Getting rid of the upvote/downvote system

[Ramon]

I worked hard for my 10 upvotes. :mad:

Edited August 17, 2012 by Ramon

[Yuanrang]

Also, I feel like most of the posts that are downvoted are posted by newer members of the forum. Seeing that everyone is downvoting their posts just makes them feel alienated by the community and may stop visiting. I think most respectable members on this forum now made some stupid posts in the beginning. I know that if downvoting was around when I first joined I would have been downvoted to hell. So I think we should also consider that.

If it's not downvoting, then it's going to be a slew of snide, cruel responses which are equally likely to alienate. I think I'm with Phoenix Rider here- the problem isn't the system but the jerks using the system in a negative manner.

Which is why it was struck down on.

 

The system works in theory, but with any system, it is the users that decide how successful it is.through how they use it. There will always be forum members making a living out of alienating and mocking fellow forum members. The difference with the downvoting system is that they can do it directly without having to post. If they had posted in such a way that they harass and alienate a forum member, they would just be warned and suspended. Then some people think "Hey, I can just systematically abuse someone by downvoting them instead without being warned for it!", and so they did that. The simple solution is to just punish for it as it basically is harassment.

 

That is not to say that downvotes are bad. There are bad posts and there are posts that people disagree with, and that is what downvotes is for, but when someone downvote the same person multiple times a day (up to the daily limit) for posts that do not deserve it, then that is abuse and excessive abuse will be met with an appropriate response, at least if I am the one moderating.

 

Personally, I believe the system will work. I really do, but it requires people to use it like normal people and not with the mindset of a jerk. If people feel abused by someone downvoting me, drop me a PM and I will look into it. If you are being downvote-abused, I will take care of it. That is a guarantee if it is a legit concern, for as long as I am active and we has a anti-harassment policy within the Staff. :P

 

(On a personal note, I really like the idea of finding a way to separate the popularity vote from personal profiles, and only work on posts themselves. IE: You upvote/downvote the post itself, not the person behind it. Sadly, I do not think this is easily done without finding a modification for it, or Sal making one from scratch if no such thing exist. :/ )

Edited August 17, 2012 by Yuanrang

[PaladinPker]

Wow... it's been a long time since I've been on... and you guys got up and down votes? :o

 

Anyways, here's my input on the whole thing, obtained from looking around at various threads and experience on RSC, where they have had a "rep" system for a good while now.

 

I believe, first and foremost, that there is nothing inherently wrong with a upvote/downvote system; many of you seem to agree. The problem arises due to the persistent abusers of this system. This abuse can be attributed to two things:

 

1) The novelty of the system: This system has only been in place for a month - naturally, when a child gets a new toy, they want to play with it. However, over time, as the sheen of the excitement of pressing upvote and downvote wears off, I think we won't have a situation similar to the one I see in this thread, where very few posts still have a "0" next to them. The system has only been in place for a month; give it a bit of a chance.

 

2) Community size: Our community is still rather small. Someone earlier mentioned Aabid (he knows I like him fine most of the time, so hopefully he won't mind me mentioning his name). In a community this small, most of us have been here a while, and those who are new are often...enthusiastic. Aabid is one of these, but note that here on sals, we don't get that many enthusiastic new posters, so he sticks out. Thus, a lot of us accuse him of "spamming" and systematically downvote him. However, imagine a situation in which there are 1000 Aabids, named Aabid000 to Aabid999. Now, they may all like to post a lot, but no one of them will stick out and accrue so much hatred, and therefore won't be "bullied," so to speak.

 

I believe that reputation can be a very useful tool when not abused. For one thing, reputation is often a good incentive to post good tips, for those who actually do care about those upvotes, posting tips and being helpful in questions and such things are a good way to get them. Another good way would be galleries and skill logs, both of which are constructive things; good ones get lots of upvotes (grrr why didn't we implement this while I still had one! haha). Downvotes hurting a reputation are also helpful because they might cause a user to think twice before posting, considering whether or not they're saying something truly unnecessary or stupid, so as to avoid posting junk that is going to get downvoted like crazy.

