Do You Support Israel Or Palestine?

[meteorboy12]

Tell me this:

Israel is the only democracy in the middle east. It has made huge leaps in the field on technology. They contribute much to the known world- for example, when the earthquake struck Haiti, Israeli rescuers were one of the first to give aid. Also, despite many accusations, Israel has the lowest citizen death rate when engaging in combatants- that is how many citizens die for every militant killed. one citizen is killed for every two militants killed. america has a 25 to 1 ratio- 25 citizens killed for every militant killed. Also, Israel flies over places it will bomb and drops leaflets saying how they will bomb the place and citizens should find shelter to avoid being hit. Hamas and other Islamic Fascist groups send thousands of missiles every year into Israeli cities, with no warning whatsoever. Why do people want Israel gone? It is a thriving place. When Israel gave over the Gaza strip, they left homes and greenhouses in perfect condition. The new Islamic group that governs there destroyed the greenhouses and desecrated old synagogues. If Israel would be completely given to the Palestinians, it would just turn into another Muslim country where women have almost no rights. Why do Islamic militants want Israel so bad? they have over 22 other Islamic countries to go to. Did you know Israel is so small sixteen Israels can fit into Germany? and 459 can fit into all of Europe. Israel is to be supported. The muslim countries have no tolerance of Jews, and threaten to destroy them and wipe them off the face of the earth. However, in the Jewish state, there are Muslim people in the Kinneset (Israeli Government). that is why Israel should be supported and not told to be destroyed and wiped out forever.

[thepope1322]

The US army kills 25 civilians for every insurgent? You must be smoking some good shizzle if you think that's true.

 

The rest of your points are invalid. The Israelis are acting like fascists.

They're bulldozing the homes of innocent people, sending settlers into the Gaza strip and other such areas to legitimize their claims and are doing everything to make the lives of Palestinians so unpleasant that they will want to leave. Israel is the most militaristic democracy in the world, their technology is limited mostly to designing new weapons of war. The Arabs inside the warzones have very little rights.

 

I'm also pretty sure women aren't being repressed in Jordan, Syria or Iraq. Stop basing your idea of an Arab country on Taliban-era Afghanistan.

 

Maybe extremist Muslims wouldn't have Jews so much if the Jewish state wasn't ejecting Arabs from Palestine. Israel is extremely belligerent and aggressive. Of course nobody can touch them because anyone who condemns them is denounced as a antisemitic Hitlerite. I don't think Israel should be erased from existence, but they should be kept in check. The US is giving them a free hand in the area and they're acting like muppetbags.

 

Sure, Israel is their "promised land" but it holds significance to nearly every Abrahamic religion, including Christianity and Islam. Maybe we should kick Jews and Arabs out and proclaim a Christian state in Jerusalem, huh?

 

They're not the little country that needs to be supported. Yes, there are militants there but I'd be firing Katyushas across the border too if my country was occupied.

 

I voted no-no-yes-it's not-not true.

Edited April 24, 2011 by theking1322

[Mr Summers]

Regarding the settlements, I am always depressed when some one says, "IMO, it doesn't matter who get into power next because the hatred stage has set and the greed will not end till Jews drive all Palestinians out of their land or Arabs drive Israelis out of the unholy land. "

 

In terms of the Israel allowing their settlement on lands they merely militarily occupy, its perfectly explained by greed. Israel does it because it can, and until some external force says no more, Israel will continue to settle.

 

And of course, hoping in the final settlement to demand more and more land.

[Sleepy]

Isreal isn't the only Democracy in the Middle East. There's Iraq and hopefully Egypt, Libya, and Tunisia :D

 

What if I just said that both parties are in a retaliation cycle that's hard to escape from and, until that cycle ends, it's hard to blame either side.

[Samurai Kenji]

I don't believe Israel should have been formed in the first place and therefore should take the accommodating resolution in the current situation and be thankful that they even have a country at all, that being said I don't support either of them because they're both equally retarded and they're both acting like babies.

 

 

Also OP it's very VERY VERY VERY VERY bad practice to make a thread for us to discuss our opinions on an issue and then throw your (wrong) opinion at us. Good post-making would be to start off with a neutral statement then either skip a few lines and post your own opinion, or put it in a spoiler tag.

 

 

Also, most (all?) of your "facts" are wrong in a way that can't be justified by misreading, from the looks of things you either haven't done a shred of research into the topic and you're just throwing things out there from your own head, or more likely you're trolling.

