past couple months anyway.

[Adam?]

To be fair, DMs did not originally have moderator powers and were only given them (I'd assume) due to an increased amount of rule-breaking in those forums. I mainly disagree with your reasoning regarding it being a stepping-stone between forum member and mod. Not only is it supposed to serve as a means of limiting the pool of candidates for moderator, but it also serves as a sort of anti-culture-shock to those who will become moderators. To go from being a forum member to moderator, without ever taking a part, at least mildly, in its system could overwhelm a new mod. As a DM I've learned many things about how the forum operates on the inside, despite not actually having real mod powers.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Adam?

[20000_Posts]

Whoa whoa whoa surely the group is still good for setting apart members that are helpful and trustworthy, right? :D

I've always thought that getting a pip for being helpful and trustworthy is ****ing stupid. Sorry guys, but it's the truth. With activity down as it is, there's really not any use for it at all, just a stupid status symbol.

 

Kill it with fire, nobody's really been that distinguished for the past couple months anyway.

There's some DMs I think we could do without, but not all.

 

What if we trimmed down the group to just a few?

[venom]

Whoa whoa whoa surely the group is still good for setting apart members that are helpful and trustworthy, right? :D

I've always thought that getting a pip for being helpful and trustworthy is ****ing stupid. Sorry guys, but it's the truth. With activity down as it is, there's really not any use for it at all, just a stupid status symbol.

 

Kill it with fire, nobody's really been that distinguished for the past couple months anyway.

There's some DMs I think we could do without, but not all.

 

What if we trimmed down the group to just a few?

I'm sorry, but that's completely idiotic. Let's just examine the group these days:

 

Adam: I love you man, but you got promoted because DSZ is the only thing keeping this forum alive.

Tabt: She's a girl., do I need to say anything more.

You: You have ten million posts and a negative warn, and in the ****ed up system we have, DM is the next logical step.

 

Everyone else is so forgettable I can't even remember why they got promoted, probably for being nice. We can't have a group just for being "nice."

 

The DM group used to have people like Common Sense, Yuan, Dani, Vearl/Xaria. We used to have enough outstanding members to justify it. We don't now.

 

 

I mean Jesus Christ, we promoted Mudkip ****ing Hugger.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Venom

[Morte]

Whoa whoa whoa surely the group is still good for setting apart members that are helpful and trustworthy, right? :(

I've always thought that getting a pip for being helpful and trustworthy is ****ing stupid. Sorry guys, but it's the truth. With activity down as it is, there's really not any use for it at all, just a stupid status symbol.

 

Kill it with fire, nobody's really been that distinguished for the past couple months anyway.

There's some DMs I think we could do without, but not all.

 

What if we trimmed down the group to just a few?

To be honest, I don't want to see another "tech support" meltdown. It's an all-or-nothing move here. And as all of the staff were DM's at some point or the equivalent (except Xaria, everyone knows she was BORN with admin powers :D), we do understand the seriousness of this debate.

 

Some of you guys have been in this group for years, and others only months. I'm actually riding the fence on it this time around for a few reasons:

 

Being a former DM, I know how frustrating it can be to see all those reports that you can't handle because it's signature related, or vice versa. The work we did as DM's was actually very little.

 

On the other hand, the DM group itself does function as a test group for future actions, can provide excellent feedback when called upon, and generaly promote the good name of Sal's around the forum.

 

It's a tough call here.

[Morte]

This is pretty fudgeing ridiculous. :D

 

 

We have to give people a test trial before becoming moderator :P It just doesn't feel right promoting someone without a hint of their ability.

Not to break any leaking rules, but as you said in the mod forum topic:

 

I agree that some of the members we've promoted seem to make less of a lasting impression....

 

Snipped because the rest argues to keep them and leaks some other things. But isn't it sad that some of our own DM's can't be named by some other forumers? :(

 

 

I'm not really trying to be rude, but Venom does have a slight point. :D

[Adam?]

I'd argue the failing of other members to name dms has more to do with our the lack of forum activity and feelings of apathy some members have towards the community.

[Sryen]

The DM group used to have people like Common Sense, Yuan, Dani, Vearl/Xaria. We used to have enough outstanding members to justify it. We don't now.

I'm sure that the group has had just as many members over the years who never made any sort of lasting impression. Name dropping a few of the greats doesn't really mean much.

It just doesn't feel right promoting someone without a hint of their ability.

