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Proof Of God II: Electric Boogaloo

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Damn you for reviving this theking! With lilshu and Goggie posting and the sweeping generalisations of error, I'm tempting to post. I promised myself I'll be a good boy and not do this debate anymore!

Yesss, come to the dark side. You can feeling it calling, can't you? Mwahaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

 

It is completely possible to believe in a deity without being in a religious community. Also @ king, of course it isn't harmful, because you can believe in a deity without being religious.

Your first comment depends very much on the religion. Some (including me) would argue that a religious community is so important to Christians that it is almost necessary. Again, depends.

 

Your second comment is very odd; how can you believe in a deity and not be religious?

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Damn you for reviving this theking! With lilshu and Goggie posting and the sweeping generalisations of error, I'm tempting to post. I promised myself I'll be a good boy and not do this debate anymore!

Yesss, come to the dark side. You can feeling it calling, can't you? Mwahaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

 

It is completely possible to believe in a deity without being in a religious community. Also @ king, of course it isn't harmful, because you can believe in a deity without being religious.

Your first comment depends very much on the religion. Some (including me) would argue that a religious community is so important to Christians that it is almost necessary. Again, depends.

 

Your second comment is very odd; how can you believe in a deity and not be religious?

There was a pretty popular video about a year ago going on about "Why I love Jesus, but hate religion". Some people view religion as a separate thing. There's the relationship with the deity and then there's the religion side.

 

Who really cares, though.

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Damn you for reviving this theking! With lilshu and Goggie posting and the sweeping generalisations of error, I'm tempting to post. I promised myself I'll be a good boy and not do this debate anymore!

Yesss, come to the dark side. You can feeling it calling, can't you? Mwahaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

 

It is completely possible to believe in a deity without being in a religious community. Also @ king, of course it isn't harmful, because you can believe in a deity without being religious.

Your first comment depends very much on the religion. Some (including me) would argue that a religious community is so important to Christians that it is almost necessary. Again, depends.

 

Your second comment is very odd; how can you believe in a deity and not be religious?

How can you not? If you believe there is a higher power, 'up there' and do not believe in any form of organised religion, I would not consider you to be religious. For example, I believe in an afterlife, many would consider me to be religious, but I consider myself not to be.

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Damn you for reviving this theking! With lilshu and Goggie posting and the sweeping generalisations of error, I'm tempting to post. I promised myself I'll be a good boy and not do this debate anymore!

Yesss, come to the dark side. You can feeling it calling, can't you? Mwahaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

 

It is completely possible to believe in a deity without being in a religious community. Also @ king, of course it isn't harmful, because you can believe in a deity without being religious.

Your first comment depends very much on the religion. Some (including me) would argue that a religious community is so important to Christians that it is almost necessary. Again, depends.

 

Your second comment is very odd; how can you believe in a deity and not be religious?

There was a pretty popular video about a year ago going on about "Why I love Jesus, but hate religion". Some people view religion as a separate thing. There's the relationship with the deity and then there's the religion side.

 

Who really cares, though.

(Also @404) I remember that video, and the discussion :P You're completely entitled to believe organised religion and religion are separate, but while you can believe in a deity without organised religion, you can't believe in a deity without plain religion, because that's basically what believing in a deity is. If you believe in a deity, you're religious. If you disagree, fine; it's a definition, and the ensuing debate would a of the semantic kind, ie. the most useless one.

Edited by reepicheep

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Damn you for reviving this theking! With lilshu and Goggie posting and the sweeping generalisations of error, I'm tempting to post. I promised myself I'll be a good boy and not do this debate anymore!

Yesss, come to the dark side. You can feeling it calling, can't you? Mwahaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

 

It is completely possible to believe in a deity without being in a religious community. Also @ king, of course it isn't harmful, because you can believe in a deity without being religious.

Your first comment depends very much on the religion. Some (including me) would argue that a religious community is so important to Christians that it is almost necessary. Again, depends.

 

Your second comment is very odd; how can you believe in a deity and not be religious?

There was a pretty popular video about a year ago going on about "Why I love Jesus, but hate religion". Some people view religion as a separate thing. There's the relationship with the deity and then there's the religion side.

