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Question For A Muslim!

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Hi guys: I was hoping that since this forum has a good number of Muslims on it, one could explain something for me.

 

First of all, I want to say what I THINK I know, so if I'm wrong, please correct me because that will put my confusion to rest:

 

Firstly, Muslims can not eat pork products at all.

Secondly, Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, and they even believe in the virgin Birth of Jesus, and that he was a messenger of Allah. They just do not believe Jesus WAS God/(Allah), and miracles Jesus performed were done by Allah through Jesus, not by Jesus.

 

If those two things are correct, I must ask why Muslims still can not eat pork when Jesus expressly gave permission for people to eat what was previously considered unclean in the Jewish Torah. (Because I'm under the impression these are the same animals.)

 

I am not trying to disprove Religion or the Islamic Faith in any way, I am merely asking out of genuinely curiosity, as the two don't add up in my mind.

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Muslims don't eat pork, the same goes for Jews

 

if were going by the jewish torah(i'm jewish btw) then jews believe in the existance of jesus and the fact but that's were it ends, that's why we don't have the new testament

Edited by _max

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Christians can't touch pig skin, right?

lolofftopic

Edit: I'll ask my friend.

Edited by Fang

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Hi guys: I was hoping that since this forum has a good number of Muslims on it, one could explain something for me.

 

First of all, I want to say what I THINK I know, so if I'm wrong, please correct me because that will put my confusion to rest:

 

Firstly, Muslims can not eat pork products at all.

Secondly, Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, and they even believe in the virgin Birth of Jesus, and that he was a messenger of Allah. They just do not believe Jesus WAS God/(Allah), and miracles Jesus performed were done by Allah through Jesus, not by Jesus.

 

If those two things are correct, I must ask why Muslims still can not eat pork when Jesus expressly gave permission for people to eat what was previously considered unclean in the Jewish Torah. (Because I'm under the impression these are the same animals.)

 

I am not trying to disprove Religion or the Islamic Faith in any way, I am merely asking out of genuinely curiosity, as the two don't add up in my mind.

 

I am not Muslim, however, I have joined a muslim organization, and as a result have complied a modest sum of information through discussions and reading recommended material.

 

Now that you understand my background, and my material knowledge, let us progress to your questions.

 

1. As I understand it, Muhammad outlawed the eating of Pork. As I also understand it, Jesus was a mesanger of god (according to Islam), and while it is true he was a "voice-piece" for Allah to speak through, and guide his actions. He never specifically allowed the eating of Pork. In my experience, I have not learned that Jesus ever over-turned Jewish law. Assumeing he had though, this would not invalidate Muslim law (even though, according to some, Muhammad grounded some aspects of his teachings in Jewish law).

 

Muhammad was a profit who is considered to be higher then Jesus (or rather, closer to Allah.). Therefore, though I cannot seem to recall any specific passage in which Muhammad spoke of not being able to eat Pork, if Muhammad ever did say this, it would automatically "over-turn Jesus's statement", should he have made one.

 

2. A very central aspect of being a Muslim, means that you subplant your own desires to a great extent. The reason you subplant your own desires is so that you can live your life (out of wanting, not being forced. This is one key tennant that some who call themselves Muslim mistake, that is, forcing someone to worship Allah, or worship him in a certain way. This is not the correct way of worship.) as Allah wants you to.

 

Allah, in his wisedom and mercy, laid out sacred Muslim Law in many places. The most holy, and central place, however, is the Quran/ Koran. This is the keystone, the bedrock of holy-law. Following this, there are also the reveared Sunna, or living tradition of the profit Muhammad. Following this is the third key source that many Muslims turn to, the Muslim schollars (both old and modern age. I do not know which is held in more importance, I believe, however, the elder ones may have esteem of belief.), who spent their entire lives trying to understand the laws of God.

 

Following this, we will now look at specific passages of the Quran which forbid the eating of Pork.

 

The first passage is;

 

"He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful" (Al-Baqara, 2:173).

 

As you can see, this passage removes the eating of pork, in any form. However, if a Muslim is going to die, he is allowed to eat pork. This does not mean, if pork comes on a pizza (unless, and this belief varies between Muslims, great offence will be caused) that a Muslim is allowed to eat the Pork. Unless he is starving. Some will be allowed to remove it from food. Others will not eat it at all. And still others will eat it all, as, by necessity, it was required.