 

Give reputation a chance. (Apparently) we asked for it, and we shouldn't just disenchant ourselves with it after a single month. Stick it out for a bit and see how it goes.

[Micael Fatia]

Hey Paladin, welcome back!

 

I too feel the best solution would be removing the reputation system, but if that's not possible then at least get rid of the downvote button. I've seen posts that deserve being downvoted to hell and I'm sure most of you have too, but unfortunately there are people that have been abusing the system by downvoting all the posts of the members they don't like/want to bother for whatever reason. As much as I'd like to be able to downvote a retarded post once in a while I think it's clear as water that the cons of the downvote button outweigh the pros.

 

The reason we switched from a simple "Like" system to Up/Down votes was due to members saying that liking a post is useless without a Dislike option too. Which makes sense sometimes when a post really deserves to be voted down. Obviously certain members have been abusing the system, unfortunately.

Right, but I think the problem is that you forgot about the silent majority (at least I believe we're the majority, my apologies if I'm wrong) that was happy with only having the upvote button.

 

get warn threats for disagreeing with a post

 

get warn threats for downvoting

 

wow.

More like

 

get warn threats for abusing the downvote system

 

get warned/suspended for continuing abusing the downvote system

 

yep.

 

no.

Great response, 9/10 would read again.

We both know you're only disagreeing with me because you're friends with the members that got suspended. I really have nothing against them, actually I think they're both pretty funny most of the time but it's a fact they deserved their suspension and I'm sure they know it. Yuan made it pretty clear he was going to start warning the people abusing the downvote system and what did they do? They started downvoting all of Yuan's posts. I mean really? Come on give me a break... they were begging for it.

[Conspicuous]

Hey Paladin, welcome back!

 

I too feel the best solution would be removing the reputation system, but if that's not possible then at least get rid of the downvote button. I've seen posts that deserve being downvoted to hell and I'm sure most of you have too, but unfortunately there are people that have been abusing the system by downvoting all the posts of the members they don't like/want to bother for whatever reason. As much as I'd like to be able to downvote a retarded post once in a while I think it's clear as water that the cons of the downvote button outweigh the pros.

 

The reason we switched from a simple "Like" system to Up/Down votes was due to members saying that liking a post is useless without a Dislike option too. Which makes sense sometimes when a post really deserves to be voted down. Obviously certain members have been abusing the system, unfortunately.

Right, but I think the problem is that you forgot about the silent majority (at least I believe we're the majority, my apologies if I'm wrong) that was happy with only having the upvote button.

 

get warn threats for disagreeing with a post

 

get warn threats for downvoting

 

wow.

More like

 

get warn threats for abusing the downvote system

 

get warned/suspended for continuing abusing the downvote system

 

yep.

 

no.

Great response, 9/10 would read again.

We both know you're only disagreeing with me because you're friends with the members that got suspended. I really have nothing against them, actually I think they're both pretty funny most of the time but it's a fact they deserved their suspension and I'm sure they know it. Yuan made it pretty clear he was going to start warning the people abusing the downvote system and what did they do? They started downvoting all of Yuan's posts. I mean really? Come on give me a break... they were begging for it.

 

no i was talking from personal experience, nothing about my friends as that is a different subject. I'm not allowed to openly disagree with a member via posting in a topic because its considered "flaming". So I use the downvote system as it allows me to not get banned but wait! Even though I can provide legitimate reasons for why I downvote, it's considered bullying(?!?!?!). there's ur explaination :~)

[Micael Fatia]

no i was talking from personal experience, nothing about my friends as that is a different subject. I'm not allowed to openly disagree with a member via posting in a topic because its considered "flaming". So I use the downvote system as it allows me to not get banned but wait! Even though I can provide legitimate reasons for why I downvote, it's considered bullying(?!?!?!). there's ur explaination :~)

It is considered 'bullying' if you downvote every single of that member's posts (including perfectly fine posts) just because you don't like that member.