 

Who really cares, though.

(Also @404) I remember that video, and the discussion :P You're completely entitled to believe organised religion and religion are separate, but while you can believe in a deity without organised religion, you can't believe in a deity without plain religion, because that's basically what believing in a deity is. If you believe in a deity, you're religious. If you disagree, fine; it's a definition, and the ensuing debate would a of the semantic kind, ie. the most useless one.

Fair enough, if you consider religion to be basic beliefs such as one's own belief in a deity or afterlife, then religion is fine. What is not fine, is organisations of religion who indoctrinate people. I also think that organised religion is now obsolete, thanks to one's own beliefs and the fact that you can still have all the positive effects from religion without it.

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Damn you for reviving this theking! With lilshu and Goggie posting and the sweeping generalisations of error, I'm tempting to post. I promised myself I'll be a good boy and not do this debate anymore!

Yesss, come to the dark side. You can feeling it calling, can't you? Mwahaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

 

It is completely possible to believe in a deity without being in a religious community. Also @ king, of course it isn't harmful, because you can believe in a deity without being religious.

Your first comment depends very much on the religion. Some (including me) would argue that a religious community is so important to Christians that it is almost necessary. Again, depends.

 

Your second comment is very odd; how can you believe in a deity and not be religious?

There was a pretty popular video about a year ago going on about "Why I love Jesus, but hate religion". Some people view religion as a separate thing. There's the relationship with the deity and then there's the religion side.

 

Who really cares, though.

(Also @404) I remember that video, and the discussion :P You're completely entitled to believe organised religion and religion are separate, but while you can believe in a deity without organised religion, you can't believe in a deity without plain religion, because that's basically what believing in a deity is. If you believe in a deity, you're religious. If you disagree, fine; it's a definition, and the ensuing debate would a of the semantic kind, ie. the most useless one.

Fair enough, if you consider religion to be basic beliefs such as one's own belief in a deity or afterlife, then religion is fine. What is not fine, is organisations of religion who indoctrinate people. I also think that organised religion is now obsolete, thanks to one's own beliefs and the fact that you can still have all the positive effects from religion without it.

I agree that indoctrination is bad. However, indoctrination is 1: Not localised to religion, 2: Unavoidable, 3: Generally not an actual issue.

Organised religion is also not obsolete, because knowing people who share your faith is actually very important to keeping your faith, having people to tell you when you're not doing what's right according to whatever holy book, etc.

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Damn you for reviving this theking! With lilshu and Goggie posting and the sweeping generalisations of error, I'm tempting to post. I promised myself I'll be a good boy and not do this debate anymore!

 

Haha, i'm afraid my undergrad module on the Later Roman Empire which focuses heavily on the growth of Christianity may have soured me a little. Unfortunately the explosion of Christianity is what caused a lot of the mess that we still have over religious scripture and what is the 'official line' of religion. It'd be nice if people actually knew more about Christianity in antiquity, they'd realise how much of what they believe is only there because history is written by the victors :P

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Damn you for reviving this theking! With lilshu and Goggie posting and the sweeping generalisations of error, I'm tempting to post. I promised myself I'll be a good boy and not do this debate anymore!

Satan told me to.

Edited by theking1322

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In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.

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In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.

- Neil DeGrasse Tyson

 

What a beautiful quote, encapsulates everything perfectly.

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That's more a perspective than any actual argument. And besides, you can be enlightened by intelligence and be religious; they're not mutually exclusive.

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I don't know. I mean, I'm not a professional quote-maker by any means, but I think that quote is at least enough to qualify me for a PhD of atheism. Eh?

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It should be noted that I've upvoted every single person who's disagreed with me here, as far as I know.

 

That said.

 

In 7th grade, I took an SAT test without preparing for it at all, it was spur-of-the-moment, I knew about it about an hour ahead of time and didn't do any research or anything. I scored higher on it than the average person using it to apply for college in my area.

 

An IQ test has shown me to be in the 99.9th percentile for IQ. This is the highest result the test I was given reaches; anything further and they'd consider it to be within the margin of error for that test.

