Jump to content
Sal's RuneScape Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Sobend

I hope you didn't train defence on your pure

Recommended Posts

Beats getting pilejumped by 10+ people with dclaws any day, which was the primary complaint of PKing.

Not really because most clan wars were F2P, the whole clan ranking system was based in F2P. Very few clans PKed in P2P and the ones who did never risked 33M worth claws lol.

 

Don't go in singles then?

It doesn't matter. Imagine this situation. Clan A, clan B and clan C are all the the same level. Clan A and C are big rivals and try the best the can to ruin eachothers fun.

Clan A and B set up a fun war, clan C has no event planned but decides to show up to clans A and B war to crash and annoy the hell out of clan A. The war ends up being 60 clan A members versus 60 clan B members, with let's say 20 or 30 clan C crashers camping clan A members. It becomes 60 vs 90 basically even though clan B isn't actually teaming with clan C.

Now this used to happen quite often, and when it happened clan A would usually make an agreement with clan B to pause the war and team up to clear clan C's crashers, or clan B would just stop attacking clan A so clan A could focus on getting rid of clan C.

It's impossible to do now due to a simple fact, clan C can crash the fudge out of clan A because clan A's members are forced to have multi on at all times due to war rules and to be able to engage clan B, yet as soon as clan A+B team up to clear clan C all clan C's members have to do is swap to single. And bam, anti-crash attempt foiled. Clan C will have minimal loses and can change back to multi as soon as clan A and B start fighting again.

It's impossible to have fun and fair wars because of this stupid ability.

 

Basic abilities would hit around the same as a normal attack would pre-EoC. Thresh & Ultimates add extra strategy, but you're exaggerating their effects. If anything, EoC quadrupled strategy required as now you have to properly time abilities (when to escape a stun or use anticipation, when to use thresh/ults, etc.).

Right, except stun kills all possible strategy in multi PKing. No such a thing as strategy when you can't heal, move or do anything but eat damage from 30-40 people at the same time. Before EoC skilled tankers could do a great job wall hugging, dragging and tanking damage which was part of war strategy. Now it's not possible to do that, wars became some sort of let's see who can pile faster and kill the opponents faster fest. I mean are you kidding me? During the Bandos vs Arma event the two of us managed to 2-3 hit higher leveled players than us with better equipment, now imagine 30 people doing it.

It's not possible to escape a stun, you can get stunned pretty much right after escaping the first stun and you won't be able to escape that one. It doesn't even require timing from the attackers part or anything, with 30 people attacking you it's certain one will use a stun ability at the right time by pure luck.

 

Not true at all. I've seen people tank ~15+ people easily during warbands, with armour like Gano. Porters, phoenix necks, and food are all powerful tools to help tank massive damage.

You've seen people tanking disorganized PKers in welfare who don't know what the hell they're doing. None of them would last 10 seconds tanking a RoT or DI charge.

 

You mean don't have to learn how to PK again?

It means when given the choice to continue doing something they enjoy and swaping to something they don't enjoy with the bonus of having to learn how to do play again most sane people will go with former.

 

Fair enough - that's why you have oldschool I guess. Just keep that crap out of EoC.

 

Like I said, PvP was dying long before EoC.

But never died and now it's dead. But sure let's all pretend EoC didn't have anything to do with it lol!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Mic and I think we can all agree stuns are way OP. They should be removed from freeplay or they should act as stuns previously. Stuns should only hold the person in place, like the bind spells, not stop them from eating. Although I guess stuns can be avoided by using anticipate and freedom. Before big Pvp wars now I just put on anticipate before going out. Not sure if anticipate is freeplay.

 

I haven't pked in members pre-EOC since 2006, but DPS now in Pvp seems way too high. I can get dropped by somebody in 2 or 3 seconds. Imagine me trying to tank a clan - not going to happen. But like I said, I did not p2p player kill right before EOC, so the DPS part may have something to do with members.

 

In freeplay, where most of the clanning took place, EOC sucks a hellauva lot more. For one, two out of the three things Kamil mentioned (portents (you said porters, think you mean portents) and phoenix necklaces) are members only. Food is okay but it's not nearly as useful as those two for pking these days. Besides, lobsters and swordfish barely heal anything (maybe 900 for swordfish). And there's good evidence that freeplay clan pking is dead. There is only one real clan left, and that's Clan Europe. Clanning and Pking weren't doing hot before EOC but now they don't exist. I was watching a vid from pre EOC 2012 where there were ~40 people in low level edge on world 2. Then I watched one from the same guy a few months later and there were 5. I think even Jagex said eoc killed pvp.