 

 

For the record.

 

No-no-yes-it's not-that isn't true

Edited April 25, 2011 by Samurai Kenji

[meteorboy12]

Tell me this:

Israel is the only democracy in the middle east. It has made huge leaps in the field on technology. They contribute much to the known world- for example, when the earthquake struck Haiti, Israeli rescuers were one of the first to give aid. Also, despite many accusations, Israel has the lowest citizen death rate when engaging in combatants- that is how many citizens die for every militant killed. one citizen is killed for every two militants killed. america has a 25 to 1 ratio- 25 citizens killed for every militant killed. Also, Israel flies over places it will bomb and drops leaflets saying how they will bomb the place and citizens should find shelter to avoid being hit. Hamas and other Islamic Fascist groups send thousands of missiles every year into Israeli cities, with no warning whatsoever. Why do people want Israel gone? It is a thriving place. When Israel gave over the Gaza strip, they left homes and greenhouses in perfect condition. The new Islamic group that governs there destroyed the greenhouses and desecrated old synagogues. If Israel would be completely given to the Palestinians, it would just turn into another Muslim country where women have almost no rights. Why do Islamic militants want Israel so bad? they have over 22 other Islamic countries to go to. Did you know Israel is so small sixteen Israels can fit into Germany? and 459 can fit into all of Europe. Israel is to be supported. The muslim countries have no tolerance of Jews, and threaten to destroy them and wipe them off the face of the earth. However, in the Jewish state, there are Muslim people in the Kinneset (Israeli Government). that is why Israel should be supported and not told to be destroyed and wiped out forever.

 

Are the Jews not allowed to have their own state?

Israel only invests money on defense- and they never invade. they gave gaza and the entire west bank- which is a huge chunk of Israel. They are the only TRUE democracy- and they arent biast to Palestinians at all! Many palestians want Israel gone forever, while if they had Israel no jews would be allowed in, but under Israel anybody is allowed in and it is a free and thriving state i dont see why anyone would want it gone.

[heb0]

I feel like these poll options are a bit biased. It's as if I made a poll about candy bars and the last question was "Did you know that Milky Ways are awesome and taste great and are great for you and better than all other candy bars and before Milky Way there was no candy bar in the world that even tasted good because all candy bars other than Milky Way suck????"

[Emanick]

It's true - Israel isn't the country that invades other nations and threatens them with annihilation. (It did so pre-emptively 44 years ago, of course, but that was when it was about to be attacked by several other powers, all ringing it - nearly half a century ago, under some of the most morally defensible reasons that exist.) It is, of course, untrue that Israelis "arent biast to Palestinians at all," but the bigotry of the Palestinians is no better than that of the Israelis at best, and far worse at worst. You won't see any Israelis calling for the complete and utter destruction of the "Arabic race" - or not teeming crowds, anyway. (I'm sure there are a few crackpots who do.)

 

Israel is a tiny country. It's understandable that it wants to hang onto whatever land it can get. Israel may be wrong on many things, but to demonize it at the expense of its opponents is foolish. We need to work towards peace (which is theoretically possible), and that won't be achieved through name-calling or blame-mongering.

Edited April 30, 2011 by heb0

[Finway]

Are the Jews not allowed to have their own state?

Therein lies the problem - people have the assumption that a state like Israel must be one religion or the other. Why does there have to be one specific religion endorsed officially or unofficially by the government? Why can't there be religious freedom and tolerance for all beliefs, instead of excluding either Muslims or Jews in the process of creating a nation of only one religion?

 

And if it is a true democracy as you say, and there are roughly a million Muslims in the country, it's obviously not just a Jewish state. :D

[Conspicuous]

May I ask, why is your original post so biased?

[Definition]

If any of you have an hour:

 

http://being.publicradio.org/programs/2011...oth-identities/

[Goglmogl]

As far as I can tell, it's always wrong to put these kind of polls up.

I will always support Israel, being the home country and the country that I was born it, you'd expect it straight away.

I think that seeing it is the only state in the "Middle East" that is Democratic, it seems to try and solve the problems while the Palestinians reject almost everything and want war. :l

Israel has to stay the Jewish state, it is because no other country is Jewish by its first (major) religion. I may live in Australia now, but that doesn't mean that I get to have everything I did in Israel (such as holidays, etc.).