My mother's boyfriend of 8 years is an aerospace engineer who graduated Virginia Tech. At the age of 15, I understand physics better than him, and I owe very little of it to him, as he would rarely give me a decent explanation of anything, just tell me that my ideas were wrong and become aggravated with me for not quite understanding thermodynamics. He's not particularly successful as an engineer, but I've met lots of other engineers who aren't as good as me at physics, so I'm guessing that's not just a result of him being bad at it.

 

I'm also pretty good at engineering. I don't have a degree, and other than physics I don't have a better understanding of any aspect of engineering than any actual engineer, but I have lots of ingenuity for inventing new things. For example, I independently invented regenerative brakes before finding out what they were, and I was only seven or eight years old when I started inventing wireless electricity solutions (my first idea being to use a powerful infrared laser to transmit energy; admittedly not the best plan).

 

I have independently thought of basically every branch of philosophy I've come across. Every question of existentialism which I've seen discussed in SMBC or xkcd or Reddit or anywhere else, the thoughts haven't been new to me. Philosophy has pretty much gotten trivial for me; I've considered taking a philosophy course just to see how easy it is.

 

Psychology, I actually understand better than people with degrees. Unlike engineering, there's no aspect of psychology which I don't have a very good understanding of. I can debunk many of even Sigmund Freud's theories.

 

I'm a good enough writer that I'm writing a book and so far everybody who's read any of it has said it was really good and plausible to expect to have published. And that's not just, like, me and family members, that counts strangers on the Internet. I've heard zero negative appraisal of it so far; people have critiqued it, but not insulted it.

I don't know if that will suffice as evidence that I'm intelligent. I'm done with it, though, because I'd rather defend my maturity, since it's what you've spent the most time attacking. The following are some examples of my morals and ethical code.

 

I believe firmly that everybody deserves a future. If we were to capture Hitler at the end of WWII, I would be against executing him. In fact, if we had any way of rehabilitating him and knowing that he wasn't just faking it, I'd even support the concept of letting him go free. This is essentially because I think that whoever you are in the present is a separate entity from who you were in the past and who you are in the future, and while your present self should take responsibility for your past self's actions, it shouldn't be punished for them simply for the sake of punishment, especially if the present self regrets the actions of the past self and feels genuine guilt about them.

 

I don't believe in judgement of people based on their personal choices as long as those personal choices aren't harming others. I don't have any issue with any type of sexuality whatsoever (short of physically acting out necrophilia, pedophilia, or other acts which have a harmful affect on others - but I don't care what a person's fantasies consist of, as long as they recognize the difference between reality and fiction and can separate them). I don't have any issue with anybody over what type of music they listen to, or clothes they wear, etc. I know that's not really an impressive moral, but it's unfortunately rare; a great many people, especially those my age, are judgmental about these things.

 

I love everyone, even people I hate. I wish my worst enemies good fortune and happiness. Rick Perry is a vile, piece of shizzle human being, deserving of zero respect, but I wish for him to change for the better and live the best life possible. I wish this for everyone.

 

I'm pretty much a pacifist. I've taken a broken nose without fighting back or seeking retribution, because the guy stopped punching after that. The only time I'll fight back is if 1) the person attacking me shows no signs of stopping and 2) if I don't attack, I'll come out worse than the other person will if I do. In other words, if fighting someone is going to end up being more harmful to them than just letting them go will be to me, I don't fight back. I've therefore never had a reason to fight back against anyone in anything serious, because my ability to take pain has so far made it so that I'm never in a situation where I'll be worse off after a fight. If I'm not going to get any hospitalizing injuries, I really don't care.

 

The only exception is if someone is going after my life. Even then, I'll do the minimum amount of harm to them that I possibly can in protecting myself. If someone points a gun at me and I can get out of it without harming them, I'd prefer to do that over killing them.