 

It's very sad to see this, particularly because Jagex did not see this coming at all or did not even care. If Jagex no longer cares about Pvp or did not do enough tests to realize that EOC was going to destory Pvp then maybe Runescape is not my game anymore.

Edited by Sobend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I pked a little in 2011 and 2012 and was also semi-active on Pure Community in the time leading up to the implementation of EoC. They weren't as active as they were in their height, but they were faring well for the time being. They probably would be less active today if the old system stayed around, but EoC definitely caused a dropoff in popularity.

 

As for the clan world, it was also declining around then too. The top clans used to have 100-200 members, but then they only had 30-50. Even when I left my last clan in 2010 smaller clans were getting choked out of existence. Still, it was alive, and EoC caused a large (almost 100%) dropoff in activity. That's not to say nobody tried to adapt; adapt or die as they all say. But once it became clear that the combat system wasn't designed for large groups everybody had to give up. I think EoC introduced more strategy on the small scale (1v1) but removed almost any strategy that existed on very large scales. For one, at least in freeplay, it seems almost impossible to block an attack (get hit 0). Even when I am attacked by skeletons walking around the Wilderness they consistently hit me through full rune. If you can't block a majority of hits (let alone any), you stand no chance of tanking a large group of people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I miss the old PvP section. Always fun to make a new pking account and post it in our little circle of people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
all clan C's members have to do is swap to single

 

Umm I dunno if you know this but to switch to singles, you have to wait 10 seconds and can't perform any action. If you get attacked or start moving or eating during those 10 seconds the switch will cancel and you will remain in multi. The singles/multi option is a ton more useful than the negative aspects it carries, this way you can actually have a proper 1v1 without people interrupting you and whatnot.

 

It's not possible to escape a stun, you can get stunned pretty much right after escaping the first stun and you won't be able to escape that one.

 

Yes it is. Use freedom and that will automatically block all stuns for 6 seconds. When that is up, use anticipation and you will block stuns for a further 10 seconds. There will be a small gap where you will be stunned, but then freedom comes off cooldown and you can use it again. Again, this is proper strategy and it's clear people never learnt it because it's something they always complain about.

 

You mention that it's harder to tank loads of damage now than it is before. Whilst I disagree with this, let me ask you this: is a system where a player can stay alive for a long time whilst sustaining damage from 15+ people a good system? No way in hell. That person should get dropped immediately, there is no chance a player should be able to withstand tens of people attacking them simultaneously. If you've got ~5 people attacking then sure, but that's different.

 

You've seen people tanking disorganized PKers in welfare who don't know what the hell they're doing.

 

Lol okay. Leo would take offence to this statement. We may be in welfare gear but everyone's using tier-75 and above weapons, and we are incredibly organized in our efforts.

 

But sure let's all pretend EoC didn't have anything to do with it lol!

Let's all pretend the PKing scene was incredibly big and was one of the most crucial aspects of Runescape! Please, PKing is a minority by far so if a combat system that improves combat overall but "destroys" PKing is introduced then fine by me.

 

PKing was really fun back in the day and involved a lot of strategy didn't it? Clicking a person then waiting, then eating every time health was low, then speccing once in a while (unless you're F2P!). Such a thrilling system.

 

Food is okay but it's not nearly as useful as those two for pking these days. Besides, lobsters and swordfish barely heal anything (maybe 900 for swordfish).

The strongest F2P weapon is a Rune 2H (tier-50), so are portents etc. really necessary?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm I dunno if you know this but to switch to singles, you have to wait 10 seconds and can't perform any action. If you get attacked or start moving or eating during those 10 seconds the switch will cancel and you will remain in multi. The singles/multi option is a ton more useful than the negative aspects it carries, this way you can actually have a proper 1v1 without people interrupting you and whatnot.

Holy crap 10 seconds! During that time you can maybe kill two crashers if you're lucky. Before EoC you had multi areas making it much easier to anti-crash and actually do it efficiently. Now it's a bloody nightmare, I don't expect you to understand why because you never clanned, but there's a reason people gave it a try and decided it wasn't worth the effort.