[Conspicuous]

no i was talking from personal experience, nothing about my friends as that is a different subject. I'm not allowed to openly disagree with a member via posting in a topic because its considered "flaming". So I use the downvote system as it allows me to not get banned but wait! Even though I can provide legitimate reasons for why I downvote, it's considered bullying(?!?!?!). there's ur explaination :~)

It is considered 'bullying' if you downvote every single of that member's posts (including perfectly fine posts) just because you don't like that member.

 

as i said

 

I can provide legitimate reasons for downvoting ANY post or do i have to post why I did it every time I downvote someones post? cos that defeats the entire system of downvoting and I have not downvoted every single post of any particular member, at least get your statistics right :/

[Micael Fatia]

So why did you downvote the following two posts:

http://runescape.sal...s/#entry4066014

http://runescape.sal...s/#entry4065258

 

I could find more examples of other Aabid posts that received lots of downvotes for no reason at all, but I cba.

 

Edit: And to clear something up as there seems to be some sort of misunderstanding here, I never accused you of having 'bullied' Aabid (or any other member) by downvoting all of his posts, but let's be serious you did downvote a lot of his posts including posts like the above two that are normal non-spammy posts (at least they seem pretty 'normal' to me). If you didn't do it because you dislike him, then why?

Edited August 24, 2012 by Micael Fatia

[Conspicuous]

So why did you downvote the following two posts:

http://runescape.sal...s/#entry4066014

http://runescape.sal...s/#entry4065258

 

I could find more examples of other Aabid posts that received lots of downvotes for no reason at all, but I cba.

 

Edit: And to clear something up as there seems to be some sort of misunderstanding here, I never accused you of having 'bullied' Aabid (or any other member) by downvoting all of his posts, but let's be serious you did downvote a lot of his posts including posts like the above two that are normal non-spammy posts (at least they seem pretty 'normal' to me). If you didn't do it because you dislike him, then why?

 

first post

 

hes asked that question so many bloody times and a simple google search can resolve his queries, but he does this all the time, which deserves a dislike

 

second one, roy asked for a pic of someone hitting over 1m, aabid did not provide and since im not allowed to post in disagreement to anything aabid says with fear of getting warned, or in my case a suspension I disliked. :) keep them coming

[Micael Fatia]

first post

 

hes asked that question so many bloody times and a simple google search can resolve his queries, but he does this all the time, which deserves a dislike

Since when is that a valid reason to dislike his post? You can simply ignore it, it's not like your forced to read and answer all of his question topics.

 

second one, roy asked for a pic of someone hitting over 1m, aabid did not provide and since im not allowed to post in disagreement to anything aabid says with fear of getting warned, or in my case a suspension I disliked. :) keep them coming

Big deal he misread Roy's post, definitely worth a downvote. Imagine I had been the one making that mistake, would you have downvoted my post?

Edited August 24, 2012 by Micael Fatia

[Conspicuous]

first post

 

hes asked that question so many bloody times and a simple google search can resolve his queries, but he does this all the time, which deserves a dislike

Since when is that a valid reason to dislike his post? You can simply ignore it, it's not like your forced to read and answer all of his question topics.

 

is what he did not considered spam?

 

second one, roy asked for a pic of someone hitting over 1m, aabid did not provide and since im not allowed to post in disagreement to anything aabid says with fear of getting warned, or in my case a suspension I disliked. :) keep them coming

Big deal he misread Roy's post, definitely worth a downvote. Imagine I had been the one making that mistake, would you have downvoted my post?

 

no because i consider you as my friend, and i do not consider aabid as a friend

[Leo]

no because i consider you as my friend, and i do not consider aabid as a friend

 

Now that just sounds like personal prejudice, a grudge at the least.

[Lonelywolf]

i disliked his posts because it is my revenge for the many times he inboxed me asking for gp or what his name should be ;_;

 

edit: and even at that i only disliked 3 or something posts

 

edit 2: and they were only posts that were ridiculously pointless like that beret one

Edited August 25, 2012 by Lonely

[Conspicuous]

no because i consider you as my friend, and i do not consider aabid as a friend

 

Now that just sounds like personal prejudice, a grudge at the least.

