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Bestiality

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I mostly meant unnatural in the sense that nature probably did not intend for completely different species that cannot actually impregnate others (thankfully unless you're into that sort of stuff I suppose?) to have sex.

If nature didn't intend it (don't you believe in a God?), there wouldn't be humans who are sexually attracted to other species.

>implying nature is completely free of glitches

 

That's a cute sentiment, but under a theistic worldview there is evil in the world, which causes deviations from the natural.

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I think there are enough problems with the question of consent with human beings without the added problem of communicating or even theorising about 'consent' with animals. That the question of 'consent' in sexual intercourse between humans is so frequently a debate and rape culture are prevalent in society makes me think that going into the details of animal consent is a step too far, and unlikely to yield any satisfactory answer. In an ideal world, where the animal truly consented to it and the human consented to it, I can't see a problem with it, other than my overriding urge to think that it's 'wrong' in a way that I can't really explain, probably just the conditioning that i've received from society to think that it's wrong.

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@@Phoenix Rider, your main argument stems from animals not able to give consent. I feel that animals can and do give consent. So if you think it's okay to raise livestock but not have sex with animals [because they can't consent], you've contradicted yourself.

 

Yes, there are people that forcefully have sex with animals, but the same can be said for humans. There are times where the animal has a choice in the matter. I do not believe in your link between bestiality and paedophilia because children aren't sexually mature whilst animals are, therefore why deny the pleasure of two consenting, adult beings?

 

Firstly, what are your views on raising livestock for slaughter?

 

Here's my partial rebuttal though. Animals at most can give a "passive" consent but certainly not informed and voluntary. Animals do not have the cognitive faculties to achieve that level of higher thinking.

 

If you give animals the ability for informed and voluntary consent then human children, being able to think on a higher level, would have it too and thus it would make a 7 year old seeking sexual pleasure from her abusive relative a means to justify paedophilia. Children can and do give that form of consent, at a far higher level than animals do, yet we bloody well don't tolerate it.

 

And what makes biological maturity suddenly the benchmark for moral, sexual practice. If that were the case then menopause women and old men (who are passed their age of sexual activity) having sex would be immoral because their biological make up suggests that they shouldn't be doing it.

 

I'd prefer if we didn't have to slaughter livestock for food, but it's a necessary evil in the world so that's that.

 

Again, I feel there's a difference between an adult animal and a human child. The former is sexually mature whilst children are not even remotely aware of what they are doing.

 

kamil r u standing up 4 people who want to have the dance with no pants with animals?

 

thats not the only thing thats standing up :eyebrows:

 

I mostly meant unnatural in the sense that nature probably did not intend for completely different species that cannot actually impregnate others (thankfully unless you're into that sort of stuff I suppose?) to have sex.

If nature didn't intend it (don't you believe in a God?), there wouldn't be humans who are sexually attracted to other species.

>implying nature is completely free of glitches

 

That's a cute sentiment, but under a theistic worldview there is evil in the world, which causes deviations from the natural.

 

Yeah that was a stupid comment to make :P

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I don't know if you guys mentioned it already but how does an animal give full consent? My cat will often jump on my bed and rub her face with mine and purr but I doubt that means that she wants to engage in sex...

 

Or does she? :box:

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I don't know if you guys mentioned it already but how does an animal give full consent? My cat will often jump on my bed and rub her face with mine and purr but I doubt that means that she wants to engage in sex...

 

Or does she? :box:

 

if a dog sticks its penis in your bum bum i think it wants it

Edited by Conspicous

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Why does it even matter if the animal "wants" to engage in sex? Desire is not consent. A 15 year old can desire a 20 year old as much as they want, but it doesn't mean they are able to legally give consent. This is one of those topics where I can't imagine a good argument for the "pro" side.

Edited by Adam?

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Rather than argue the legality of the situation, I think the more fun debate is "What causes people to be zoophilic?" Were they just born that way, or is it how they were raised?

Well, that's kind of an unanswerable question. Sort of like "What causes people to be homosexual?" Were they just born that way, or is it how they were raised?

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Rather than argue the legality of the situation, I think the more fun debate is "What causes people to be zoophilic?" Were they just born that way, or is it how they were raised?