 

Yes it is. Use freedom and that will automatically block all stuns for 6 seconds. When that is up, use anticipation and you will block stuns for a further 10 seconds. There will be a small gap where you will be stunned, but then freedom comes off cooldown and you can use it again. Again, this is proper strategy and it's clear people never learnt it because it's something they always complain about.

Holy crap again, 16 seconds free of stuns assuming you have both abilities ready to use and are able to actually use them before getting 1-2 hit by 30+ people, whoa that's amazing. Again this is something you'll never understand unless you actually experience it. The DPS is a lot higher now, especially in F2P + the fact stuns are so deadly take all the fun from clan wars. Why do you think the clan wars (the minigame/activity) worlds are dead too?

 

You mention that it's harder to tank loads of damage now than it is before. Whilst I disagree with this, let me ask you this: is a system where a player can stay alive for a long time whilst sustaining damage from 15+ people a good system? No way in hell. That person should get dropped immediately, there is no chance a player should be able to withstand tens of people attacking them simultaneously. If you've got ~5 people attacking then sure, but that's different.

Of course it is, because you see before EoC not everyone could last a crap load of tanking, it required ability, experience, luck, knowing what you're doing and perfect timing to do it right. You could still get 1-hit. Being a good tank required hard work, and people were respected for that. It was a good system because it was fun. Now it's not fun. You can say whatever the hell you want about it being fun in your opinion, but it's a fact clanning and PKing are dead. That says something no? Clearly most people disagree with you. Me included and you can't even say I didn't give it a try because I did. In a matter of fact I actually made more money PKing on EoC (my best kill was worth 60Mish) than pre-EoC and I still prefer the old system.

 

Lol okay. Leo would take offence to this statement. We may be in welfare gear but everyone's using tier-75 and above weapons, and we are incredibly organized in our efforts.

Well you and Leo can take all offense you want, it's a fact, sorry. I do not mean to offend but it's true. Warbands fcs are the modern RuneScape equivalents of NI, DK, Welfarers, PH and all the other random fcs. They could do some damage when they outnumbered their opponents greatly, but in an even fight (or a fight they outnumbered their opponents only slightly) they would always (ALWAYS) get trashed really bad.

 

Let's all pretend the PKing scene was incredibly big and was one of the most crucial aspects of Runescape! Please, PKing is a minority by far so if a combat system that improves combat overall but "destroys" PKing is introduced then fine by me.

Of course it was. It's what made the game popular. The good old days of the Sabre Clan, Gladiatorz and "The", RuneScape Dinasty and a lot more. PvP and clanning made this game what it is today. Highly doubt RuneScape would have lasted had it not been for the PvP aspect of the game and the people who helped make it popular.

It's true when EoC was introduced PvP and clanning were shadows of their former selves as I and others in this topic have said before, but that's because RuneScape itself is a shadow of it's former self. The game is dying, doesn't matter if it's better overall than it was before, it's still dying and PvP is (or was because it's dead now) dying with it.

 

PKing was really fun back in the day and involved a lot of strategy didn't it? Clicking a person then waiting, then eating every time health was low, then speccing once in a while (unless you're F2P!). Such a thrilling system.

Required about as much strategy as it requires now. I use absolutely no strategy when PvPing and I still get as many (probably even more) kills as I did pre-EoC. It's just button mashing. The difference is that before it was more fun, you can say it's a matter of opinion all you want again but it's a fact PvP and clanning existed before EoC (and still exist in old school) and now they don't.

 

You see it doesn't matter if EoC was the best fudgeing update in the history of RuneScape. If people don't like it and are not willing to adapt how good the update is becomes irrelevant. EoC killed PKing and clanning and this is a fact. People disliked it so much they prefered to start all over again in Old School than adapt to EoC. You can't even say it's a matter of lazyness because maxing na account in Old School takes longer than just learning how to play in EoC. EoC was clearly not designed for multi combat, like Sobend (or was it Shooter?) mentioned in his post Jagex admitted they made mistakes that killed PvP, this is a god damn fact, not even sure what you're trying to defend here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course it was. It's what made the game popular.

Nope, not even close. Questing, socialising, skilling, PvMing are all far more popular activities. PvP had a small and solid crowd but don't overstate its size.

