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Egghebrecht

Russia invading the Crimea in Ukraine?

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Professionals in Russian uniforms without insignia with heavy arms (kalasjnikov and better) have taken controle of multiple public and military airports in the Ukraine Crimea region. Russian helicopters and panzers have been spotted.

 

All reported by multiple reliable sources

 

http://www.telegraph...-blockaded.html

http://www.theguardi...ts-live-updates

http://news.yahoo.co...-033318395.html

http://www.abc.net.a...nvasion/5291986

 

Is the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, as was predicted by some to start when the Sochi winter olympics ended, really happening?

 

So far the clearly professional militia doesn't fly any official colours but it's quite clear nonetheless...

 

 

or in other words it looks like the South Ossetia war from 2008 all over again

Edited by Egghebrecht

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I thought about the 2008 thing as well, especially because it happened around the time of the Olympics.

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Professionals in Russian uniforms without insignia with heavy arms (kalasjnikov and better) have taken controle of multiple public and military airports in the Ukraine Crimea region. Russian helicopters and panzers have been spotted.

 

All reported by multiple reliable sources

 

http://www.telegraph...-blockaded.html

http://www.theguardi...ts-live-updates

http://news.yahoo.co...-033318395.html

http://www.abc.net.a...nvasion/5291986

 

Is the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, as was predicted by some to start when the Sochi winter olympics ended, really happening?

 

So far the clearly professional militia doesn't fly any official colours but it's quite clear nonetheless...

 

 

or in other words it looks like the South Ossetia war from 2008 all over again

 

Crimea has always been populated by a majority of ethnic Russians me being one of them. There is a huge crises right now as ethnic Tatars have been attacking ethnic Russians. Then in the West ultra nationalist group Privay Sektor which has been a major driving force behind the revolution have been burning synagogues and beating ethnic Russians.

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Crimea probably should be Russian tbh, I'm not sure if whether or not you'd connect it geographically or just have it floating around though.

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When you say Kalashnikovs and better.. aren't AK47s the weapon that basically EVERYONE has?

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The special forces there are not Russian. Crimea has its own special forces and then theres the Cossack militias.

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They are Russian naval infantry from the naval base at Sevastopol. Crimea has no military of its own.

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Honestly as much as it is a power grab for Russia in Crimea, US and Europe did same in Kiev. It was not an entire nation rising up against the president it was just one region and the US promoted the rebellion and destabilized a nation.

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The Russian military fields 74-era Kalashnikovs, there were plans to replace it with the AK-12 but those seem to be largely scrapped mainly because the 12 is garbage. Spetsnaz and other Russian SOF detachments tend toward the AN-94 and Century Series AK rifles, however. For the record, original series AKMs basically don't exist anymore, any remaining are museum pieces or collector's items. The oldest Kalashnikovs still kicking are the earliest examples of the Chinese-made Type 56s.

 

As for the situation itself, Putin is doing two things here: first, he is taking over and establishing the outstanding Russian national interest in Crimea, not invading; second, he is showing up President Obama because every contact Putin and Obama have shared dating back to the beginning of the Syria crisis (three years ago!!!) has been a political Rube Goldberg machine, a la House of Cards (yes, going there), that Putin has been arranging to make a fool out of Obama.

 

The goal of this is to essentially shame the US on the world stage (anyone want to challenge his success in that...?) in the hope that it either creates a power vacuum or it forces the world into an even stronger nonpolarity than before.

 

The endgame, of course, of everything Putin has done, is to begin re-establishing the Russian Empire. The expansionist side of this political goal will of course take years to achieve, if he even is capable of starting on it beyond the Ossetian conflict in 2008.

Edited by Thomas Jefferson

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Crimea probably should be Russian tbh, I'm not sure if whether or not you'd connect it geographically or just have it floating around though.

 

Crimea was originally part of Russia. It was gifted to the Ukraine in 1954(?) as a sign of friendship between the Soviet Union and Ukraine. At the time, the USSR thought it was a good idea because Ukraine was a part of the soviet union, and therefore Russia would technically still 'own' Crimea. They did not expect the fall of the SU and as such lost Crimea in the long run. My guess is that Putin is aiming to use the strife in the region to take back what was originally Russia's land, and gain access to a much desired area.

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Yeah I just wish there was some sort of referendum to decide this, would have made everyone happier and Russia would have gotten the same result.