Well, that's kind of an unanswerable question. Sort of like "What causes people to be homosexual?" Were they just born that way, or is it how they were raised?

That's what I was alluding to.

 

Oh well... :box:

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If you want to avoid hating me more so than you already do, do refrain from reading the following text. Very unpopular and ostensibly outrageous opinions will appear. -.-

 

Firstly, we can't simply dismiss this as silly and move on, or rather base your argument on those grounds. Obviously the idea of intercourse between human and animal appears ridiculous, but so have numerous ideas of freedom throughout the ages. To the typical elderly conservative today, the notion of homosexuality is even more ridiculous. Back before the Civil Rights Era, you wouldn't believe the persecution that gays suffered under an intolerant mainstream belief. Alan Turing, an incredibly influential person in multiple fields (without whom you may very well not be using a computer) ultimately died as a result of his sexual orientation; he committed suicide due to the chemical treatment he was forced to take as an alternative to incarceration. Because he had an unpopular sexual view. We, and we in particular, evidently view the hatred toward homosexuals as unjustifiable and close-minded. However, there is little more reason to hate upon zoophiliacs than homosexuals.#diggingmyowngrave

In other words, and I'm not targeting anyone specifically, please show some open-mindedness when it comes to these situations. Perhaps when the persecution toward gays is solved and tolerance achieved, the debate of bestiality will come up when we're all old conservatives. :P

 

In the face of open-mindedness, let's therefore revert to the most basic principle of morality: doing the most good for everybody. "Everybody" includes animals, of course. -.-

If the person benefits from it and the animal benefits from it and it does no harm unto others, there is no evil. Relevantly, Louis C.K. emphasizes the complication of such matters by the opposing group while maintaining the more simplistic notion previously mentioned. -strong language warning- Therefore, we obviously have to dive into how the animal is harmed by this (or the human, but there doesn't yet seem to be any disagreement that a zoophiliac likes to do zoophiliac things). The primary argument in support of the animal's detriment is comparison with pedophilia. Now I'm sure we all know the fundamental rule of debates, which states that you can't base your stance by simply comparing one matter to another, but in the context of something which many deem silly, I'll forgive that and target the aforementioned debate. Here's an example:

Why does it even matter if the animal "wants" to engage in sex? Desire is not consent. A 15 year old can desire a 20 year old as much as they want, but it doesn't mean they are able to legally give consent. This is one of those topics where I can't imagine a good argument for the "pro" side.

First off, we should do away with the subconscious idea that legality equals morality. I'm sure we can all agree that no government, not even/only ours, is perfectly just :P.

Second, focusing upon the last sentence, an opposer of bestiality should form an argument against it rather than refute an argument for it. If there's a neutral zone, a zoophiliac may not do good anybody in the act, but he or she wouldn't be doing harm, for which one can't say is immoral. Therefore, the adversary of bestiality must prove it immoral rather than wait for the "pro" to prove it moral.

Now getting to the matter of this comparison-argument, there's a difference between pedophilia and bestiality. Intercourse at such a young age for a child will ruin his or her sexual foundation, leading to consequent problems later in life. Evident today, those who've been molested as children don't tend to live normally throughout teenage and quite possibly later adult years. It could be a consensual and desirable act when it happens, but the mental contingencies are the harm which classifies it as wrong. That is the injustice of pedophilia. Apart from that, (unpopular view incoming!), I see nothing wrong so long as both parties are receiving gratification.

As far as my knowledge goes, animals won't receive the mental scar of sexual intercourse with a human. Both parties benefit. It isn't the equivalent of pedophilia. No injustice is inflicted upon either participant. Nor is any detriment placed upon outsiders, so as Louis C.K. said earlier, "it doesn't have any affect on your life."

 

lamp

Edited by Flutterguy

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You are a species of animal, with a brain to know that sex with a different species is not the optimum way to conceive offspring. But you are also an animal that enjoys sex, regardless of whether or not you want any offspring from that. You can't say it's the same way in example the way dogs have sex, dogs don't know the difference if they hump a leg or try to have sex with a cat. Same for the majority of animals. Instinct over what is logical.