 

I consider myself a feminist. I don't believe in enforced or uniform gender roles; they may happen naturally, but they should never be coerced into happening unnaturally. As in, the societal pressure for gender roles should really go, even if it'll turn out that the majority of relationships continue operating the same way of their own accord. I treat women with the same outlook I treat men, and never participate in the old Reddit "women are crazy" circlejerk, because there are multiple women out there and each have different personalities just like there are multiple men out there and each with different personalities. I don't think you do much of anything except scare off the awesome women out there by going on and on about the ones who aren't awesome.

 

That doesn't mean I look for places to victimize women, I just don't believe it's fair to make generalizations such as the one about women acting like everything's OK when it's really not (and that's a particularly harsh example, because all humans do that).

 

I'm kind of tired of citing these examples and I'm guessing you're getting tired of reading them, if you've even made it this far. In closing, the people who know me in real life all respect me, as do a great many people in the Sals brony community, where I spend most of my time and where I'm pretty known for being helpful around the community. A lot of people in my segment of the community are depressed or going through hard times, and I spend a lot of time giving advice and support to people there. Yesterday someone quoted a case of me doing this in a post asking everyone what their favorite motivational/inspirational quote was, and that comment was second to the top, so I guess other people agreed (though, granted, it was a pretty low-traffic post, only about a dozen competing comments).

 

And, uh, I'm a pretty good moderator.

 

All that, and I think your behavior in this thread was totally assholish. So what do you think, now that you at least slightly know me?

 

Edited by theking1322

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I don't even understand the merits of debating this. Most people have the convictions they have because of their upbringing and the formative events of their first twenty or so years. People who believe in god and people who don't believe in god are existing on two totally separate thought systems. This debate is perhaps the most large scale example of apples and oranges.

 

-----

 

However, I do need to add a relevant personal experience.

 

So I was standing in a rather large line at my local Wal-Mart today behind a couple families that I know from when I went to church with my family in year younger. It was the only register open so there wasn't much of another option to get my 12 pack of Mountain Dew for a party I was heading to. I was wondering why the line was going nowhere when I decided to poke my head up front to see what the holdup was. It was a little old lady who didn't have enough for her groceries and she was trying to talk the cashier into letting her get away with being short. This struck me as odd until I found out she was a mere $0.21 short of her purchase. Now all these families were just staring and there was even two making fun of her. I walked up and handed my soda to the cashier, handed him a $5 and told her to keep the change. One of the middle aged women (I knew these people, so I also knew that they all make over 6 digits) grabbed her kid and yelled very loudly, "See that man? He's acting just like Jesus wants us to." For some reason this set me off, so I turned around. I haven't shaved in awhile so I'm rocking some nice scruff, a Slayer shirt, and gym shorts, so it must have been a nice sight. Very loudly, I said "Like Jesus? Ma'am I'm an atheist who makes minimum wage and I was the one who stepped up to help her? Your hypocritical Christianity is an inspiration to us all." As I stormed out, a couple of the cart boys started to whistle and cheer, soon shoppers joined in and even the cashier. I gave a wave and went off with a feeling of accomplishment.

Edited by Samsara

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Refer to my previous post.

 

Seriously, anymore, god-debate threads just seem to turn into a two-sided circlejerk with religious people glorifying themselves over how pious they are in one corner by being normal, not-jerk people and atheists crowing about how they're SO MORAL WITHOUT GOD by just being normal, not-jerk people.

 

That doesn't just go for Sals either that's just the internet in general.

 

However, I do need to add a relevant personal experience.

 

So I was standing in a rather large line at my local Wal-Mart today behind a couple families that I know from when I went to church with my family in year younger. It was the only register open so there wasn't much of another option to get my 12 pack of Mountain Dew for a party I was heading to. I was wondering why the line was going nowhere when I decided to poke my head up front to see what the holdup was. It was a little old lady who didn't have enough for her groceries and she was trying to talk the cashier into letting her get away with being short. This struck me as odd until I found out she was a mere $0.21 short of her purchase. Now all these families were just staring and there was even two making fun of her. I walked up and handed my soda to the cashier, handed him a $5 and told her to keep the change. One of the middle aged women (I knew these people, so I also knew that they all make over 6 digits) grabbed her kid and yelled very loudly, "See that man? He's acting just like Jesus wants us to." For some reason this set me off, so I turned around. I haven't shaved in awhile so I'm rocking some nice scruff, a Slayer shirt, and gym shorts, so it must have been a nice sight. Very loudly, I said "Like Jesus? Ma'am I'm an atheist who makes minimum wage and I was the one who stepped up to help her? Your hypocritical Christianity is an inspiration to us all." As I stormed out, a couple of the cart boys started to whistle and cheer, soon shoppers joined in and even the cashier. I gave a wave and went off with a feeling of accomplishment.

