Removal Of The Dm Group (april Fools 2011)

[Emanick]

What? No. What benefit do you get from that?

This is really discussion for a different thread, but what benefit does it provide? It's just a way for people to feel better than other people based on a meaningless number.

It also shows how active people are and how familiar they are with the community. The people with the highest post counts aren't part of the problem, so I don't think there are really any drawbacks to keeping post count visible. I agree that it's not terribly useful, but if a newbie wants to ask somebody a question in a thread, at least he has some idea of who to ask.

 

Idk, maybe I'm just old fashioned and like it for that reason. But in any case, we should continue this discussion in a separate thread, if at all.

[Desireful]

Why don't we remove post count while we're at it?

What? No. What benefit do you get from that?

 

What does that even have to do with removing the DM group?

I agree, I can't remember anyone showing off their post count as a way to get power or whatever for, like, years.

 

Post count is kind of cool and, as status symbols go, it's pretty impossible to abuse. I don't think there's any point in getting rid of it.

Plus, it's an obvious indication of how active that person is. But we are veering off topic, and we should focus on the dm issue. (thanks fini :D)

Edited March 29, 2011 by Desireful

[Sryen]

As for the sentiments earlier about moving this into a public forum, I'm not against it, but maybe we should wait a bit? A lot of the Mods and DMs haven't had a chance to give their input, and the topic really hasn't been around very long yet. At least enough to give the people in different time zones a chance.

[Adam?]

Wait why the hell would we move this specific topic.

[Desireful]

Wait why the hell would we move this specific topic.

Why not? People should know what our thoughts on the subject is... :D

[20000_Posts]

Wait why the hell would we move this specific topic.

So others could see the past discussions...?

 

Unless you want people to blindly go for what they think. Sure.

[Adam?]

Why not post a new topic so people aren't influenced by our own opinions?

[lord earth13]

That's the thing, though. Members would see both sides and would then be able to choose what they think is best. Both sides of the argument have had good points, so it doesn't make it as biased asking the members.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Earthy

[20000_Posts]

Not to mention none of the forum members really know what it's like to be a DM.

 

Except Gillis.

[heb0]

Honestly I'm not quite sure where this came from. I mean, we'd been talking it over a bit in the staff forums, but i didn't realize we were going for all out removal. I remember being a new member and looking up to the DMs. They were a group of respected, trustworthy and colorful people that helped make the forums fun and worthwhile. They were a bridge between the more distant and official-seeming mods and admins, and they really made Sal's an interesting place. :(

 

Just because the group isn't what it used to be doesn't mean we have to get rid of it. People change, and the forums change! I'm a bit annoyed that some people have been throwing out the names of old DMs as if the new ones aren't good enough. The forums are different nowadays. It's only logical that the DMs would be too. There's no need to basically insult them. So what if they're not as useful as mods? They're not supposed to be. They've earned their place and I think they benefit the forums. I couldn't imagine what Sal's would be without them, and I couldn't imagine being here if they were gone.

 

But what the hell, if we're gonna have this discussion, we might as well open it up to everyone. I agree with the other people here. We should move this out to the regular forums. The forums are ultimately the domain of the forum members--they should have a part in determining this. The discussion has already started, and by moving this there wont be the redundancy of having two topics going on. Plus, it'd be good to let the forumers know where we stand.

 

I can't believe were doing this, but we might as well do it right. :D

Edited March 29, 2011 by heb0

[Egghebrecht]

you lot brought it on yourselves imho...

[Emanick]

you lot brought it on yourselves imho...

That's going a bit far IMO, Egghe. :D Care to explain?

[Tabt]

Tabt: She's a girl., do I need to say anything more.

Really? :D

 

Sorry this must have been moved after I went to bed. Ill just post a quick message now before I have to go to work.

 

The DM group to me is still useful, I've learned a lot about how the forum works and the mechanics behind it. Luckily without the power to make any huge mistakes. Its definetly a learning curve. If you were to promote someone straight out of the masses and heap mod powers on them you could expect a lot more 'Guest Emaniks' and the like.

 

Perhaps abolish it and then when you promote mods limit their powers for a while?