I agree with this. While very few DMs are ever so bad that they get demoted for their actions, its not a sure thing that when someone is promoted to DM that they will next become a moderator, and there's a reason for that. While we've never made any poor decisions on who to promote to DM (IMO), I don't think that immediatley translates ot all of those poeple could've immediatley become moderators.

 

I don't know, to me it just seems like a good idea to give people a taste of some limited power before they're given the whole thing. Whether it's because they might abuse that power, or not use that power at all, it seems like a bad idea to promote someone directly to moderator blindly.

Snipped because the rest argues to keep them and leaks some other things. But isn't it sad that some of our own DM's can't be named by some other forumers?

Well there's a pretty obvious divide between the people that are only here for the Runescape sections, and the people that don't play anymore and never go near them, which could easily explain this.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Sryen

[Morte]

I don't know, to me it just seems like a good idea to give people a taste of some limited power before they're given the whole thing. Whether it's because they might abuse that power, or not use that power at all, it seems like a bad idea to promote someone directly to moderator blindly.

Has anyone here besides mods from the old forum gone as far as to power abuse beyond inside jokes? :D It's silly to say that a trial group that has maybe 2 consistent functions is the cause for that. :(

 

Snipped because the rest argues to keep them and leaks some other things. But isn't it sad that some of our own DM's can't be named by some other forumers?

Well there's a pretty obvious divide between the people that are only here for the Runescape sections, and the people that don't play anymore and never go near them, which could easily explain this.

And 99% of the time the people we promote to DM are inactive RS players, which means they have no current experience with which to moderate their given section.

 

 

Call me the Devil's Advocate here, but what's the difference between the current dm group and the average forumer?

Edited March 29, 2011 by Morte

[venom]

Call me the Devil's Advocate here, but what's the difference between the current dm group and the average forumer?

 

A shiny blue pip and an inflated ego, to be honest.

 

And in the history of Sal's the only instances of power abuse I can remember occurred from longstanding administrators on power trips, not the average, newly promoted moderator.

 

Globby was promoted blindly and he did a great job.

[Morte]

Call me the Devil's Advocate here, but what's the difference between the current dm group and the average forumer?

 

A shiny blue pip and an inflated ego, to be honest.

 

And in the history of Sal's the only instances of power abuse I can remember occurred from longstanding administrators on power trips, not the average, newly promoted moderator.

 

Globby was promoted blindly and he did a great job.

I don't think any instance of admin abuse in recent past has much holding, though. It just isn't likely anymore.

 

Globularbob, amirite? He was a good mod.

[Sryen]

Has anyone here besides mods from the old forum gone as far as to power abuse beyond inside jokes?

Probably not, but power abuse is only part of it, and is obviously an extreme case. There's no telling if someone would be good at or even be interested in moderating. The DM group allows you to test that as well. Just because someone is a good person does not mean they would make a good moderator.

And 99% of the time the people we promote to DM are inactive RS players, which means they have no current experience with which to moderate their given section.

And perhaps this means we should reevaluate the process in which we nominate and promote DMs, or the sections that they are given moderator powers, but I don't think it warrants the deletion of the group.

[20000_Posts]

Call me the Devil's Advocate here, but what's the difference between the current dm group and the average forumer?

 

A shiny blue pip and an inflated ego, to be honest.

You're one to talk...

 

You can't just raise everyone's hopes with becoming a DM and then just take them away. That's not fair...what about the people who just got DM?

[Morte]

Call me the Devil's Advocate here, but what's the difference between the current dm group and the average forumer?

 

A shiny blue pip and an inflated ego, to be honest.

You're one to talk...

 

You can't just raise everyone's hopes with becoming a DM and then just take them away. That's not fair...what about the people who just got DM?

Stop giving me points to post about, I want to sleep. :D

 

First of all, let's leave the personal stuff aside. I know it stings to be demoted. But at this point, what else is there?

 

And as for the people who just got DM........ I feel like a bum saying it, but no matter when we do this (if we do) there will always be a groupe of "new" DM's. :(

[venom]

Call me the Devil's Advocate here, but what's the difference between the current dm group and the average forumer?

 

A shiny blue pip and an inflated ego, to be honest.

You're one to talk...

 

You can't just raise everyone's hopes with becoming a DM and then just take them away. That's not fair...what about the people who just got DM?