 

Instinct will allow another animal to have sex with you, but that doesn't mean if it had the thinking capacity to understand that it still would. The one thing that gets in the way for humans is that sex is a pleasure factor. Without that, you almost eliminate sex with other animals, because you only have the desire to mate. Which is best performed with your own kind.

 

You're going against the fundamental and best way to have sex, which is with another human. So I'd say...Yes, it's wrong. The weird thing is, there are people out there that will say "It doesn't hurt the animal, and it helps me, so why is it wrong?" If the animal knew what was happening other than instinct, the animal wouldn't actively try to seek humans out to mate with.

 

How would you determine if an animal consents or not?

If you didn't know any better, you'd consent if your mind told you it was time to mate.

 

To sum up. Just because you can doesn't mean you should, or that it's efficient. You wouldn't hammer in a screw, it's just not logical.

Edited by Fatalysm

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What about zoonosis? Isn't it rather dangerous to have sexual intercourse with an animal? STDs, exposure to semen or vaginal fluids, urine, saliva, faeces or blood. What about bites, injury and trauma? Allergic reactions?

 

Would there need to be tests for animal STDs?

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You are a species of animal, with a brain to know that sex with a different species is not the optimum way to conceive offspring. [...] You're going against the fundamental and best way to have sex, which is with another human. So I'd say...Yes, it's wrong.

So homosexuality is wrong?

Okay smartass :P.

 

If you aren't intending to use sex to reproduce, it's not the primary function. Human homosexual relationships are based on pleasure. What I'm going to say isn't meant to offend you, just bear with me.

 

Sex between homosexuals isn't the correct way to have sex in the intended way for reproduction. But it is natural to want to have sex and want to give pleasure regardless of the gender. It's not wrong to be homosexual, just not intended.

 

It's now very difficult for me to tell me others why it's wrong to have sex with animals. The thoughts are there but they are non sensical.

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Sex between homosexuals isn't the correct way to have sex in the intended way for reproduction. But it is natural to want to have sex and want to give pleasure regardless of the gender. It's not wrong to be homosexual, just not intended.

Since when was nature a sentient being that has intentions? :blink:

It's not, but are you saying there is a more logical way to have children and that vaginal intercourse is not the best way to reproduce for a human?

 

Literally all I said was that there was nothing wrong with homosexuality, just that it wasn't intended for reproduction.

 

Are you saying it's okay to have sex with animals? :huh:

 

Perhaps I'm overstating the way of nature saying that reproduction and the continuation of humans could be the wrong thing to do...Just seemed, like the logical step. I hate these conversations, they hurt my brain places. :P

Edited by Fatalysm

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This baby zorse wants to know what's wrong with cross-species off-spring:

 

zony01.jpg

 

And so do these ligers:

 

aries-liger-cub-hercules-picture.jpg

 

And this faun:

 

tumnus_faun_satyr.jpg

Crossed animals are almost always sterile, it's nature's way of getting rid of the "mistake".

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Welp, Merch has officially won the topic :xd:

 

But are they always sterile?

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And so a serious thread on philosophy, morality, ethics and law turns into an animal imageboard. :xd:

 

Thanks @Merch Gwyar! ;)

Edited by Phoenix Rider

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Welp, Merch has officially won the topic :xd:

 

But are they always sterile?

Depends on the cross. Tigers and lions are similar enough. Some people think humans and chimps could be made to work. Depends how similar the animals are on the chromosome level.

 

Tigers and lions are close enough that they can create offspring that can breed. Horses and donkeys are close enough that they can create offspring, but it won't breed. Humans and horses can't create an offspring.

Edited by FREEDOM

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We should get back onto the topic of whether bestiality should be legal. I still think no.

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We should get back onto the topic of whether bestiality should be legal. I still think no.

But you're from New Zealand :cute:

 

And I agree. I think there are very few circumstances in which it should be okay to have sex with an animal.

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And I agree. I think there are very few circumstances in which it should be okay to have sex with an animal.

 

:blink:

 

Please enlighten us all on what those circumstances are. :P .

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And I agree. I think there are very few circumstances in which it should be okay to have sex with an animal.

 

:blink:

 

Please enlighten us all on what those circumstances are. :P .

Um...

Well...

...I've got nothing :P

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