 

I hope this helps, and makes somethings clear. I do not have on hand (that I know of) any people who have studied the Koran, and thus might have commentary on it. Sorry. I hope what I have provided helps in someway.

 

~John

Edited by John Adams

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Muslims don't eat pork, the same goes for Jews

 

if were going by the jewish torah(i'm jewish btw) then jews believe in the existance of jesus and the fact but that's were it ends, that's why we don't have the new testament

 

Jews view Jesus as the largest and most damaging false prophet of all time, and as such have a certain distaste for him. Muslims, from what I'm aware, view Jesus as a legitimate prophet sent by God, although not the Messiah or a PART of God, if that makes sense.

 

I'm aware that Jews disregard the New Testament, but I'm horribly versed in the Qu'ran as I haven't read it yet. So I'm just genuinely curious is all.

 

Edit: Thanks John! Just saw your post. I definitely appreciate it.

 

I took another look around for the quote I was thinking of, since I haven't read the New Testament in almost three years.. I found this:

 

In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.

And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."

But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common."

 

So I suppose this means that it was not Jesus who made it clean, but the Christian God by Christian accounts? This would mean that Muslims merely disagree that that conversation with God ever occurred, since it was written by a Christian scholar?

 

Just trying to wrap my head around things!

Edited by Eye

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In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.

And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."

But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common."

 

So I suppose this means that it was not Jesus who made it clean, but the Christian God by Christian accounts? This would mean that Muslims merely disagree that that conversation with God ever occurred, since it was written by a Christian scholar?

Muslims don't accept the New Testament as accurate or true, so I think they would just say that there was no such conversation. I believe they believe certain parts of the New Testament are true, but the book in it's current state is unreliable and innacurate. This doesn't mean that it was a "ruling" of the "Christian God," as the "Muslim God" and "Christian God" aren't separate entities. I think Muslims would mean that it is a mistaken belief about the Abrahamic god.

Edited by heb0

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Christians can't touch pig skin, right?

lolofftopic

Edit: I'll ask my friend.

Christians? No, they can.

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Christians can't touch pig skin, right?

lolofftopic

Edit: I'll ask my friend.

Christians? No, they can.

 

Zooey:

Leviticus 11:7-8

New International Version (NIV)

7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.

8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

 

 

@OP

Jesus (as per the belief of both christians and muslims) confirmed the Torah's doctrines and principles, whilst abrogating a few of its more strict laws. Other than that, all the commandmants of God in the Torah had to be obeyed as Jesus is supposed to have said in Matthew's gospel. And never did Jesus permit Pork in the message he brought.

 

Besides that, Islam confirmed a divine origin for both Judaism and Christianity whilst abrogating some of the rules and customs of both. The Gospels were written over a century after Jesus's departure and much of the material isn't considered reliable (especially the other books of the New Testament excluding the four Gospels). We believe Jesus was given a holy scripture by God but this scripture is non-existent in the New Testament and now all we have are biographies of Jesus' life; and we certainly don't ascribe a divine authority to these writings.

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Christians can't touch pig skin, right?

lolofftopic

Edit: I'll ask my friend.

Christians? No, they can.

 

Zooey:

Leviticus 11:7-8

New International Version (NIV)

7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.

8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

 

 

@OP

Jesus (as per the belief of both christians and muslims) confirmed the Torah's doctrines and principles, whilst abrogating a few of its more strict laws. Other than that, all the commandmants of God in the Torah had to be obeyed as Jesus is supposed to have said in Matthew's gospel. And never did Jesus permit Pork in the message he brought.

 

Besides that, Islam confirmed a divine origin for both Judaism and Christianity whilst abrogating some of the rules and customs of both. The Gospels were written over a century after Jesus's departure and much of the material isn't considered reliable (especially the other books of the New Testament excluding the four Gospels). We believe Jesus was given a holy scripture by God but this scripture is non-existent in the New Testament and now all we have are biographies of Jesus' life; and we certainly don't ascribe a divine authority to these writings.

Leviticus 11 was in reference to Jews, not the gentiles.

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Christians can't touch pig skin, right?

lolofftopic

Edit: I'll ask my friend.

Christians? No, they can.

 

Zooey:

Leviticus 11:7-8

New International Version (NIV)

7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.