 

you act as if thats unusual in these forums, if you think it's unusual then sir, you have a lot to learn

 

EDIT:

 

and im pretty sure you wouldn't appreciate someone who you tell in a post to stop spamming the same questions over and over again to then pming you a 30 question exam on rs. twice and then asking question like do u bot and other crap like that.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Conspicuous

[Leo]

no because i consider you as my friend, and i do not consider aabid as a friend

 

Now that just sounds like personal prejudice, a grudge at the least.

 

you act as if thats unusual in these forums, if you think it's unusual then sir, you have a lot to learn

 

EDIT:

 

and im pretty sure you wouldn't appreciate someone who you tell in a post to stop spamming the same questions over and over again to then pming you a 30 question exam on rs. twice and then asking question like do u bot and other crap like that.

 

I'm quite aware people on this forum have feelings, thank you. I just don't think it's fair to take it out on them. If you have a problem with their posting and repetitive spamming, why not take it up more directly either via PM or with a mod if it doesn't stop? And like Micael said, you could just ignore any posts or threads he makes in the future if it really bothers you that much.

[Conspicuous]

no because i consider you as my friend, and i do not consider aabid as a friend

 

Now that just sounds like personal prejudice, a grudge at the least.

 

you act as if thats unusual in these forums, if you think it's unusual then sir, you have a lot to learn

 

EDIT:

 

and im pretty sure you wouldn't appreciate someone who you tell in a post to stop spamming the same questions over and over again to then pming you a 30 question exam on rs. twice and then asking question like do u bot and other crap like that.

 

I'm quite aware people on this forum have feelings, thank you. I just don't think it's fair to take it out on them. If you have a problem with their posting and repetitive spamming, why not take it up more directly either via PM or with a mod if it doesn't stop? And like Micael said, you could just ignore any posts or threads he makes in the future if it really bothers you that much.

 

the world has told aabid not to spam

take it up with a mod?? tried that, it seems like it didn't work

and I think aabid understands that pming me isnt a good idea at this current time :~)

Finally, I find it frustrating that I answer one of aabids questions thoroughly, his topic gets locked because his question is answered then he opens another topic asking the same question but reworded. it is very frustrating

[Leo]

no because i consider you as my friend, and i do not consider aabid as a friend

 

Now that just sounds like personal prejudice, a grudge at the least.

 

you act as if thats unusual in these forums, if you think it's unusual then sir, you have a lot to learn

 

EDIT:

 

and im pretty sure you wouldn't appreciate someone who you tell in a post to stop spamming the same questions over and over again to then pming you a 30 question exam on rs. twice and then asking question like do u bot and other crap like that.

 

I'm quite aware people on this forum have feelings, thank you. I just don't think it's fair to take it out on them. If you have a problem with their posting and repetitive spamming, why not take it up more directly either via PM or with a mod if it doesn't stop? And like Micael said, you could just ignore any posts or threads he makes in the future if it really bothers you that much.

 

the world has told aabid not to spam

take it up with a mod?? tried that, it seems like it didn't work

and I think aabid understands that pming me isnt a good idea at this current time :~)

Finally, I find it frustrating that I answer one of aabids questions thoroughly, his topic gets locked because his question is answered then he opens another topic asking the same question but reworded. it is very frustrating

 

True, your last reason is probably a legit one for downvoting posts. But maybe it was cause he didn't fully understand the answer given to him in the first thread and felt it necessary to open a second one? (I'm not taking sides, just trying to figure out why he did it).

 

 

As for Aabid himself (it might just be my lack of activity), but I've noticed he's been 'spamming' a lot less recently or has at least been making more meaningful posts/threads lately. So maybe he's realized that and people will downvote his posts less.

[Conspicuous]

no because i consider you as my friend, and i do not consider aabid as a friend

 

Now that just sounds like personal prejudice, a grudge at the least.