I am raising a point that this "Middle East" you talk about doesn't exist. It is not the middle nor the east of anywhere. Most of it is South-West Asia and some of it is Africa. :3

[Byz]

You honestly think the Palestinians favored Zionism?

What if Native Americans walked onto your land, into your house, kicked you out took all your stuff all at the order of the government? Is it right? (perhaps but its debatable) Would you be happy about it? (hell no) Would you probably use some sort of forceful measure to take back your property? (most likely)

 

So, how can you blame the Palestinians? They are simply taking back what THEY believe is rightfully theirs. Whether this is the case or not, is not for me to say but this topic makes it seem as though they are being savages. Also remember Jews did nothing to earn the land of Israel. They did not conquer it, they did not discover it (at least the modern Jews) and they did not purchase it. Again this is an extremely deep ethical issue since everyone's opinions will differ regarding who actually owns the land.

[Fangy]

I think they should both stfu and stop fighting.

What Israel is doing is wrong, but Palestine needs to realize it won't win.

[Goglmogl]

You honestly think the Palestinians favored Zionism?

What if Native Americans walked onto your land, into your house, kicked you out took all your stuff all at the order of the government? Is it right? (perhaps but its debatable) Would you be happy about it? (hell no) Would you probably use some sort of forceful measure to take back your property? (most likely)

 

So, how can you blame the Palestinians? They are simply taking back what THEY believe is rightfully theirs. Whether this is the case or not, is not for me to say but this topic makes it seem as though they are being savages. Also remember Jews did nothing to earn the land of Israel. They did not conquer it, they did not discover it (at least the modern Jews) and they did not purchase it. Again this is an extremely deep ethical issue since everyone's opinions will differ regarding who actually owns the land.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudeeeee!

Israel purchased most of its land via the KKL-JNF, go do some research.

Also, refering to our Bible, it is said that Israel belongs to the Jews and it was given to us by God.

Yep, your two last points just collapsed. :3

 

 

Edit: forgot an 'a'.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Windrider

[Arianna]

You honestly think the Palestinians favored Zionism?

What if Native Americans walked onto your land, into your house, kicked you out took all your stuff all at the order of the government? Is it right? (perhaps but its debatable) Would you be happy about it? (hell no) Would you probably use some sort of forceful measure to take back your property? (most likely)

 

So, how can you blame the Palestinians? They are simply taking back what THEY believe is rightfully theirs. Whether this is the case or not, is not for me to say but this topic makes it seem as though they are being savages. Also remember Jews did nothing to earn the land of Israel. They did not conquer it, they did not discover it (at least the modern Jews) and they did not purchase it. Again this is an extremely deep ethical issue since everyone's opinions will differ regarding who actually owns the land.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudeeeee!

Israel purchsed most of its land via the KKL-JNF, go do some research.

Also, refering to our Bible, it is said that Israel belongs to the Jews and it was given to us by God.

Yep, your two last points just collapsed. :3

God gave your house to me. You have one hour to leave the premises.

 

By the way:

 

 

Hmmmmmm.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Arianna

[Goglmogl]

You honestly think the Palestinians favored Zionism?

What if Native Americans walked onto your land, into your house, kicked you out took all your stuff all at the order of the government? Is it right? (perhaps but its debatable) Would you be happy about it? (hell no) Would you probably use some sort of forceful measure to take back your property? (most likely)

 

So, how can you blame the Palestinians? They are simply taking back what THEY believe is rightfully theirs. Whether this is the case or not, is not for me to say but this topic makes it seem as though they are being savages. Also remember Jews did nothing to earn the land of Israel. They did not conquer it, they did not discover it (at least the modern Jews) and they did not purchase it. Again this is an extremely deep ethical issue since everyone's opinions will differ regarding who actually owns the land.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudeeeee!

Israel purchsed most of its land via the KKL-JNF, go do some research.

Also, refering to our Bible, it is said that Israel belongs to the Jews and it was given to us by God.

Yep, your two last points just collapsed. :3

God gave your house to me. You have one hour to leave the premises.

 

By the way:

 

 

Hmmmmmm.

That was the plan... It failed! :D

1948=/=2011

Remember, Israel has been attacked a lot more than you'd think. We don't start war. :3

[Egghebrecht]

You honestly think the Palestinians favored Zionism?

