Importance of a Higher Education

[zooey]

I've ran into a fair number of people (surprisingly a larger amount in Texas) that believe college is worthless and even consider it to be a scam. What are y'alls stances on the worth of an education from a college/university?

 

(sorry if this isn't done right I've never posted here before)

Edited June 24, 2013 by Zooey

[reepicheep]

I think higher education is far from worthless (I mean it'd hardly be smart for me to be doing something that I consider to be worthless) but then again I think that sometimes people overstate its importance. But without higher education, you lack mathematicians, the most important kind of people. And there are of course chemists, physicists. You know, they're there, but you don't really notice them

 

For serious though: university is important, but not for everyone. The way it works in the Netherlands is that we have university, HBO, and MBO. There's more variation, but that's the basics. MBO is really hands on teaching so that you can get jobs like, say, an assistant at a vet. HBO is between university and MBO, and HBO is more theoretical but still at a lower level than uni.

In a system like that, higher education is always worth it. University itself, not always.

[Sobend]

For purposes of finding a good job: it depends on what you major in. So for those purposes I would say that if you are smart and take advantage of higher education yes it is advantageous. There are exceptions though. For example I heard that if you started working for UPS right after high school and retire at a certain age you would make more money than the average college graduate. (no source sorry!)

 

I think that the difference between higher education schools is also not as big as it is made out to be. As long as the school is good you should have a good shot of doing well. For example take two (actual) schools: Penn State and the University of Pennsylvania. One (Penn State) is a good, but not great, state school and the other (UPenn) is a very prestigious, ivy league private school. Even though UPenn is much more expensive than Penn State, the average Penn State grad makes roughly the same amount of money as the UPenn grad. So the average person would be better off going to Penn State in the long haul. A lot of kids when I was in high school (literally) cried because on decision day because they didn't get into Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, yada yada. There isn't much of a reason to be upset about this. When you grow up, nobody gives a crap about where you went to school. They care about you.

 

Sorry for my tangent up there :P.

[William Howard Taft]

It all depends on your pre-existing skill set.

 

Someone with a lot of computer skills or who taught themselves a ton about cryptography can go work for a company like Booz Allen Hamilton for $200,000/year with just a high school diploma, for instance (Edward Snowden did this on a GED, if you don't believe me).

 

Someone with a lot of business knowledge can start a business with just a high school diploma and be very successful (many internet successful startups have been started by people with just a high school education).

 

I'm of the opinion that you should only go to college if your preferred career field will earn back the money to pay it off. Even then, if your dream field is IT or business, maybe you shouldn't bother.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Thomas Jefferson

[Hunter]

Depends what you do. But certainly, it's not worthless - the fact you have achieved a degree of some sort speaks for itself.

 

However, there is the point that while it gives you technical knowhow in an area, you still have no experience working. In that fashion, if you don't play your cards right, it is worthless, as you will still be without a job.

 

So yeah, plan ahead, and it's an important step to earning more money, or at least opening the job market up (for example I'd rather work as a Physicist with a PhD, only managing £16K/year than to work at McDonalds for £21K/year. Physicists are paid shizzle-all).

[20000_Posts]

Completely depends on the person. Maybe a more formal education isn't what someone wants, maybe they just want a hands on experience from a 2 year trade school, learn construction/drywalling/diesel mechanics/etc. then get into the field and get on with their lives. A lot of fields will always have a demand that can't be outsourced (mechanics, electricians) and they make pretty decent money so why not just get started?

[Cxkslei]

It's basically been devalued by people that expect people to pay for a degree for four years, then do 3 years of unpaid internships before they can apply to a decent job. Until the job market switches from an employers market to an employees market, the cost of universities and colleges is going to rise faster than inflation while the rest of our money (wages) continues to stagnate and be worth far less than what it was in the past. It does provide a good learning experience however.

[20000_Posts]

It's basically been devalued by people that expect people to pay for a degree for four years, then do 3 years of unpaid internships before they can apply to a decent job. Until the job market switches from an employers market to an employees market, the cost of universities and colleges is going to rise faster than inflation while the rest of our money (wages) continues to stagnate and be worth far less than what it was in the past. It does provide a good learning experience however.

The market is way too big to judge all jobs and all new employees. Area of expertise plays a massive role.

[Cxkslei]

It's basically been devalued by people that expect people to pay for a degree for four years, then do 3 years of unpaid internships before they can apply to a decent job. Until the job market switches from an employers market to an employees market, the cost of universities and colleges is going to rise faster than inflation while the rest of our money (wages) continues to stagnate and be worth far less than what it was in the past. It does provide a good learning experience however.

The market is way too big to judge all jobs and all new employees. Area of expertise plays a massive role.

 

Providing it was actually being valued. Jobs being exported to other countries purely do to cheaper labor is a problem, and the fact that they are willing to work for so little is also a problem. Most of the people that I know that graduated in Comp Sci, ended up going Indie, or working on like 10 different Open Source projects before they found anyone willing to even talk to them. Keep in mind also more people are staying and working longer than they did before so they are also preventing new slots from opening up for the youth.

[Toto]

Some dude at Six Flags the other day told me and my friends that College is a waste of time and we should go straight into the workforce.

