The Wilderness is to be Removed

[Sobend]

And this time, people celebrate it!

In Runescape 3, Jagex recently announced the wilderness would be "opt-in" PvP, which--from what I can tell--only people who want to fight others will be attackable. This means the wilderness has essentially turned into some type of duel arena. The "road map" revealing this is below, with an implementation date in the autumn of 2022. I

I've never seen better evidence of the changing game than this. I can't help remember the return of the wilderness in 2011 and how it was the return to normal until EOC. Many of you do not play as frequently -- what are your thoughts?

The newspost on the subject is here: https://secure.runescape.com/m=newsmeet-the-new-ep--roadmap-revealed#_ga=2.37918883.1295108124.1651021041-1465116817.1651021041.

(It only appears in the picture).

 

 

[Chaoss]

Opt-in PvP sounds like the type of Wilderness I would like. I never was in it much in RS3, but I spent a good bit of time in it in OSRS. I don't know if RS3 balances the Wilderness as high risk/high reward like OSRS does, but I'd imagine any "Wilderness bosses" or activities in RS3 would need to be rebalanced if the threat of PvP was eliminated. 

Interested to see if this has any impact on OSRS. That game just had a huge PvP poll fail yesterday. 

[Guitarguy]

boooooo

[Yuanrang]

I think the major selling point to the Wilderness was that it was an area with clear benefits, and a risk attached to it. If you crossed the border, especially after they created the ditch, you had mentally prepared yourself for PvP. There were clearly benefits in traversing deep into the Wilderness, but for the most part, it was all about accepting the risk.
 

If they remove the risk, then I do not see the point in it being called the Wilderness anymore, or even it being a PVP area. I think the Wilderness was a fairly wonderful area, because it was so unique to RuneScape. Its removal to combat Real-World-Trading was such a massive blow to the identity of RuneScape for players like me that craved PvP, and it seems to me that JaGEx never really knew what to do with the zone. Something like this just reinforces that belief.

[Fatalysm]

  Agree with Yuan; the area had clear benefits that had risks attached to getting those benefits. Old School Runescape still has this, and it works. I recently went to the wilderness agility course and got some significant XP gains but was player killed about 40 minutes in.

At this point, Runescape 3 is so broken that these new changes aren't anything. The changes they made over a decade ago dismantled and alienated their players. Since then, they've continued down that path with no real effort to fix anything since Old School.

You can abuse bonds for gp. I understand that it was a tactic to stop real-world trading, but compared to their absolute hard no stance. It's allowing players to pay to win.

The gambling game in RS3, allows you to buy all your XP from lamps or get stored bonus XP or many other perks. You can buy your way to 99 with lamps. That's so far removed from what they wanted at the start.

EOC changed combat significantly and alienated players. You learn and grow with a style, and they change it, and now you have this weird state of play where some players are full EOC, some play old style, or you have a mix.

The fact that I am levelled up 80 in dungeoneering and divination, 63 in invention and 60 in archaeology should tell that the game is broken. I couldn't tell you anything much about dungeoneering. Im 63 in invention for some reason. I know very little about it. Divination, I think I spammed the levels up somewhere with bonus XP. Archaeology I levelled when it came out, but again, I can't tell you anything about that skill.

The sad part is, I probably have around 250k bonus experience in most skills. I went to the gambling thing to test out my theory. I went and spent money on the game, and when I realised how broken the game was, I stopped playing. There's no fun in a game that can be cheesed like that.

I say that the wilderness changes mean nothing. Opt PVP is fine, but the game is already broken at it's core.

[axis]

On 5/5/2022 at 9:02 PM, Fatalysm said:

  Agree with Yuan; the area had clear benefits that had risks attached to getting those benefits. Old School Runescape still has this, and it works. I recently went to the wilderness agility course and got some significant XP gains but was player killed about 40 minutes in.

At this point, Runescape 3 is so broken that these new changes aren't anything. The changes they made over a decade ago dismantled and alienated their players. Since then, they've continued down that path with no real effort to fix anything since Old School.

You can abuse bonds for gp. I understand that it was a tactic to stop real-world trading, but compared to their absolute hard no stance. It's allowing players to pay to win.