Congratulations, you were a needless jerk to another person and basically r/atheism'd the hell out, in public no less.

 

Would you like a cookie?

Edited by Thomas Jefferson

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However, I do need to add a relevant personal experience.

 

So I was standing in a rather large line at my local Wal-Mart today behind a couple families that I know from when I went to church with my family in year younger. It was the only register open so there wasn't much of another option to get my 12 pack of Mountain Dew for a party I was heading to. I was wondering why the line was going nowhere when I decided to poke my head up front to see what the holdup was. It was a little old lady who didn't have enough for her groceries and she was trying to talk the cashier into letting her get away with being short. This struck me as odd until I found out she was a mere $0.21 short of her purchase. Now all these families were just staring and there was even two making fun of her. I walked up and handed my soda to the cashier, handed him a $5 and told her to keep the change. One of the middle aged women (I knew these people, so I also knew that they all make over 6 digits) grabbed her kid and yelled very loudly, "See that man? He's acting just like Jesus wants us to." For some reason this set me off, so I turned around. I haven't shaved in awhile so I'm rocking some nice scruff, a Slayer shirt, and gym shorts, so it must have been a nice sight. Very loudly, I said "Like Jesus? Ma'am I'm an atheist who makes minimum wage and I was the one who stepped up to help her? Your hypocritical Christianity is an inspiration to us all." As I stormed out, a couple of the cart boys started to whistle and cheer, soon shoppers joined in and even the cashier. I gave a wave and went off with a feeling of accomplishment.

Congratulations, you were a needless jerk to another person and basically r/atheism'd the hell out, in public no less.

 

Would you like a cookie?

 

Relax dude, I was just quoting an infamous r/atheism post.

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However, I do need to add a relevant personal experience.

 

So I was standing in a rather large line at my local Wal-Mart today behind a couple families that I know from when I went to church with my family in year younger. It was the only register open so there wasn't much of another option to get my 12 pack of Mountain Dew for a party I was heading to. I was wondering why the line was going nowhere when I decided to poke my head up front to see what the holdup was. It was a little old lady who didn't have enough for her groceries and she was trying to talk the cashier into letting her get away with being short. This struck me as odd until I found out she was a mere $0.21 short of her purchase. Now all these families were just staring and there was even two making fun of her. I walked up and handed my soda to the cashier, handed him a $5 and told her to keep the change. One of the middle aged women (I knew these people, so I also knew that they all make over 6 digits) grabbed her kid and yelled very loudly, "See that man? He's acting just like Jesus wants us to." For some reason this set me off, so I turned around. I haven't shaved in awhile so I'm rocking some nice scruff, a Slayer shirt, and gym shorts, so it must have been a nice sight. Very loudly, I said "Like Jesus? Ma'am I'm an atheist who makes minimum wage and I was the one who stepped up to help her? Your hypocritical Christianity is an inspiration to us all." As I stormed out, a couple of the cart boys started to whistle and cheer, soon shoppers joined in and even the cashier. I gave a wave and went off with a feeling of accomplishment.

Congratulations, you were a needless jerk to another person and basically r/atheism'd the hell out, in public no less.

 

Would you like a cookie?

Relax dude, I was just quoting an infamous r/atheism post.
…I'm going to assume everything is a reddit comment repost from now on.

 

This is like the sixth time I've seen this happen now.

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Why is this topic still up again?

 

So that new members can stumble in here, and we can shout at them.

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Why is this topic still up again?

 

So that new members can stumble in here, and we can shout at them.

 

Or we could watch them go at it and laugh from a distance and I'll try really, really hard not to join in.

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