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Well that escalated quickly. :/

 

Putin and the West were completely caught of guard by the revolution and they're making things up as they go along. That's a REALLY dangerous place for Ukraine to be in. One thing's certain though. Putin will do everything in his power to protect his Black Sea base and to show up the West for backing the revolution.

 

In related news, there's a worrying increased presence of far-right/neo-Nazi groups in the streets of Kiev.

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So today John Kerry said that in the 21st century you cannot invade a.nation on trumped up pretext. Is he talking about Ukraine or Iraq?

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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Ukraine and later the Ukrainian SSR only possesses Crimea due to a treaty signed in 1854, which is alarmingly Senkaku-y.

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So today John Kerry said that in the 21st century you cannot invade a.nation on trumped up pretext. Is he talking about Ukraine or Iraq?

 

He just walked into that one didn't he? >.<

 

Oh and Kerry's threatening a trade war. Let's see him try it with a good chunk of Europe's energy needs relying on Russian petroleum.

Edited by Phoenix Rider

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Europe is gonna be pissed.

 

Of course, if the OA wasn't so waffly on fracking, this wouldn't be a problem. In the long term, though, we'll win a trade war if it comes down to natural gas--the US is about to become the world's largest supplier.

Edited by Thomas Jefferson

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Honestly as much as it is a power grab for Russia in Crimea, US and Europe did same in Kiev. It was not an entire nation rising up against the president it was just one region and the US promoted the rebellion and destabilized a nation.

Except it wasn't a rebellion. Yanukovych was removed from power by the parliament in accordance with the Ukrainian Constitution. Russian propaganda keeps propagating the myth that some kind of coup has taken place, and this is a blatant falsehood, Yanukovich simply lost all support within the parliament.

Edited by theking1322

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The Ukrainian Parliament revoked that rule prior to impeaching him.

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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Ukraine and later the Ukrainian SSR only possesses Crimea due to a treaty signed in 1854, which is alarmingly Senkaku-y.

 

1954

was a gift from the ussr. at the time it didnt really mean anything because ukraine was part of the soviet union anyway, so it was like the ussr was just giving itself crimea. they did not expect the collapse of the soviet union. naturally, russia was not happy with all of the land it lost at the collapse. still arent. putin is an ultra-nationalist, and as an ex-KGB, undoubtedly still thinks in the soviet mindset.

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Honestly as much as it is a power grab for Russia in Crimea, US and Europe did same in Kiev. It was not an entire nation rising up against the president it was just one region and the US promoted the rebellion and destabilized a nation.

Except it wasn't a rebellion. Yanukovych was removed from power by the parliament in accordance with the Ukrainian Constitution. Russian propaganda keeps propagating the myth that some kind of coup has taken place, and this is a blatant falsehood, Yanukovich simply lost all support within the parliament.

 

A revolution took him out of power. Parliament made it official but they were forced by the growing violence of the revolution. Also quit saying that anything that is not reported by the Western media which although not equally corrupt as the Russian media is still fairly corrupt and is pushing an agenda. The new government made Ukrainian the sole official language of the nation big problem when close to half your nation only speaks Russian. There have been numerous beatings of ethnic Russians by Ukrainian nationalists for simply speaking Russian. That is not from the mouth of Putin but from my relatives that live there and witness it. Now ethnic Russians are not innocent and have beaten pro Western individuals too but the West helped destablize a nation not taking into account how fiercely nationalist both sides are.

The West has also primarily focused on the peaceful pro-Western protesters and have painted the police as thugs who kill innocents. The protesters were shooting cops dead in the street and were throwing Molotov on them... I am not pro Yanukovich in any way and I hope he is brought to justice but the new government is not taking into account the Eastern and Southern parts of the country. The West is criticizing Russia for "invading" Crimea the did not invade. The Crimean population asked for them to come and so they did. Is Putin taking advantage of the situation yes but who should decide what happens to Crimea and Eastern Ukraine? The West or Russia? Or maybe just maybe we let them vote. On March 30th Crimea will hold a referendum on to either stay part of Ukraine, seek independence, or join Russia. If they vote to join Russia, what right does DC have to tell them no?

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It looks like Crimea will vote to join Russia in a week or so. There is a referendum March 16, which may or may not be recognized by everybody, but I don't see why it shouldn't be respected. This is popular sovereignty at work, which is what the West is usually for.

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It looks like Crimea will vote to join Russia in a week or so. There is a referendum March 16, which may or may not be recognized by everybody, but I don't see why it shouldn't be respected. This is popular sovereignty at work, which is what the West is usually for.

 

The West is only for democracy if the people decide to be pro-West

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