 

I don't know. Its sad that you guys think its unneeded anymore because its a nice group to be a part of.

 

I ony just got my bronze star! :(

 

Anyhoo, work now. Ill post more laters! :P

[Egghebrecht]

you lot brought it on yourselves imho...

That's going a bit far IMO, Egghe. :( Care to explain?

pretty much all the dm group does nowadays is spam up the boards and their own secret forum with meaningless posts and then promote their own "friends" (who are just as bad) as new dm's

 

they have created a culture of rewarding borderline trolling behaviour

they are like the schoolyard "cool crew", just a bunch of Johnsons who think that they are better than the rest just because they belong to a certain group

 

we are long past the point where a dm was supposed to be a respected member :D

[Razorlike]

DM group is just made to filter out the people that go inactive after they get some power. We have the retired mod group for that. I don't see why it shouldn't be removed. The handful DM and DM's to be that are fit to moderate should just be given the power.

 

~Razorlike

[Yuanrang]

I'm sure that the group has had just as many members over the years who never made any sort of lasting impression. Name dropping a few of the greats doesn't really mean much.

 

Well up to a certain point, there were just 2 types of DMs: The favouritists that were promoted by biased Staff before the forum transfer and then the ones that actually were distinguished. While not everyone might not have been active in improving the site and forum in terms of guidewriting or rule-making, the ones that were laid back were people everyone respected and looked up to, and in that sense, they deserved it as well. It just started going very wrong when people started voting for their friends (one particular section comes to mind..) and how they percieved them rather than overall forum impression. :P

 

Globby was promoted blindly and he did a great job.

And the one promoting him did not do a great job. Hex did more damage than good with his random projects every 3 months he popped by for a week. Globular was just a lucky shot, to be honest. :D

 

By the way, people should listen to Venom. He was the only favouritist-promoted DM to even make it to the finish-line of Modship and LAST, that should speak tons about how qualified he is to assess the situation. He's more pro than BeeBoy. :(

 

Some of us EARNED it. I practically run the tech forums on my own and am one of the only active presences on the forums. Yea sure I'm not in the RS section but fudge I have 16k posts from everywhere else

Posts got nothing to do with it, I think me, 123Man, Common Sense, Dissentor, Patou, Kuittaa and Simple all got DMship before the 500 post mark. :D

 

Although that's nothing compared to Guardian CRD and Globular that were mods and DMs before they even had 100~ posts!

 

I never saw the DM's only as a stepping stone into the mod group (people have been DM's for quite some time without promotion or demotion ),

Those are desperation-promotions, in the sense that we keep some mediocre people around until we run out of moderators, then we promote them. It's okay though, they retire 1-2 months after 80% of the time.

 

Maybe we'll get rid of the suckup problem with the removal of the group too, no more trying to impress the mods to gain an useless title.

Sorry bro, but that's where you're wrong. I mean, now they won't suck up to DMs that can vote them in, anymore. Now they're going to brown-nose the mods directly instead, meaning they'll get even more persistant about it.

 

I agree, I can't remember anyone showing off their post count as a way to get power or whatever for, like, years.

Didn't Red technically point out he earned DMship in that way, like... 2 pages ago? :P

 

Not to mention none of the forum members really know what it's like to be a DM.

 

Except Gillis.

Yeah, him and the other couple of dozen dishonorably discharged mods, admins, DMs and inactive DMs in the past

 

 

 

While we're on the subject of changing groups around, anyone else interested in actually pruning the Retired group to remove the most horribly inactive people?

[Morte]

Not to mention none of the forum members really know what it's like to be a DM.

 

Except Gillis.

Jack Nicholson for one? And any of the others who were mature enough to admit they were becoming inactive and requested demotion...

 

I think the dm group has become a shadow of what it used to be. The DM forums reek of inactivity, and any topic that gets created is just spam. Read the archives, you'll see the difference. And the staff is a part of that failure for letting this once great group sink into this hole.

 

After sleeping on it, I've decided that I'm going to be on the side of the deletion of this group. It's not something I totally want, but it's something we need to do.

 

 

Any other comments? I'm all for moving this to the forum announcements.