The gambling game in RS3, allows you to buy all your XP from lamps or get stored bonus XP or many other perks. You can buy your way to 99 with lamps. That's so far removed from what they wanted at the start.

EOC changed combat significantly and alienated players. You learn and grow with a style, and they change it, and now you have this weird state of play where some players are full EOC, some play old style, or you have a mix.

The fact that I am levelled up 80 in dungeoneering and divination, 63 in invention and 60 in archaeology should tell that the game is broken. I couldn't tell you anything much about dungeoneering. Im 63 in invention for some reason. I know very little about it. Divination, I think I spammed the levels up somewhere with bonus XP. Archaeology I levelled when it came out, but again, I can't tell you anything about that skill.

The sad part is, I probably have around 250k bonus experience in most skills. I went to the gambling thing to test out my theory. I went and spent money on the game, and when I realised how broken the game was, I stopped playing. There's no fun in a game that can be cheesed like that.

I say that the wilderness changes mean nothing. Opt PVP is fine, but the game is already broken at it's core.

People can say "lamp your way to 99", but in reality, doing so would cost several thousand dollars. One person actually tested this (youtube user " A Friend") and it cost $13,300 to do what you suggested (1-99 with only lamps) It is simply ridiculous to suggest any casual player can afford to do this or even bother to do so.

As for bonds, one bond is around 52m GP right now. If you want to get a top tier bow (for instance, serens bow) it is around 2b. That would be around 38 bonds. 1 bond is $10 AUD. So if you wanted to buy your way to a top tier bow, you'd be spending over $300 just for one piece. Nevermind the rest of the equipment you will need. 

Also, bonds and lamps don't complete the quests for unlocks you need, they don't do the achievements for you, and they don't teach you the fundamental, basic things you need to use those skills. Nor do they teach you how to do bosses. 

Lastly... How does this even affect other people? The max level is still 99. (or 120 for some skills) The best weapon is the same for everyone. There is no advantage for a person who uses keys in treasure hunter (except for a few purely cosmetic items).

A big issue currently is that server population is too low. The wilderness rework may help that. People will login just to check it out. Also, I think they need to close off some of the RS3 servers. There are simply a lot of servers and most of them are only 40 players logged in. They need to add new content and expansions as well.  

At any rate, I look forward to this new rework. I haven't even run past someone in the wilderness for weeks. It's totally dead (pardon the pun) and something needs to happen there to get people to go.

[Fatalysm]

Firstly I'd like to say welcome and thank-you for taking the time to post and challenge my opinions! Lovely to see a new face.

 

2 hours ago, axis said:

People can say "lamp your way to 99", but in reality, doing so would cost several thousand dollars. One person actually tested this (youtube user " A Friend") and it cost $13,300 to do what you suggested (1-99 with only lamps) It is simply ridiculous to suggest any casual player can afford to do this or even bother to do so.

Regardless of cost, you can buy XP and it's given out pretty easily. Especially in stark contrast to OSRS which is much closer to what RuneScape was before things like squeal of fortune and removal of the wilderness. I'm perfectly aware that it would cost an insane amount of money to buy / receive levels from lamps and bonus XP. Doesn't change the fact that by introducing those features, you are creating a way to boost yourself, pay your way up the levels. Just because a casual player can or cannot afford it or are bothered or not, doesn't mean the it should be in the game.

I have over 1m in bonus xp and some of those stats are levelled and I didn't spends thousands.

 

2 hours ago, axis said:

As for bonds, one bond is around 52m GP right now. If you want to get a top tier bow (for instance, serens bow) it is around 2b. That would be around 38 bonds. 1 bond is $10 AUD. So if you wanted to buy your way to a top tier bow, you'd be spending over $300 just for one piece. Nevermind the rest of the equipment you will need.  

I must admit, I haven't played RS3 in a long while and that does make it less appealing to use bonds for GP. Referring back to my previous argument though, you shouldn't be able to do it in the first place. The stance from Jagex was that RWT is against the rules and you will be banned. But now, as a double standard you can real world trade. Take your sight away from the top tier bows and look at what you've said, 1 bond is 52m. That's a stupid amount of money. Perhaps not for seasoned players, but 52m is still up there.