[thepope1322]

It depends - if you hate school, don't want to study any academic topics and have some kind of practical skill like cooking, fixing cars or making furniture, you might be better off skipping college and becoming a chef, auto mechanic or carpenter. Not everyone is going to be a teacher, scientist, banker or engineer. If you despise education, you might very well be wasting your time if you go to college.

 

You certainly shouldn't be going to college with the sole aim of getting a degree in something, anything, since that generally leads to people who are disappointed and pissed off that their degree won't automatically get them a six figure salary. Or worse, they spend thousands of dollars and then drop out due to lack of motivation.

 

On the flip side, the line that "if you don't go to college you're a loser and you've failed at life" is also false. Many people do fine without having gone to college - what's important is having skills that you can offer to the economy, either in the form of being employed or starting your own business. College is just one way of acquiring those skills.

Edited June 25, 2013 by theking1322

[Lonelywolf]

do you guys have something like TAFE which is university for like chefs and builders and stuff but more hands on and tradie kind of stuff

[Shooter585]

I think higher education is overrated, at least in the United States. Higher education is more or less expected of you when you graduate from high school. I think only several people in my 250+ graduating class did not go to college or join a branch of the armed forces with the intention of later going to college. If you dislike school or you are not very academic, don't go to college. Go to trade school, enlist in the military, join the workforce, and so on. There is nothing wrong with being a plumber. If you own your own business, you might make a substantial amount of money. You'll certainly earn more than that person who spent $150,000 on tuition and now works in a coffee shop because they majored in some liberal arts field with no job opportunities.

[zooey]

do you guys have something like TAFE which is university for like chefs and builders and stuff but more hands on and tradie kind of stuff

Yeah, they're called Trade or Career schools here. I know several people that opt for that instead.

[20000_Posts]

Some dude at Six Flags the other day told me and my friends that College is a waste of time and we should go straight into the workforce.

Take it from the minimum wage dude at six flags to plan your future out.

[bros before hoes]

Depends on the career that you wish to pursue. Some careers don't necessarily require a person to have a certain level of higher education, while others demand it. I believe that if we want to progress as a country (U.S.A.) then higher education if very important, but that's on a different level. When it gets down to it, it all depends on the individual and the career that they wish to pursue.

[O hai im KAMIL]

If the career you're pursuing requires a higher education (mostly the sciences, medicine, legal, etc.) then yes, it's very important. However it's not for everyone, and it's certainly not a requirement for a job so if you're a more hands-on person then don't bother; work experience is more important than a higher education.

[William Howard Taft]

Some dude at Six Flags the other day told me and my friends that College is a waste of time and we should go straight into the workforce.

Take it from the minimum wage dude at six flags to plan your future out.

In all fairness I'm pretty sure that min-wage employees don't exist at Six Flags. Even the janitors earn like $11/hour. Otherwise the temptation to find a way to dip into the park's coffers are too high.

[20000_Posts]

Some dude at Six Flags the other day told me and my friends that College is a waste of time and we should go straight into the workforce.

Take it from the minimum wage dude at six flags to plan your future out.

In all fairness I'm pretty sure that min-wage employees don't exist at Six Flags. Even the janitors earn like $11/hour. Otherwise the temptation to find a way to dip into the park's coffers are too high.

It's actually tougher to get a job there then you'd think, even for just standing and hitting the ride start button. Around $8 or so during the summer.

 

I almost worked there. :P

[Egghebrecht]

if you don't have a degree at all and go to work for a boss you might just end up to be the guy who empties my bin and cleans my desk

if it is for working as an employee a degree is vitally important

 

there are exceptions to that rule but those are big exceptions

because people who don't have a degree clean my office for minimum wage...

 

A higher degree however isn't that important, it depends on what you (want to) do

for example here in Belgium they are craving for people with good technical skills, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, ...

and for nurses (all types)

 

all of those professions which get you your degree when you are 18 or 19 after specialization

[Phoenix Rider]

Depends on the person and course you pick. Some folks can do fine with a high school diploma because they're just that good. Others prefer to get certificates and diplomas in trades (plumbers, technicians, welders) rather than academic degrees because that's just the thing that matches who they are. Hell, some people can do fine as a shop owner or taxi driver without any of that.

 

What a person really needs most is an understanding and passion for something which they can turn into a stable future. Some people do this via a conventional degree whilst others pick less popular routes. Your education and choices can only be considered useful if you make something of it in the future. If you're still mooching off your parents at the age of 30 with nothing on you but a Fine Arts degree then yeah, that's pretty useless.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Phoenix Rider

[Un0]

It also depends a lot on what country you work in.

For me, it is practically essential to have a degree to get a job which pays more than a certain amount per month. That is unless you're exceptional right out of the gate. When you haven't accumulated enough good quality relevant work experience for your education not to matter, your educational qualifications are a very strong prop.

 

The worthiness of the skills gained in the degree itself, depending on major & institute of course, varies a lot. For instance, I work in graphic design. One could be self-taught and get good jobs due to the strength of one's portfolio. However, school still helps because fellow students and your teachers are possible contacts -- a network.

 

Gotta say that the more and more college graduates there are in a market, the less value it holds. Then there's the chase for even higher qualifications etc. I still wouldn't say a college degree is worthless though.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Un0