 

EoC killed PKing and clanning and this is a fact.

EoC killed an activity that a small group of players partook in. Sacrifice the few to save the many.

 

not even sure what you're trying to defend here.

I'm defending my anti-legacy stance. If you want to PK the old way, then go on old school Runescape, where you actually have a semi-active PKing community. Hundreds of development hours have gone into this fiddlesticks legacy update just to appease a bunch of nostalgic people who can't get used to EoC when they could've used the time, money, and resources on something worthwhile; like actually advancing the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Mic that the warbands fcs are just really unorganized compared to previous clans. Even in the one I frequent we don't have a consistent body of members. There are some good pkers yes, like Leo, but the vast majority are just people in it for the free xp. If you sent them matched opts against a clan as organized as the old DI or DS it wouldn't have gone too well.

 

By the way, PKing for the first few years was definitely a major activity in Runescape. Far more important than PvM for sure. I mean, it's hard to say that killing the Kbd and Kalphite Queen were more important than PKing. I agree that PKing wasn't the most important part of Runescape (I'd have to say character progression was), but it assured that there was a part of the game everybody would like.

Edited by Sobend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I think until 2008 (the Wilderness was removed) or so PKing far exceeded skilling and PvM in popularity. Most players today would have been in the minority back then (at least as they currently play). I'm not saying Runescape needs pking, but it sure would be nice and probably would contribute to the overall health of the game.

 

I'm defending my anti-legacy stance.

but yeah I'm anti-legacy too, Jagex needs to stop their combat system experimentation. The funny thing is nobody wanted them to do this, everybody who wanted the old combat system in 2012 plays 07 now.

Edited by Shooter585

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, not even close. Questing, socialising, skilling, PvMing are all far more popular activities. PvP had a small and solid crowd but don't overstate its size.

Are you being serious? lol

RuneScape classic/early RS2 were very basic games with little you could do in them, the whole RuneScape classic era was based around clanning. Back in the day pretty much every dedicated and well know RuneScaper was part of a clan, The Sabres, The Messiahs, BlacKnights or Gladz just for example. The whole game revolved around PvP and clanning basically.

The early days of RS2 were pretty much the same thing, quests and skills started improving but PvP and clanning were still far more popular. PvM wasn't even a thing until like the release of GWD, all the bosses like KQ and KBD were boring and hard as shizzle. Far more people PKed than bossed. Clanning and PvP only started dwindling around 2005 and only in like 2007/2008 like Shooter pointed out was surpassed by skilling and bossing, and much thanks to updates that made lots of PKers and clanners quit. I know quite a few people that quit around that time and never returned, my best RuneScape friend and co-founder of a clan I led included.

 

EoC killed an activity that a small group of players partook in. Sacrifice the few to save the many.

So? That doesn't mean we PKers have to like it, and it sure as hell doesn't mean we're not allowed to miss the good old days of pre-EoC. I'm not sure why everytime someone like me says something along the lines of "man I miss pre-EoC PKing" immediately gets barraged with posts stating how much better EoC is, how necessary of an update it was and how we have to get over it and how it is all our fault PKing is dead because we choose not to adapt, ignoring the fact we actually gave it a try and attemped to adapt and in the end decided it wasn't fun nor worth our time.

 

I'm defending my anti-legacy stance. If you want to PK the old way, then go on old school Runescape, where you actually have a semi-active PKing community. Hundreds of development hours have gone into this fiddlesticks legacy update just to appease a bunch of nostalgic people who can't get used to EoC when they could've used the time, money, and resources on something worthwhile; like actually advancing the game.

I honestly don't give a shizzle about the updates Jagex is making to EoC combat, it won't bring PKing and clanning back.

I made a simples post stating I missed the good old days of pre-EoC clanning and PKing, and even made sure to explain I had nothing against EoC and simply preferred the old combat system and missed what were in my opinion the most fun parts of the game: PKing and clanning.

Not sure who this update is supposed to appease, the PKers and clanners who didn't quit moved to old school and highly doubt they're interested in returning to the main game. The ones who quit have probably moved on by now. So I'm pretty sure they aren't making these changes because of the old PvP and clan community asked for them, blaming us for it when we don't even care is immature as fudge. If anything blame the skillers and PvMers who still play the game, they are not us nor they have anything to do with us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines and Privacy Policy.