8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

 

 

@OP

Jesus (as per the belief of both christians and muslims) confirmed the Torah's doctrines and principles, whilst abrogating a few of its more strict laws. Other than that, all the commandmants of God in the Torah had to be obeyed as Jesus is supposed to have said in Matthew's gospel. And never did Jesus permit Pork in the message he brought.

 

Besides that, Islam confirmed a divine origin for both Judaism and Christianity whilst abrogating some of the rules and customs of both. The Gospels were written over a century after Jesus's departure and much of the material isn't considered reliable (especially the other books of the New Testament excluding the four Gospels). We believe Jesus was given a holy scripture by God but this scripture is non-existent in the New Testament and now all we have are biographies of Jesus' life; and we certainly don't ascribe a divine authority to these writings.

Leviticus 11 was in reference to Jews, not the gentiles.

More specifically jewish priests, it doesn't apply to any christians too much :(

 

Besides that pork might have been outlawed by Muhammad, I believe the christian revoke of the old testament rule came to peter in a dream after the death of Jesus. So, no there is no conflict.

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In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.

And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."

But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common."

 

So I suppose this means that it was not Jesus who made it clean, but the Christian God by Christian accounts? This would mean that Muslims merely disagree that that conversation with God ever occurred, since it was written by a Christian scholar?

Muslims don't accept the New Testament as accurate or true, so I think they would just say that there was no such conversation. I believe they believe certain parts of the New Testament are true, but the book in it's current state is unreliable and innacurate. This doesn't mean that it was a "ruling" of the "Christian God," as the "Muslim God" and "Christian God" aren't separate entities. I think Muslims would mean that it is a mistaken belief about the Abrahamic god.

 

I put "Christian God" in quotes because Muslims view Allah differently than Christians view God, although I realize the are the same entity. Anyways, all around interesting thoughts, I'd still love to hear from an actual Muslim.

Edited by Eye

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In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.

And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."

But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common."

 

So I suppose this means that it was not Jesus who made it clean, but the Christian God by Christian accounts? This would mean that Muslims merely disagree that that conversation with God ever occurred, since it was written by a Christian scholar?

Muslims don't accept the New Testament as accurate or true, so I think they would just say that there was no such conversation. I believe they believe certain parts of the New Testament are true, but the book in it's current state is unreliable and innacurate. This doesn't mean that it was a "ruling" of the "Christian God," as the "Muslim God" and "Christian God" aren't separate entities. I think Muslims would mean that it is a mistaken belief about the Abrahamic god.

I put "Christian God" in quotes because I Muslims view Allah differently than Christians view God, although I realize the are the same entity. Anyways, all around interesting thoughts, I'd still love to hear from an actual Muslim.

Oh, okay--sorry for the confusion. That probably should have been obvious. :(

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Christians can't touch pig skin, right?

lolofftopic

Edit: I'll ask my friend.

Christians? No, they can.

 

Zooey:

Leviticus 11:7-8

New International Version (NIV)

7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.

8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

 

 

@OP

Jesus (as per the belief of both christians and muslims) confirmed the Torah's doctrines and principles, whilst abrogating a few of its more strict laws. Other than that, all the commandmants of God in the Torah had to be obeyed as Jesus is supposed to have said in Matthew's gospel. And never did Jesus permit Pork in the message he brought.

 

Besides that, Islam confirmed a divine origin for both Judaism and Christianity whilst abrogating some of the rules and customs of both. The Gospels were written over a century after Jesus's departure and much of the material isn't considered reliable (especially the other books of the New Testament excluding the four Gospels). We believe Jesus was given a holy scripture by God but this scripture is non-existent in the New Testament and now all we have are biographies of Jesus' life; and we certainly don't ascribe a divine authority to these writings.

Leviticus 11 was in reference to Jews, not the gentiles.

Wait, if the Old Testament applies to the Jews, why

 

  • is it still included in the Christian bible
  • is it called upon oodles of times to justify "thou shalt not buttsex", yet discarded when it is convenient to do so (see above)
  • are the Ten Commandments (Old Testament) still the 'fundamental law' for Christianity

Edited by Arianna

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Bacon is the tastiest food ever. Islam brothers are missing out.

 

Eating something due to faith is silly.

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TL;DR, before this thread turns into arguing and citing Quran texts:

 

Religion is silly and it has stupid rules. Don't try to argue because you can't win against "It is written".