What if Native Americans walked onto your land, into your house, kicked you out took all your stuff all at the order of the government? Is it right? (perhaps but its debatable) Would you be happy about it? (hell no) Would you probably use some sort of forceful measure to take back your property? (most likely)

 

So, how can you blame the Palestinians? They are simply taking back what THEY believe is rightfully theirs. Whether this is the case or not, is not for me to say but this topic makes it seem as though they are being savages. Also remember Jews did nothing to earn the land of Israel. They did not conquer it, they did not discover it (at least the modern Jews) and they did not purchase it. Again this is an extremely deep ethical issue since everyone's opinions will differ regarding who actually owns the land.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudeeeee!

Israel purchsed most of its land via the KKL-JNF, go do some research.

Also, refering to our Bible, it is said that Israel belongs to the Jews and it was given to us by God.

Yep, your two last points just collapsed. :3

God gave your house to me. You have one hour to leave the premises.

 

By the way:

 

 

Hmmmmmm.

That was the plan... It failed! :D

1948=/=2011

Remember, Israel has been attacked a lot more than you'd think. We don't start war. :3

and this idiotic simplicity is one of the major signs showing that it still isn't anywhere close to being resolved

 

Palestinia (if you can consider them a group/nation) still launches terrorist attacks, Israel still trows Arabs out of their homes and land to annex, and both sides still don't get any further than saying "NO U!"

 

Although it must be said that the Palestinians tend to draw the shortest straw and that Israel can get away with even the biggest atrocities

Edited May 3, 2011 by Egghebrecht

[Arianna]

That was the plan... It failed! :(

1948=/=2011

Remember, Israel has been attacked a lot more than you'd think. We don't start war. :3

Syria invades Israel in 2012, justification by Assad - and I quote - "2012 != 2011 LOL"

 

:D

 

We don't start war. :3

October 29, 1956: Israel, with support by the UK and France, invades Egypt in which is now called the Suez Crisis.

 

June 6, 1982: Israel invades Lebanon.

 

December 27, 2008: Israel begins bombing urban centres in Gaza strip in retaliation against rockets fired by Hamas militants.

 

In addition, in the 2006 Lebanon war,

During the campaign, the Hezbollah rocket force fired between 3,970 and 4,228 rockets. About 95% of these were 122 mm (4.8 in) Katyusha artillery rockets, which carried warheads up to 30 kg (66 lb) and had a range of up to 30 km (19 mi). An estimated 23% of these rockets hit cities and built-up areas across northern Israel, while the remainder hit open areas.

During the campaign Israel's Air Force flew more than 12,000 combat missions, its Navy fired 2,500 shells, and its Army fired over 100,000 shells. Large parts of the Lebanese civilian infrastructure were destroyed, including 400 miles (640 km) of roads, 73 bridges, and 31 other targets such as Beirut's Rafic Hariri International Airport, ports, water and sewage treatment plants, electrical facilities, 25 fuel stations, 900 commercial structures, up to 350 schools and two hospitals, and 15,000 homes. Some 130,000 more homes were damaged.

 

If that's not starting war, hey, even Mugabe's a benevolent democratic leader!^[1]

 

Also, refering to our Bible, it is said that Israel belongs to the Jews and it was given to us by God

And to return to that quote, 1000BCE =/= 2011.

 

 

 

^[1]which may just be the reason why at the Pope's beatification he wasn't kicked out but merely moved to a back row

[Goglmogl]

That was the plan... It failed! :(

1948=/=2011

Remember, Israel has been attacked a lot more than you'd think. We don't start war. :3

Syria invades Israel in 2012, justification by Assad - and I quote - "2012 != 2011 LOL"

 

:D

 

We don't start war. :3

October 29, 1956: Israel, with support by the UK and France, invades Egypt in which is now called the Suez Crisis.

 

June 6, 1982: Israel invades Lebanon.

 

December 27, 2008: Israel begins bombing urban centres in Gaza strip in retaliation against rockets fired by Hamas militants.

 

In addition, in the 2006 Lebanon war,

During the campaign, the Hezbollah rocket force fired between 3,970 and 4,228 rockets. About 95% of these were 122 mm (4.8 in) Katyusha artillery rockets, which carried warheads up to 30 kg (66 lb) and had a range of up to 30 km (19 mi). An estimated 23% of these rockets hit cities and built-up areas across northern Israel, while the remainder hit open areas.