 

2 hours ago, axis said:

Also, bonds and lamps don't complete the quests for unlocks you need, they don't do the achievements for you, and they don't teach you the fundamental, basic things you need to use those skills. Nor do they teach you how to do bosses. 

They don't, but they can pay for everything you need and give you the stat requirements, yes you need to put in some effort to get anywhere in the game. I'm not really arguing that the game doesn't have substance that needs to be learned, I'm arguing that those specific elements of the game make it pay to win, they make it easier by a long stretch and although the game isn't set out to be competitive, using those functions does give you an advantage over others.

 

2 hours ago, axis said:

Lastly... How does this even affect other people? The max level is still 99. (or 120 for some skills) The best weapon is the same for everyone. There is no advantage for a person who uses keys in treasure hunter (except for a few purely cosmetic items). 

In a broader sense, it cheapens the achievements people work hard to get. It affects the grand exchange and it's pricing. It allows people to gain an unfair advantage with GP. The best weapon is the same for everyone, that's why it should be hard to get, no? If it doesn't matter, then let's change all the prices of everything to 1gp.

 

2 hours ago, axis said:

A big issue currently is that server population is too low. The wilderness rework may help that. People will login just to check it out. Also, I think they need to close off some of the RS3 servers. There are simply a lot of servers and most of them are only 40 players logged in. They need to add new content and expansions as well.   

At any rate, I look forward to this new rework. I haven't even run past someone in the wilderness for weeks. It's totally dead (pardon the pun) and something needs to happen there to get people to go. 

Just out of interest, why do you think the server population is too low?

Edited May 31, 2022 by Fatalysm

[axis]

23 hours ago, Fatalysm said:

Firstly I'd like to say welcome and thank-you for taking the time to post and challenge my opinions! Lovely to see a new face.

It's nice to meet you too!

Regardless of cost, you can buy XP and it's given out pretty easily. Especially in stark contrast to OSRS which is much closer to what RuneScape was before things like squeal of fortune and removal of the wilderness. I'm perfectly aware that it would cost an insane amount of money to buy / receive levels from lamps and bonus XP. Doesn't change the fact that by introducing those features, you are creating a way to boost yourself, pay your way up the levels. Just because a casual player can or cannot afford it or are bothered or not, doesn't mean the it should be in the game.

I just want to clarify first, I personally don't like treasure hunter. I think there should NOT be a directly get XP (eg, lamps) like this. I'd love if they removed that, (but I think we both know Jagex will never stop milking the cash cow in that regard.) I don't mind the bonus xp quite so much, maybe if the amount recieved was less or had a cap. As you do still have to work for it.

I have over 1m in bonus xp and some of those stats are levelled and I didn't spends thousands.

To get some smaller gains, of course one does not need to spend a lot. People can also use their daily keys and stack XP/ Bonus XP onto a specific skill (divination seems popular.) 

I must admit, I haven't played RS3 in a long while and that does make it less appealing to use bonds for GP. Referring back to my previous argument though, you shouldn't be able to do it in the first place. The stance from Jagex was that RWT is against the rules and you will be banned. But now, as a double standard you can real world trade. Take your sight away from the top tier bows and look at what you've said, 1 bond is 52m. That's a stupid amount of money. Perhaps not for seasoned players, but 52m is still up there.

I agree, especially for a returning player, having a small boost to your bank is quite handy. I both like and dislike the bonds feature. I think it makes the inflation worse when people can get sudden quick stacks of cash and buy things in bulk. But, I like that it offers players a path to get members or other features for free. Also, for iron characters with a main, it means the player doesn't have to pay real money twice to get membership on both accounts. It's worth nothing maybe, that it doesn't just create GP out of no-where. Someone is still buying that bond on the GE with their own GP. 

With regards to real world trading, the main difference is that RWT is usually obtained by botting, exploits, scamming... By purchasing from 3rd party gold sellers, it only encourages those people to keep doing that.

Plus, the money goes to some shady overseas people, at least if you spend at Jagex it goes to pay the staff. And (hopefully) keep getting new content. 

I (personally) don't think 52m is THAT much, more of a middle tier amount of money. It's possible to earn around half a million or more an hour on f2p even as a mostly new player. The prices of bonds used to be a lot lower though. I think 1 or two years ago, they were only 22m each. Inflation just keeps driving it up further. 