 

Anyway, relevant:

 

8Z8t6.jpg

Edited by Kwinten

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Christians can't touch pig skin, right?

lolofftopic

Edit: I'll ask my friend.

Christians? No, they can.

 

Zooey:

Leviticus 11:7-8

New International Version (NIV)

7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.

8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

 

 

@OP

Jesus (as per the belief of both christians and muslims) confirmed the Torah's doctrines and principles, whilst abrogating a few of its more strict laws. Other than that, all the commandmants of God in the Torah had to be obeyed as Jesus is supposed to have said in Matthew's gospel. And never did Jesus permit Pork in the message he brought.

 

Besides that, Islam confirmed a divine origin for both Judaism and Christianity whilst abrogating some of the rules and customs of both. The Gospels were written over a century after Jesus's departure and much of the material isn't considered reliable (especially the other books of the New Testament excluding the four Gospels). We believe Jesus was given a holy scripture by God but this scripture is non-existent in the New Testament and now all we have are biographies of Jesus' life; and we certainly don't ascribe a divine authority to these writings.

Leviticus 11 was in reference to Jews, not the gentiles.

Wait, if the Old Testament applies to the Jews, why

 

  • is it still included in the Christian bible
  • is it called upon oodles of times to justify "thou shalt not buttsex", yet discarded when it is convenient to do so (see above)
  • are the Ten Commandments (Old Testament) still the 'fundamental law' for Christianity

The Old Testament was primarily included because 1) readers needed to know what the writers of the New Testament had to read, 2) to show the parallels between the prophecies of the Messiah and Jesus, and 3) because it's nice to have some context either way.

 

The Ten Commandments are by and large still the fundamental rules of Christianity, but the death penalty from many Levitican offenses is by virtue removed in the death of Jesus on the cross.

 

Furthermore, one of the main things about the Old Testament is that it sharply contrasts with the New Testament—Jesus says several times in the Gospels that the greatest commandments were to love God and love your neighbor. Essentially, love God by following him, and love others by…well…loving them. Regardless of if their hair is green or they are men who like men or what. Love does not mean wanton acceptance—but it does mean that the likes of Westboro Baptist are not doing a good chance of representing Christ in all that they do.

 

Finally, as for the food question, Peter's experience in Joppa is operative.

 

TL;DR, before this thread turns into arguing and citing Quran texts:

 

Religion is silly and it has stupid rules. Don't try to argue because you can't win against "It is written".

 

Anyway, relevant:

 

8Z8t6.jpg

There is still much debate over whether or not the Bible considers women inferior, with the side of it doesn't gaining a lot of ground with recent manuscript discoveries.

 

The only place in the New Testament where the Bible indicates women are inferior is that they shouldn't preach but it's damn near impossible to reckon, based on the text, if Paul only had a culture of the time in mind and wanted gradual integration of women, or if he thought that should be a permanent thing (he thought the former of slavery, it is very clear in Philemon).

Edited by Demon Jelly

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I'm not gonna argue about female inferiority because those people were all just children of their time and gender equality has only recently been really established.

 

What that says about a supposed moral guidebook for your life, I'll leave entirely to you though. Female inferiority is established from the very start of the bible in Genesis, so I always find it funny to see women who are Creationists.

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I'd just like to throw it out there that this is all getting rather off the point of why Muslims can't eat pork, giving they give a lot of weight to Jesus.

 

Just don't want to see my thread turn into another religious debate, when there's other topics more suited for that in.. the debate room. :(

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Little thing on Islam and Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, much like Moses, Elijah, etc. However, they do NOT believe that Jesus was the son of God - this is contrary to their very principles. In the Qu'ran, it says that "Allah does not beget." The idea of Allah begetting a human son could be compared to a man having sex with a lesser species. That's sort of the gist of it. Obviously they are not saying that the Christian God commits bestiality or something, but that's the best analogy I could come up with.

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Muslims don't eat pig as it is an unclean animal, all the Muslims I've ever asked on why they don't eat pig is beacause it apparently rolls around in it's own crap, so when we eat pig were theoretically eating it's crap, and in Islam staying clean is important. It is also a cultural thing as well since if you go to southern asian countries no one eats pork, even the non-muslims, the same goes for beef as well, although Muslims are allowed to eat it, many still don't.