During the campaign Israel's Air Force flew more than 12,000 combat missions, its Navy fired 2,500 shells, and its Army fired over 100,000 shells. Large parts of the Lebanese civilian infrastructure were destroyed, including 400 miles (640 km) of roads, 73 bridges, and 31 other targets such as Beirut's Rafic Hariri International Airport, ports, water and sewage treatment plants, electrical facilities, 25 fuel stations, 900 commercial structures, up to 350 schools and two hospitals, and 15,000 homes. Some 130,000 more homes were damaged.

 

If that's not starting war, hey, even Mugabe's a benevolent democratic leader!^[1]

 

Also, refering to our Bible, it is said that Israel belongs to the Jews and it was given to us by God

And to return to that quote, 1000BCE =/= 2011.

 

 

 

^[1]which may just be the reason why at the Pope's beatification he wasn't kicked out but merely moved to a back row

It was because we were defending ourselves.

If you read the entire why this war happened, you'll understand.

[Choccy]

It was because we were defending ourselves.

If you read the entire why this war happened, you'll understand.

And the Suez war was not a landgrabbing war? :D

[thepope1322]

It was because we were defending ourselves.

If you read the entire why this war happened, you'll understand.

And the Suez war was not a landgrabbing war? :D

Same for 1967. Israel "pre-empted" an "imminent" Egyptian attack, the same way that Hitler "pre-empted" an "imminent" Polish attack.

[Samurai Kenji]

It was because we were defending ourselves.

If you read the entire why this war happened, you'll understand.

 

I did. I'm sorry but being a country full of falsely entitled White Europeans religious zealot scaredy-cats who don't have the spine to survive in a land known for it's instability and turmoil doesn't mean you get to invade and bomb every one of your neighbors just because they give you funny looks. You know what would happen if I pummeled my neighbor and stole his stuff because he gave me a dirty look and made a few Pearl Harbor comments?? I'd go to jail and people would think I was the over reactive psychopath that I was.

 

EDIT: And that only applies if I actually believed you thought you were "defending yourself", Most (all?) of Israel's wars have just been landgrabs because you aren't content with the piece of land that you were generously given even though you don't deserve any of it.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Samurai Kenji

[Emanick]

It was because we were defending ourselves.

If you read the entire why this war happened, you'll understand.

 

I did. I'm sorry but being a country full of falsely entitled White Europeans religious zealot scaredy-cats who don't have the spine to survive in a land known for it's instability and turmoil doesn't mean you get to invade and bomb every one of your neighbors just because they give you funny looks. You know what would happen if I pummeled my neighbor and stole his stuff because he gave me a dirty look and made a few Pearl Harbor comments?? I'd go to jail and people would think I was the over reactive psychopath that I was.

What if people were firing rockets over the border at you, rather than giving you dirty looks? Would you fire rockets back?

Edited May 3, 2011 by Emanick

[Samurai Kenji]

It was because we were defending ourselves.

If you read the entire why this war happened, you'll understand.

 

I did. I'm sorry but being a country full of falsely entitled White Europeans religious zealot scaredy-cats who don't have the spine to survive in a land known for it's instability and turmoil doesn't mean you get to invade and bomb every one of your neighbors just because they give you funny looks. You know what would happen if I pummeled my neighbor and stole his stuff because he gave me a dirty look and made a few Pearl Harbor comments?? I'd go to jail and people would think I was the over reactive psychopath that I was.

What if people were firing rockets over the border at you, rather than giving you dirty looks? Would you fire rockets back?

 

I would but that doesn't make it right to fire more rockets and invade, annex and lock other people out from their country, especially if I essentially hypothetically dive-bombed smack dab in the middle of their land. The scale of Israel's reaction to things is something that you can interpret differently depending on what you've read and inferred from you're common sense. You seem to feel that the reaction is equal or less than the action, I feel very differently.

 

Even if it were justified though, the existence of Israel is completely ridiculous, it's like a known blood trying to move into a known crip neighborhood and then complaining about getting shot, yes it's bad that he got shot (even if he is a criminal) and yes he shouldn't be condemned more than the original shooter for shooting back, but the easiest solution would be to just go back to the blood neighborhood where he belongs instead of further instigating the problem by stubbornly choosing to stay after being shot half a dozen times.

 

 

EDIT:

I'm not saying the Israel does not have right to the land,

 

Just to clarify for anyone reading my posts, I am.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Samurai Kenji