They don't, but they can pay for everything you need and give you the stat requirements, yes you need to put in some effort to get anywhere in the game. I'm not really arguing that the game doesn't have substance that needs to be learned, I'm arguing that those specific elements of the game make it pay to win, they make it easier by a long stretch and although the game isn't set out to be competitive, using those functions does give you an advantage over others.

It makes it easier, for certain. If you can just start out with some decent stats, you can jump into a lot of content right away.

I will just say though "Pay to Win" implies there is an advantage over others. That if you spend a lot of money you are guaranteed to win.

But, the maximum level is still 99/120. The best weapon is still the best weapon. Some weapons are untradeable and can't be bought. There is no advantage of a player who pays vs a player who doesn't pay. 

Someone who pays may get to end game faster, but they're still on an equal playing field with other people.

In a broader sense, it cheapens the achievements people work hard to get. It affects the grand exchange and it's pricing. It allows people to gain an unfair advantage with GP. The best weapon is the same for everyone, that's why it should be hard to get, no? If it doesn't matter, then let's change all the prices of everything to 1gp.

I agree that it does cheapen achievements. A lot to the people who pay to get their levels. There is no satisfaction in the numbers going up automatically with no effort. None at all. 

Just out of interest, why do you think the server population is too low?

Well for instant, current time is 1:42pm EST. As is usual, the most popular world is 84 which has around 1.2k. It's very rare for that to ever be full (most recent was during DXP last week)

After that, there are a few worlds with some decent numbers around 500-800. But over 50% of the worlds have 200 or less. Several worlds have only 11 people logged in. 
Interestingly, most of these low population worlds are F2P worlds. The highest population F2P world is currently only 292 people.

Anyway, my issue with these low numbers is that you can run around the main towns and it is pretty much deserted. The worldfeels empty. For new players this is not a good experience. For experienced players it is lonely.
 

I don't know how this forum works very well, so I added my replies to the quote above. It is nice to meet someone though, who is happy to discuss things nicely and respectfully. Sometimes people are just unwilling to even talk about it, and it's a bit sad.  Sorry to ramble though. It's 3:49am here and I'm getting a bit over-tired second wind weirdness leaking through. lol 

[Sobend]

As for the server population, the issue is that the servers are so bad that they frequently do not work at a previously reasonable number. The entire game needs to be recoded.

[Adam?]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:48 PM, Yuanrang said:

I think the major selling point to the Wilderness was that it was an area with clear benefits, and a risk attached to it. If you crossed the border, especially after they created the ditch, you had mentally prepared yourself for PvP. There were clearly benefits in traversing deep into the Wilderness, but for the most part, it was all about accepting the risk.
 

If they remove the risk, then I do not see the point in it being called the Wilderness anymore, or even it being a PVP area. I think the Wilderness was a fairly wonderful area, because it was so unique to RuneScape. Its removal to combat Real-World-Trading was such a massive blow to the identity of RuneScape for players like me that craved PvP, and it seems to me that JaGEx never really knew what to do with the zone. Something like this just reinforces that belief.

How much Wilderness PVP actually happens anymore in RS3?

[Sobend]

There’s still activity. Not much but it’s still there. Dissentor still does PvP.

Its certainly not 2006 level but they are still removing a major aspect of gameplay for some players.

[Yuanrang]

On 6/10/2022 at 2:52 AM, Adam? said:

How much Wilderness PVP actually happens anymore in RS3?

I mean, you could have asked that in RS2 as well, and the answer would have been "Only in certain areas or for certain purposes". Even just prior to them removing the Wilderness and having Bounty Hunting as their feature, there were some places like the green dragons or the Rune Rocks where you could find frequent activity regardless of world, but beyond that, it was mostly on specific worlds that were designated for certain types of PVP.

[Adam?]

On 6/12/2022 at 3:42 PM, Yuanrang said:

I mean, you could have asked that in RS2 as well, and the answer would have been "Only in certain areas or for certain purposes". Even just prior to them removing the Wilderness and having Bounty Hunting as their feature, there were some places like the green dragons or the Rune Rocks where you could find frequent activity regardless of world, but beyond that, it was mostly on specific worlds that were designated for certain types of PVP.

Idk I had wildy slayer tasks and pkers were still a threat the whole time