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Muslims don't eat pig as it is an unclean animal, all the Muslims I've ever asked on why they don't eat pig is beacause it apparently rolls around in it's own crap, so when we eat pig were theoretically eating it's crap, and in Islam staying clean is important. It is also a cultural thing as well since if you go to southern asian countries no one eats pork, even the non-muslims, the same goes for beef as well, although Muslims are allowed to eat it, many still don't.

Pigs usually don't have the space to "roll around" in their crap anyways though.

 

And I mean, it's not like you're eating the skin. The piggy's muscles are very clean.

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I'm not gonna argue about female inferiority because those people were all just children of their time and gender equality has only recently been really established.

 

What that says about a supposed moral guidebook for your life, I'll leave entirely to you though. Female inferiority is established from the very start of the bible in Genesis, so I always find it funny to see women who are Creationists.

 

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her"

 

And if objective blame [for offenses against the dignity of women], especially in particular historical contexts, has belonged to not just a few members of the Church, for this I am truly sorry. May this regret be transformed, on the part of the whole Church, into a renewed commitment of fidelity to the gospel vision. When it comes to setting women free from every kind of exploitation and domination, the gospel contains an ever relevant message that goes back to the attitude of Jesus Christ himself. Transcending the established norms of his own culture, Jesus treated women with openness, respect, acceptance, and tenderness. In this way he honored the dignity that women have always possessed according to God’s plan and in his love. As we look to Christ at the end of this second millennium, it is natural to ask ourselves: How much of his message has been heard and acted upon?

 

I admit, there have been times when the Church has failed or treated women unfairly. We are a Church on sinners and we will continue to falter. But the short-comings and failures of Christians over the century doesn't take away from the fact that Jesus loved women, that his Church viewed them equal in baptism and that they are just as good in the eyes of God as men. Aquinas wrote against the abuse of women in marriage, Gregory of Nazianz wrote against inequality in laws concerning marriages in his time. They were driven to write such because of their faith and their belief that God loves all his people.

 

Take it from a committed Christian when I say we value women. We respect women. We call the Church "mother", I and others call Mary "Queen" and she is viewed as the greatest example of a Christian life and faith.. Some of the greatest saints and figures in our history were women who were . Many of the first Christians who penetrated the upper-class were women, attracted to the message of Christ bout the relationship of the two genders. Please try to look pass your prejudice against faith and see how we are a people that love women and hold them to high regard.

 

PS - I know this has nothing to do with the OP topic. I just wanted to let that out.

Edited by Phoenix Rider

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We respect women. We call the Church "mother"
Wouldn't that be a contradiction? :(

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Muslims don't eat pig as it is an unclean animal, all the Muslims I've ever asked on why they don't eat pig is beacause it apparently rolls around in it's own crap, so when we eat pig were theoretically eating it's crap, and in Islam staying clean is important. It is also a cultural thing as well since if you go to southern asian countries no one eats pork, even the non-muslims, the same goes for beef as well, although Muslims are allowed to eat it, many still don't.

Pigs usually don't have the space to "roll around" in their crap anyways though.

 

And I mean, it's not like you're eating the skin. The piggy's muscles are very clean.

ohi, Ohi, ohi.

 

 

Pigs fester with disease

Shush you I don't want to believe that. Okay, piggies are dirty. They can carry diseases which humans may catch upon consuming them. That begs the question which mass consumed animal doesn't have that chance, especially, like you say, when poorly prepared.

 

Also, you gotta be batshizzle insane to eat pork skin, Lilshu. That's disgusting and you deserve the disease.

 

After all, all of Europe was rolling around in crap just a few hundred years ago.

It all got better as soon as those British folks moved to some other island.

 

Take it from a committed Christian when I say we value women. We respect women. We call the Church "mother", I and others call Mary "Queen" and she is viewed as the greatest example of a Christian life and faith.. Some of the greatest saints and figures in our history were women who were . Many of the first Christians who penetrated the upper-class were women, attracted to the message of Christ bout the relationship of the two genders. Please try to look pass your prejudice against faith and see how we are a people that love women and hold them to high regard.

I do not doubt that you value women. However, saying the bible or christianity in general was ever a pillar of equal rights is a far stretch. But I'm glad you guys love your women now.

 

I forgot how we even came to this topic but I'll just leave it at that.

Edited by Kwinten

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There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

Such oppressive and fascist language! :(

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