 

 

By the way, people should listen to Venom. He was the only favouritist-promoted DM to even make it to the finish-line of Modship and LAST, that should speak tons about how qualified he is to assess the situation. He's more pro than BeeBoy. :(

I was always of the opinion that my friendship with Un0 and the other #novus crew was the reason I got DM. :D

Edited March 29, 2011 by Morte

[Arianna]

I think me, 123Man, Common Sense, Dissentor, Patou, Kuittaa and Simple all got DMship before the 500 post mark.

And the first two on the list utterly suck, by the way

[Yuanrang]

I was always of the opinion that my friendship with Un0 and the other #novus crew was the reason I got DM. :D

Not to speak on behalf of anyone else, but I think for the most part, you're one of the top 5 promotions we've had in the past 3 or so years. Your posts prove as much.

[Morte]

I was always of the opinion that my friendship with Un0 and the other #novus crew was the reason I got DM. :D

Not to speak on behalf of anyone else, but I think for the most part, you're one of the top 5 promotions we've had in the past 3 or so years. Your posts prove as much.

:(

 

 

Alright, if there's not further discussion here I think we really need to put it to the forum then. I think it will actually encourage some very good discussion, and give the normies a view of the inner workings.

[Donovan]

I was always of the opinion that my friendship with Un0 and the other #novus crew was the reason I got DM. :D

Not to speak on behalf of anyone else, but I think for the most part, you're one of the top 5 promotions we've had in the past 3 or so years. Your posts prove as much.

:(

 

 

Alright, if there's not further discussion here I think we really need to put it to the forum then. I think it will actually encourage some very good discussion, and give the normies a view of the inner workings.

There's still a couple of DMs who have yet to post, let's at least hear them out first.

[Morte]

That just sort of proves the point of inactivity though, doesn't it? I've seen several people viewing this topic without posting. :D

[finisterra]

@Don's last post: Since when do you care about the DMs?

[Arianna]

I was always of the opinion that my friendship with Un0 and the other #novus crew was the reason I got DM. :D

Not to speak on behalf of anyone else, but I think for the most part, you're one of the top 5 promotions we've had in the past 3 or so years. Your posts prove as much.

You couldn't be friends with da Wu-Novus clan without being awesome

 

That guy that went by the name of Illusion was the exception, of course

[Phoenix Rider]

I must say I am very disappointed with this conclusion. It was all so sudden and I can say that we DM's never saw it coming.

 

You know, the least that you guys could have done was warn us that something like this was happening. Give us time to improve ourselves and make suggestions. Instead we are given this decision by the staff out of thin air.

 

The language in Xaria's post makes suggest the decision has already been made and quite frankly this topic seems nothing more than a charade, a last chance for us to say goodbyes and to make it appear that we had our say. I mean come on, "doesn't seem terribly likely", "the reasons for having this group have become obsolete"? Let's face it, the staff obviously has already come to a decision so what can we do say or do to overturn what's about to come? And how the hell will bringing this out to the public change anything? The staff have laid their agenda, they think we're useless. This isn't a democracy and we shouldn't try to make it seem so.

 

Let me just say this. When I was invited to become DM. I was told it was to thank me for the hard work and dedication I put in this forum. An appreciation for my posts. An appreciation for us being "kind, responsible, and respectful individuals". I was never told I was expected to moderate. We already agreed that being an active moderator is not a criteria of keeping your DMship because if that was the case, we should all have got the sack AGES ago, including our current mods. It's not our fault we can't edit over sized siggys or delete spam posts not is it our fault that we are inactive Runescape players because much of us is pulled our because of long paragraphs we create in General Chat.

 

And don't give me the stepping stone excuse. We dealt with that reasoning in past elections so stop whipping the dead horse. The DMshiip is a way of showing appreciation to people for having a positives effect to the community. A way of giving some power and status to those we feel responsible.

 

And if people think I'm making sweeping statements, I tell you that much of that came out of conversations we had in here, alot from the mouth of the mods and admins who threaten to boot us out. I can quote if necesarry.

 

But it's not like any of that would make a difference.

 

I've said what needs to be said. I'll just sit back and watch the staff do what they please. I suggest my fellow DMs do the same. It's over boys. Time to close up shop.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Phoenix Rider