These days, that is about what separates me from the average forumer, I admit that. That and my year of forum moderation and six years of contribution, most of which as a DM. I was a DM for longer than anyone else in Sal's history, you think I don't know about the group better than anyone? The fact that I held such a position for four years and still advocate its deletion says something about the groups viability: it has none.

 

 

And in regards to your last point: It is better to have been a DM, and been demoted, than to have never been promoted at all. At least I think that's how that expression goes. People will still be able to recognize you anyway, custom member titles aren't removed upon demotion.

[Adam?]

Call me the Devil's Advocate here, but what's the difference between the current dm group and the average forumer?

 

A shiny blue pip and an inflated ego, to be honest.

You're one to talk...

 

You can't just raise everyone's hopes with becoming a DM and then just take them away. That's not fair...what about the people who just got DM?

These days, that is about what separates me from the average forumer, I admit that. That and my year of forum moderation and six years of contribution, most of which as a DM. I was a DM for longer than anyone else in Sal's history, you think I don't know about the group better than anyone? The fact that I held such a position for four years and still advocate its deletion says something about the groups viability: it has none.

 

 

And in regards to your last point: It is better to have been a DM, and been demoted, than to have never been promoted at all. At least I think that's how that expression goes. People will still be able to recognize you anyway, custom member titles aren't removed upon demotion.

I want my member title to be eternal. :D

[lord earth13]

We have to give people a test trial before becoming moderator It just doesn't feel right promoting someone without a hint of their ability.

On so many other huge forums, people are promoted directly from forum members to moderators. There's no step in-between. It works as a fine system. The only reason a member would really need to be given a real test trial is if they were just randomly chosen. DMs are chosen by their posts, this should be more than enough of a hint of their abilities.

 

I suppose it's kind of ironic that I'm going against a group I'm apart of, but this really isn't a necessary group to begin with, especially with the activity going down. There's so many DMs to moderate just a few forums and there's too little work to deal with. The problem is, you higher-ups can't even get much of a hint of what a lot of us are capable of. Activity isn't what it used to be, and as a result rule breaking also happens considerably less. At least in the forums we're allowed to moderate in.

[20000_Posts]

This fudgeing sucks. This is ridiculous.

[Desireful]

This fudgeing sucks. This is ridiculous.

If it happens, it happens. It's not like we'd be able to do anything about it. :D

[Morte]

This fudgeing sucks. This is ridiculous.

Red, come on. This is just the discussion of it right now. No one's saying that we are or aren't going to actually do this. Give us some GOOD, DISCUSSABLE points on keeping it, and you guys will stick around.

[20000_Posts]

Some of us EARNED it. I practically run the tech forums on my own and am one of the only active presences on the forums. Yea sure I'm not in the RS section but fudge I have 16k posts from everywhere else.

 

I deserve some recognition. I'm one of the last legs this forum has.

[Donovan]

Now now, let's not get too personal here. Staff or DM, you're in that position because you are mature enough to handle such controversial subjects. I'm certain none of us will belittle you for wanting the group to stay.

 

Let's be objective though, it's been a very long time since someone's been demoted for reasons other than inactivity. The nomination and voting process has been refined enough that we shouldn't have to evaluate the same person twice. By keeping the DM group we're just promoting people to an intermediary group for the sake of it, the person is the same whether they have Mod powers or not. I can see the use of the group back in the day when Sal's was a new community and the staff was still learning, but now we have the know-how to move toward a more streamlined process. Like I said on the Mod boards, it's time to take off the training wheels.

[Emanick]

Some of us EARNED it. I practically run the tech forums on my own and am one of the only active presences on the forums. Yea sure I'm not in the RS section but fudge I have 16k posts from everywhere else.

 

I deserve some recognition. I'm one of the last legs this forum has.

And you may be the only functioning organ in this quadriplegic great-grandmother of RuneWiki of a forum for all I know, but that doesn't make you a cut above the rest of the DMs. Everyone earned their place here. Sryen was here long before you were, and unlike you, nobody else in the blue group has ever been a hairsbreadth from the banhammer. Being a DM makes you somewhat special, but you're not indispensable. Nobody is, with the possible exceptions of Xaria and Mr X.

 

I agree with Don. The DM group has run its necessary course; it's time to cut the umbilical cord. Normally I would post seven ample paragraphs explaining why I think this, but a lot of it has been said already, and I have a paper to finish for tomorrow. I'll drop in later and flap my gums the requisite amount if I have time.