 

you act as if thats unusual in these forums, if you think it's unusual then sir, you have a lot to learn

 

EDIT:

 

and im pretty sure you wouldn't appreciate someone who you tell in a post to stop spamming the same questions over and over again to then pming you a 30 question exam on rs. twice and then asking question like do u bot and other crap like that.

 

I'm quite aware people on this forum have feelings, thank you. I just don't think it's fair to take it out on them. If you have a problem with their posting and repetitive spamming, why not take it up more directly either via PM or with a mod if it doesn't stop? And like Micael said, you could just ignore any posts or threads he makes in the future if it really bothers you that much.

 

the world has told aabid not to spam

take it up with a mod?? tried that, it seems like it didn't work

and I think aabid understands that pming me isnt a good idea at this current time :~)

Finally, I find it frustrating that I answer one of aabids questions thoroughly, his topic gets locked because his question is answered then he opens another topic asking the same question but reworded. it is very frustrating

 

True, your last reason is probably a legit one for downvoting posts. But maybe it was cause he didn't fully understand the answer given to him in the first thread and felt it necessary to open a second one? (I'm not taking sides, just trying to figure out why he did it).

 

 

As for Aabid himself (it might just be my lack of activity), but I've noticed he's been 'spamming' a lot less recently or has at least been making more meaningful posts/threads lately. So maybe he's realized that and people will downvote his posts less.

 

Thats the dream!!!

[Nitua]

I don't like the "up-vote/down-vote"system at all. I see no need for it. If you don't like someone's post you can always reply to that post or PM the person. There is already a kind of caste system (might not be the right word) with post count and whatnot, this only hurts that problem. :/

 

I'd suggest moving to only "up-votes" if not completely scrapping the system.

[error404]

I like the system the way it is. Obviously, there will be abusers, but that can be dealt with in a similar manner we deal with other offences - with the report button.

[reepicheep]

Now that people aren't abusing it, I really do like this system. It saves me the time and frustration from explaining why I think a post is dumb, which usually only serves to detract from the thread anyway.

 

In response to Big Tree's post: there's not really a caste system. Dumb posts get downvotes, good posts get upvotes. People are using it like they should from what I've seen. I haven't seen anyone care about how many posts you have in a good four years, and I haven't seen anyone care about how many reputation points they've received (besides Admiral! :P).

I think he's referring to the number of posts everybody has. It impressed me at first, too, but at this point I don't even think about it.

[Smilefishy]

I like the system it makes me feel good to get upvotes :)

[bros before hoes]

Guys... Bottom line is Cyber Bullying is not good. It's almost as bad as sexual predators or even criminals. We cannot let this disease take over our glorious forum that values honest friendship and brotherhood.

[Nitua]

In response to Big Tree's post: there's not really a caste system. Dumb posts get downvotes, good posts get upvotes. People are using it like they should from what I've seen. I haven't seen anyone care about how many posts you have in a good four years, and I haven't seen anyone care about how many reputation points they've received (besides Admiral! :P).

I haven't been active in the forums for a long time (and in saying that, it is good to be back :) ) so perhaps I'm a poor judge on this. In retrospect I think you're probably right. I'm still not a fan of it, but I don't think its a big deal if it stays or goes.

[Fake]

So why did you downvote the following two posts:

http://runescape.sal...s/#entry4066014

http://runescape.sal...s/#entry4065258

 

I could find more examples of other Aabid posts that received lots of downvotes for no reason at all, but I cba.

 

Edit: And to clear something up as there seems to be some sort of misunderstanding here, I never accused you of having 'bullied' Aabid (or any other member) by downvoting all of his posts, but let's be serious you did downvote a lot of his posts including posts like the above two that are normal non-spammy posts (at least they seem pretty 'normal' to me). If you didn't do it because you dislike him, then why?

 

first post

 

hes asked that question so many bloody times and a simple google search can resolve his queries, but he does this all the time, which deserves a dislike

So if a simple google search can resolve his queries I guess everyone in that forum should get a down vote for asking a question because google can solve all of their queries as well.